Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

Yeah, it's just too much of a mirror i just saw in a recent newbie game.

Link

por favor

But what's up with unvoting me Vi? You always think i'm scum or SK..

So... you...

WANT

me to vote you?
And the time I thought you were an SK, you were... um... an Unnecessarily Compulsive Vigilante Neutral Survivor.

Cruciare, could you elaborate on TMJ's apparent newbishness?
Is jammer still an issue?
Is it more important to hear from "certain people" or to hammer?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 14&start=0
Arxym is mirror here.


I do want you to vote me Vi. It makes me feel loved. "How sweet it is, to be loved by you...".

After that play, if i don't die today i die tomorrow or the next day. What's important is the hunting i can manage before my wax is all melted and my flame put out.

This is where i would put in a few words for people besides TMJ, but no one really sticks out. I should do a reread, but replacing into dead man walking slots really puts a damper on the motivation for those sorts of things.

[imaginality]

popsofctown sees the position he replaced into as 'dead man walking', but I don't think it was quite as bad as that. It makes me wonder if replacing into a scum role has coloured his perspective on the case against him. Combined with his focusing only on the obvious target aside from himself, which seems like he's trying purely to shift the lynch rather than to offer wider reads on other players, his play so far makes me feel better about lynching him.

Unvote

Vote: popsofctown

L-1.

[DeathRowKitty]

I think someone should hammer and we should be done with it. Yes, we're only on page 6, but discussion has stalled as we all focus in on the same couple of people. Plus, they've been a very productive 6 pages IMO and I think that coupled with the reveal of alignments will give us enough for an informed Day 2.

[sigma]

unvote

I'm not comfortable with how this lynch is going down. Part of that's my fault for not commenting on pops yet. He'scertainly been apathetic, but this statement in particular looks very townish to me:

I understand if i get lynched here, but i want my "townie time capsule" message (there ought to be a name for those) to be "Lynch TMJ". "

I mean, maybe he's scum and trying to distance himself from TMJ, but where's the gain in making this statement as scum?

@pops: If you're town, do some scum-hunting. Your position certainly isn't irrecoverable, and you still win or lose with the town whether you get lynched today or not. I'm willing to look at lynching someone else, but only if your actions show that you deserve not to be lynched.

[popsofctown]

8. Why are you filling this survey out?
just wanna see people's response

Is acting without a very clearly defined protown agenda. That's a red flag.


I'll try to do what scumunting i can but guys, it's a 6 page game.

[Vi]

@pops: Okay, I'm Bad At Mafia.
Could you winnow it down to a post or two if it's such a mirror?
Sorry for being a pain over this, but it's hard to "get into" a game that I'm not in.

I mean, maybe he's scum and trying to distance himself from TMJ, but where's the gain in making this statement as scum?

AtE.

I'm not taking pops 129 seriously.

[sigma]

It could be an AtE, I guess, but he's not coming off that way at all to me.

I highly doubt pops will change my mind about YC.

That said,

Unvote: James.Denholm; Vote: popsofctown

His first post after pops comes in is a vote that puts pops at L-1. If Y.C was so suspicious that pops couldn't possibly change your mind, then why weren't you voting him to begin with? Why put pops at L-1 when he's barely had a chance to talk, much less claim his role or do some decent scum-hunting?

Vote: Jammer

[James.Denholm]

Also, jammer's vote on you wasn't random.

But then what was it? jammer?

Generally, I've got a fair scum reading on Y.C, now popsofctown. Incredibly strong tunnelling, willing to lynch a townie on policy, the whole mod involvement thing, accusing votes of being pushed, and now dropping out of the game and letting someone else take over. That said, my gut says no, that perhaps he was just excitable. It will be interesting to see which is right.

Do you think YC is scum or not?

Damn, there goes my attempt to stay on the fence.

I believe that Y.C/pops is not scum. I believe that Y.C was most likely a townie that just got it wrong, and perhaps played a rather different game than we did. You know, he just got those blinkers on, and refused to see anything else...

[popsofctown]

Mmkay, Reck, you seems to be only looking at idividual facts....and ignoring them when they're all together. Somethings on its own might not be enough, yes, but whn paired with other things...a case forms.
Your disregard for this has made me suspicious of you.
Also, I may be misinterphiritng what you said, and correct me of I'm wrong, but...why shouldn't people post their opinions? There's facts, sure, but opinions are what drive people to vote. They're what weed out the scum from the town, in the end. In debate class, the facts are important to swaying the judges. But if you don't use your own opinions, your own drive to sway them, they won't declare your side the winner in the end.

Vote: xRECKONERx

Because without opinions on the facts, the facts are useless.

Probably should have gotten a link instead, but hey, i like to think that i don't care enough to construct that and ought to have lived here long enough to have trust.



Also

I'm not taking pops seriously.

Fixed.

[Porkens]

and now we policy lynch afatchic.

unvote; vote: afatchic

[Cruciare]

focusing only on the obvious target aside from himself

This was also the main reason why Pops' first post (my goodness, and his subsequent ones too!) didn't sit well with me.

Cruciare, could you elaborate on TMJ's apparent newbishness?
Is jammer still an issue?
Is it more important to hear from "certain people" or to hammer?

1) Newbishness isn't quite the right idea. As you should have seen from his play so far, his behaviour is generally unhelpful and somewhat 'ignorant', if I may use that term. I'm basing this off the fact that I've seen people who act almost exactly like him before, and in most cases it was not indicative of their alignment. Look, you called him out for saying something about people not being convinced. I don't know what he meant. I don't think any of us knew what he meant. Even after questioning him, do we yet know what he meant? Basically, I won't be looking too deep into his words, because for players like him words aren't a great help. However, comments like 82 that stand out in a bad way I will consider if Pops flips town.

2) I 'd rather not comment too much on anyone until after Pops has been lynched and his alignment revealed, but I'll tell you the truth about what I think of Jammer: he's been an issue ever since his third post. Let's just say that if for some wacky reason we couldn't get Pops lynched, I would be fine with lynching Jammer instead.

3) I'm hoping that most people currently voting for Pops don't suddenly have a change of heart, in which case Pops can be lynched anytime. With this assumption, it is more important to hear from certain people. It's funny that you make it sound I have some kind of hidden agenda; by certain people I meant those who had yet to post ever since Pops replaced in. =P

Vote: popsofctown

for L-2. Afatchic, please get your ass here.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'll tell you the truth about what I think of Jammer: he's been an issue ever since his third post.

What did you think of Jammer's second post? I've been watching him ever since then because I thought his answers sounded too much like he was trying not to step on any toes.

[Cruciare]

I'll tell you the truth about what I think of Jammer: he's been an issue ever since his third post.

What did you think of Jammer's second post? I've been watching him ever since then because I thought his answers sounded too much like he was trying not to step on any toes.

Haha, I didn't really pay much attention to people's survey answers (cause you know, that would be quite hypocritical of me). I only went back to read that after his next few posts didn't sit right with me, so I guess even if I did see some kind of careful treading on those grounds, it would be from a biased point of view. Maybe it's just my inability to properly interpret it, but I stand by my view that people's answers to surveys don't actually tell much. Only one particular question was worth noting people's answers to IMO, though I won't say which one yet.

[Col.Cathart]

Ho hum... Not really sure, what to think about pops now... He is backing up the case of TMJ, but in a 'Holy Shit! I must save myself, vote for second person with fair amount of votes.' manner, rather than decent scumhunting. Very not convincing arguments. Also, I don't see anything about anyone else. Who's scummy to you, except from TMJ, pops?

I'll wait some more, because for now, on scale from completely pro-town to obv scum, his rating are somewhere near 'Banana!'

Porkens: I understand the point about Afatchic, but previously, you tried to convince me and other TMJ voters to vote Y.C/pops for a quick lynch. What happened? You don't want to lynch pops anymore?

Also, slight FoS for Imaginality and DeathRowKitty. Their latest posts (L-1 vote, and 'someone hammer him now!') looks like an attempt to speedlynch pops.

[sigma]

Mod: Prod afatchic, please?

Done.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, slight FoS for Imaginality and DeathRowKitty. Their latest posts (L-1 vote, and 'someone hammer him now!') looks like an attempt to speedlynch pops.

Honestly, we've gotten pretty much nowhere the past couple of RL days. I figured we'd get more out of seeing responses to a request for a quicklynch (and seeing if someone was willing to hammer) than we would from prolonging the day.

Post 4 - Post 90 were August 29-31, the first three days of the game. Post 91 - Post 134 were September 1 - September 3. We're down to less than 15 posts per RL day and only a few of those are moving the game forward.

I still think a quicklynch wouldn't be so bad.

[RedCoyote]

You Gotta Problem?
Any of you'se gotta problem, let me hear it
By Vito "Fat Lips" Tessitore
LYNCHEM TRIBUTE OPINIONS PAGE
Sep. 4th, 2009, 11:18AM

So I am walking down the street the other day, minding my own business, and bing, I'm asked to fill out a survey for walking down a street now? "Fuhggediboutit", I told 'em, "I don't need to answer no survey nothin'" Whaddaya gotta do to prove your innocence now days? So I go to meetings at night, okay, so I gotta gun, okay, so I just moved into town, okay, so I don't pay taxes, okay, so I don't like cops no how, okay, ya gotta make a federal case about it now?...

---

Vote Count 1.3

• popsofctown

  (

  Vi

  - Tjoe Min Ja - DeathRowKitty -

  Porkens

  -

  sigma

  - jammer - imaginality - Cruciare)
  
  
  Tjoe Min Ja
  (

  imaginality

  - Col.Cathart - popsofctown)
  
  
  jammer
  (

  Cruciare

  - sigma)
  
  
  afatchic
  (

  jammer

  - Porkens)
  
  
  Vi
  (

  Y.C

  )
  
  
  James.Denholm
  (

  jammer

  )
  
  
  DeathRowKitty
  (

  James.Denholm

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (afatchic - James.Denholm - Vi)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

^^ The flavor had me doing this:

Thank you

[sigma]

Honestly, we've gotten pretty much nowhere the past couple of RL days. I figured we'd get more out of seeing responses to a request for a quicklynch (and seeing if someone was willing to hammer) than we would from prolonging the day.

[...]

I still think a quicklynch wouldn't be so bad.

Can you elaborate on that last bit? Do you think we'll get more information out of lynching pops now then if we lynch the most suspicious person a week from now? I'm skeptical that that's the case, honestly.

[DeathRowKitty]

Right now, most of the focus is on pops and TMJ. Pops keep fluctuating between L-3, L-2, and L-1 as people vote and unvote him. People discuss TMJ, a bunch of people ask him questions, and he pops in, gives responses that tell us essentially nothing, and we wait for him to pop back in. Is this really getting us anywhere?

Calling for a quicklynch does a few things for us:

1. It gets reactions from people who agree and disagree that pops should be quicklynched
2. If someone decides to quicklynch from my request, it gives us a better read on that person (and on me for calling for a quicklynch
3. It prevents players from losing interest in a game that isn't going anywhere

We have 7 players ready to lynch pops. Waiting isn't getting us anywhere.

[Vi]

*stuff about how TMJ is scummy and useless*

*advertisement for quicklynching pops*

I'm not quite following this progression.

[DeathRowKitty]

Seriously, read TMJ's posts and try and tell me questioning him further is going to help us. If you want to keep questioning him, I won't (and can't) stop you, but to me, he looks more like a scapegoat for keeping pops alive.

If pops were at L-1 and i wasn't voting yet, I would hammer, even at 6 pages in.

[Vi]

but to me,

[TMJ]

looks more like a scapegoat for keeping pops alive.

In saying this you are implicitly assuming TMJ-Town and pops-scum. Correct?

I would like to hear more from imaginality, Porkens, and afatchic about the stalemate going on here.

With that said,

Vote: afatchic

(L-5)
I know he's been onsite.

[sigma]

Here's why I'm against a hypothetical hammer of pops right now:

1. Wouldn't we want to at least hear a claim from pops before lynch? This is my first closed-setup game, so I could be wrong about this.
2. TMJ isn't the only other person we can question. At least three people have expressed that they find jammer suspicious (me, Cruciare, Porkens), Cathart has FoS'd you and imaginality, etc. You're setting up a false dichotomy between TMJ and pops right now.
3. I'm not convinced that given another week of questioning, we wouldn't find someone that looks more suspicious than pops.

In addition, I don't think hammering to 'keep up interest' in the game is a good precedent -- it seems anti-town to me.

Is your interest in lynching pops completely based on Y.C's scummy actions, or is there anything that pops has done that added to your case against him?

[DeathRowKitty]

In saying this you are implicitly assuming TMJ-Town and pops-scum. Correct?

That's my current feeling.

1. Wouldn't we want to at least hear a claim from pops before lynch? This is my first closed-setup game, so I could be wrong about this.

Somehow that slipped my mind. We should, but if the option had been open to hammer and I'd done so, I wouldn't have felt bad about it.

2. TMJ isn't the only other person we can question. At least three people have expressed that they find jammer suspicious (me, Cruciare, Porkens), Cathart has FoS'd you and imaginality, etc. You're setting up a false dichotomy between TMJ and pops right now.

At least four people find Jammer suspicious (I didn't express my suspicion of Jammer as clearly, but I did mention it in a recent post), but he's better (IMO) to look at after alignments have been revealed. The FoS on me came after (and because of) my call for a quicklynch. As far as practicality is concerned, it's pops and TMJ.

Is your interest in lynching pops completely based on Y.C's scummy actions, or is there anything that pops has done that added to your case against him?

I think he's scummy for basically the same reasons that have already been mentioned. There were of course YC's scummy actions and now pops seems to be trying to latch onto our suspicions of TMJ to try to save himself.

I agree that hammering to keep up interest in the game is anti-town, but that wouldn't be the only reason for a hammer and a town that's tired of sitting around waiting for responses from one or two players is less likely to care to scumhunt. I agree though hammering just for keeping up interest is a bad idea.