California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[Talilan]

MafiaJin - We (Talilan) want to stay here.

[Thok]

you're sending yourself out again?

And

Talilan despite specifically being asked not to? I was 100% wrong about you and Glork was right. WTF man, it seems like you haven't even read the thread.

From what I can tell, these aren't the people he's sending in, but the people who are already guaranteed to be in the scene as given by the mod.

To be fair, my first reaction was that MafiaJin was incompetent also. I'd like him to discuss the decision about who he plans to send in, especially because I feel that MrJellyLee mentioned a valid concern about scum dominating one or the other threads. (Plus the whole keeping Talilan out of the scene so we can summon KY Krew is important.)
-------------

Questions to people coming in:

First, everybody who's been On-Camera should leave a record of your thoughts on the Off-Camera dealings once you catch up.

To Hewitt: you mentioned that you were OK with the early pressure on zwet; given that he's been lynched and came up town do you still stand by that statement?

To Panzer/CKD: could you give us a clear indication of the information you were provided as advocates?

To MafiaJin: Why did you think CKD was playing a mind game with people? (Other on camera people who feel like responding to this question can do so also.)
---------------

I don't really buy the "Gaspar voted zwet to save himself, therefore he's scum" argument. Even as a townie, from Glork's point of view a zwet lynch would be better than a Gaspar lynch (known townie versus unknown alignment, plus Gaspar would be more likely to help town than zwet based on scum-hunting reputations.)

[Bagel Eating Cowfrog]

I almost went to bed here, seeing as its v. late at night my time, but I'm so completely flabbergasted that I cannot let this rest. O second reading, I'm not sure I totally understand, in that I'm not sure whether you're bringing Talilan or KY Krew, but either way is bad. Here off stage, we have to do the nitty gritty of lynching. So you leave us our scum suspects. Personally, I don't really suspect either of them, but they've come under some serious scrutiny in this thread already, and that means we need them here. Similarly yourself. Frankly, by denying even the possibilty of questioning these people, you're going against the will of the town as a whole.

Furthermore, I am completely gobsmacked that you seem to have rushed so auickly to a decision. I can't believe that you've even read the offstage thread at this point. Given you seem hellbent on protecting yourself by scarpering to the camera at every opportunity, even if you are town, how on earth are you going to catch up with everything that's going on here - the information you need to scumhunt in a theoretical situation where we let you get away with surviving to endgame. Replacements are bad enough for knocking momentum from a game, we need the townies to catch up.

Which brings me to another grievance: you are not letting other players who may theoretically be more interested in the game than you catch up.

And a further thing - how the hell did you reach a decision so quickly? Are you even taking this thread into account? Or mayb G&B is right, and the scum can daytalk.

I want answers.

-Shanba

[Bagel Eating Cowfrog]

From what I can tell, these aren't the people he's sending in, but the people who are already guaranteed to be in the scene as given by the mod.

Ah...

oops.

[MafiaJin]

I suggest you read the opening post sir. I have not sent any decision in. All I did was copy the roles that were forced into the next scene to the player names of those roles. Can you read what the director actually does please?

[Talilan]

KY Crew is in the scene tomorrow, we are the stuntman. I believe we are the only player that can extract KY Crew from the scene (because, as I pointed out ages ago, Carrie Fisher was already predetermined to be in Scene Two irrespective of who the director chooses. KY Crew currently occupies Carrie Fisher's role having stolen it from us) as long as we hold the stuntman role.

I don't really buy the "Gaspar voted zwet to save himself, therefore he's scum" argument. Even as a townie, from Glork's point of view a zwet lynch would be better than a Gaspar lynch (known townie versus unknown alignment, plus Gaspar would be more likely to help town than zwet based on scum-hunting reputations.)

I agree, this is not a good argument for Glork being scum. The ones we presented previously are however. I viewed the way zwet seemed to be laying down his life and calling Glork out as scum as an attempt to lay down his life and give Glork some cred for being attacked by a scum-flipped player (having already thought zwet was scum since the beginning of the game). But now all we know is that zwet's suspicions were genuinely held. I actually would have been pretty much certain Glork was scum if zwet flipped scum, say about 99%. At the moment seeing as he flipped innocent I'm only about 97% sure Glork is scum (this is intended to be moderately facetious before you start dissecting it).

What I attacked you for was the way you seemed to believe everything CKD was saying,

but wanted to make him drive anyway

. That, I can't think of any possible town motivation for.

As I said, for a start, point me to some evidence that we, at any point, "wanted to make him drive anyway". We didn't, we didn't vote as such, we never gave any indication that we leaned that way over the alternative. We considered it as a good town player should do, and incited more discussion in the process. You are still being opportunistic.

Last point before I read new posts but Gaspar, before the game you claimed Count de Morcef was 99% innocent. Yet then when Orbots questioned you about it, you said that it was not Hewitt you were claiming it about and that Orbots had the wrong name. However, a look at the cast shows that it is indeed Hewitt who is Count de Morcef. Clarify that please. (I don't believe Orbots ever followed up on this"

This whole comment by Glork to begin with was entirely ridiculous. Especially considering the roles aren't our actual roles anyway.

I do not think there is any question that scum can day-talk after the way KY Crew played on-stage. The only reason he would have intention or motivation to hammer that decision in was to lock in zwet as a lynch (irrespective of whether you think this incriminates Glork or not). There is no other explanation for why he suddenly and otherwise arbitrarily decided to change his tune and hammer unless his buddies off-stage told him to. I was actually wondering whether his posts on-stage were ghostwritten, because they were so different to what I'd seen off-stage from; I'm pretty sure it was all rajrhcpfreak. But having had a (very) quick look at inHimshallibe's writing style elsewhere I'd have to assume it's just because they were written by him.

- ortolan

[Gaspar]

DGB says that Krew conveniently ended it after I switched to Zwet, but two things here:
1) As SL said, Zwet was leading the condorcet before I switched my vote over to him. In the context of "Gaspar vs Zwet," I already had Zwet ahead of me in my condorcet, so there was no functional change. My vote was largely symbolic to say "I'd rather have someone else lynched than me."
2) Krew had to know that we would react against his switch and behavior, and he hammered before Zwet or Orbots had a chance to confirm that he is dirty scum and that noboy offstage likes or believes him. Perhaps he was hoping to rush a mislynch for the Off-Stage people, too. Now granted, the lynch ended up being between two protown players, but

FYI, I would still like the director changed during the off-scene. I still think that MafiaJin was behaving out of self-interest, as he put himself on camera for Scene 1 and was guaranteed to be on camera for Scene 2. I realize that

someone

probably has to be on-camera twice in a row, but I don't like that anyone would offer themselves up for the job when our more important business is off-stage still irritates me.

For what it's worth, MJ, I want to be left off-stage if possible. There was a significant push towards me at the end of the day, with Talilan and DGB both jumping onto me, and that gives me pause for concern. I do NOT like when people try to deadline lynch me, so this is something I want to look into personally.


-----


In unrelated news:
Thok, you've stepped in and answered for me three times (give or take, I haven't been counting) in the last 48 hours or so. Are you buddying up to me? The first time or two, I was like "whatever, that's just Thok being Thok" but your most recent defense of me has taken you off my list of very likely Innocents.

Hewitt, could you please explain your On-Camera behavior -- that is, could you explain to us why you pushed following Locke for so long? I'd like you to detail your thought processes behind each of your posts during Scene One.

I'm not following the logic behind believing that scums can communicate at all times during the game. Could you folks please elaborate on that? I acknowledge that it's possible, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that it is likely.

[elmosaurian]

Exactly.

KY Krew ended the day before anyone could change their Condorcet, and perhaps lower zwet and raise Gaspar.

Could be. To be sure, caught-scum-KY Krew had pleanty of reason to end the day early so long as long as Zwet was #1, no matter what Glork's alignment is.

-Yos

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I don't really buy the "Gaspar voted zwet to save himself, therefore he's scum" argument. Even as a townie, from Glork's point of view a zwet lynch would be better than a Gaspar lynch (known townie versus unknown alignment, plus Gaspar would be more likely to help town than zwet based on scum-hunting reputations.)

I know that. You are misrepresenting/reducing my argument. Just before the tide turned away from zwet against Gaspar, KY Krew, who posted ON camera hinting that following "young girls" wasn't such a hot idea, suddenly made a 180 degree turn, voted Wiggin, and ended the day.

It's the timing and connection to KY Krew that incriminates Gaspar, not the simple fact that he tried to save his keister by voting zwet.

Furthermore, I am adding my own argument to those already made by others, rather than parroting.

Thok, you have defended Gaspar by making it appear as if the only case against Gaspar was mine, when there were also strong cases made by others, and by reducing my case to something quite ridiculous sounding. Your defense of Gaspar is duly noted.

So folks, I have 3 scums. KY Krew, Gaspar, and Thok.

[elmosaurian]

What I attacked you for was the way you seemed to believe everything CKD was saying,

but wanted to make him drive anyway

. That, I can't think of any possible town motivation for.

As I said, for a start, point me to some evidence that we, at any point, "wanted to make him drive anyway". We didn't, we didn't vote as such, we never gave any indication that we leaned that way over the alternative. We considered it as a good town player should do, and incited more discussion in the process. You are still being opportunistic.

This was what you said in the on camera thread.

The decision, Mr Locke, is whether to have you drive knowing that either you are lying now or you will defect to the enemy, then dispose of you at the next opportunity.

Or do we let the unknown quantity drive, the one who knows but has not told us what will happen if she drives. The one who may have had the same offer as you, and may defect, but we will not know of it.

You act the martyr but wouldn't the truly noble action be to drive, knowing that we will have to kill you?
WWWSD? What would Will Smith do?

This was just...well, garbage. It sounded to me like you were scum who knew CKD was telling the truth, but was trying to use logical errors, confusions, and false dilemmas in order to see if you could trick people to have him drive anyway. When it didn't work, you gave up and voted the correct way, true, but that's still scummy.

The fact that you keep attacking me just because I attacked you for something perfectly logical like this for this probably means you're scum. And the way you keep trying to link me to Glork for really terrible reasons might mean you're scum with Glork, although that would imply a lot of distancing.

-Yos

[Thok]

Thok, you've stepped in and answered for me three times (give or take, I haven't been counting) in the last 48 hours or so. Are you buddying up to me? The first time or two, I was like "whatever, that's just Thok being Thok" but your most recent defense of me has taken you off my list of very likely Innocents.

At least one of those was when Talilan asked me why I wasn't suspicious of your change of view with respect to the Day 1 On Camera decision. That arguably shouldn't count.

Also, a lot of the stuff I've been bringing up is Mafia 101 basic stuff. So, no I'm not trying to buddy up; rather I'm pointing out obvious defenses you would have brought up also because I don't assume you are an idiot.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Exactly.

KY Krew ended the day before anyone could change their Condorcet, and perhaps lower zwet and raise Gaspar.

Could be. To be sure, caught-scum-KY Krew had pleanty of reason to end the day early so long as long as Zwet was #1, no matter what Glork's alignment is.

-Yos

Assuming KY Krew is scum, he could have continued down the path of hinting that following Wiggin is a bad idea. That's what he tried to do while zwet was ahead of the count.

But when Gaspar got heat, he completely and inexplicably switched from saying that following Wiggin wasn't such a good idea, to hammering and ending the day.

Why. Why did KY Krew so abruptly change course?

-DGB

[curiouskarmadog]

well that was a read and a fucking half.

I am glad to see that the off stage crew saw that the decision was an obvious one. On stage it felt like an up hill battle. I actually felt like they were going to make me drive just to lynch me "Day 2"

Big FOS on Starkiss and mafia Jin...and to some extent sottyrulz

Bagel, those are the people that have to go...I think Talian is now Ms. Blue so she is not slated to go...nor should she go because the stuntman ability should stay off stage.

I think I am going to take the director role, unless someone has a big objection. if so, I would like to know why.

That being said, I am curious..if I take the role...who should I send? some of the people I think are scummy (to keep them away from the lynch) save one that I think we should lynch? Send all the people I think are town so we can get anohter +1? Go 50/50?


also I did share everything I was told on stage except one tid bit that I couldnt figure out how to do in character...plus I dont think it would have matter anyway, maybe even hurt. side note: while being onstage I couldnt figure out how to reference the off stage people in character....

the "mafia" name is Screen Mafia Guild (SMG). If I would have driven, I would have become a member of their crew...if Valentine drove I would remain innocent.

I also think it is a possibility that Panzer was given the same option I was. But who knows....at any rate, valetine was the right choice.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, Fos Tailan to some extent...

not sure why zwet was lynched here....I read and I am still unsure..someone want to explain?

[Bagel Eating Cowfrog]

@ckd: From reading the role descriptions, it looks like even if you fire MafiaJin now it won't take effect until next scene. As for zwet, I don't know about the others but I lynched him for his lack of participation/attention to the game, especially when we needed him; as well as his hypocritical stances, anti-town behavior and policies, buddying, lack of scumhunting and piggybacking...the list goes on and on.

[curiouskarmadog]

the next scene hasnt started yet

[curiouskarmadog]

rereading it..I think you are right

[sottyrulez]

well that was a read and a fucking half.

I am glad to see that the off stage crew saw that the decision was an obvious one. On stage it felt like an up hill battle. I actually felt like they were going to make me drive just to lynch me "Day 2"

Big FOS on Starkiss and mafia Jin...and to some extent sottyrulz

What post/s give you the impression that we had any desire to see you drive? (We refers to myself and sotty.) What exactly makes you suspicious of us?

the "mafia" name is Screen Mafia Guild (SMG). If I would have driven, I would have become a member of their crew...if Valentine drove I would remain innocent.

I also think it is a possibility that Panzer was given the same option I was. But who knows....at any rate, valetine was the right choice.

I would have to disagree with the idea of Panzer being given the same choice as you. Why would Panzer flip from innocent to not-innocent in a choice outcome that was good for the innocent side? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Gaspar]

Last point before I read new posts but Gaspar, before the game you claimed Count de Morcef was 99% innocent. Yet then when Orbots questioned you about it, you said that it was not Hewitt you were claiming it about and that Orbots had the wrong name. However, a look at the cast shows that it is indeed Hewitt who is Count de Morcef. Clarify that please. (I don't believe Orbots ever followed up on this"

Is this directed at me? Either way, I have no problem explaining what I said.


In both CT1 and CT2, I was of the same alignment as Count De Morcerf. (In fact, in CT1, I WAS Count de Morcerf.) In both games, Morcerf and I both survived. I made a completely baseless, joke comment about Morcerf being almost certainly protown because I know that I'm protown, I wanted to reference CT1, and CT2, and I wanted to see what people actually said about such a statement by me.

That's really all there is to it. I never actually had any reason to believe that Morcerf is innocent; I was basically making random statements about alignment during the equivalent of "start of Day One."

[Talilan]

btw I just heard from Mr. Grey that the assistant producer cannot hold two roles simultaneously. So let's not nominate replacements and just let them decide or we risk outing the assistant producer.

The attacks on people on-stage are extremely easy to make; bogus; and opportunistic. I found hewitt scummy for his persistence but in light of the fact scum can obviously day-talk (assuming there is only one at least major mafia faction as implied by "primary non-innocent alignment"; and going off e.g. mith's mod-meta of only having one scum group in his invitational setup with no other anti-town alignments) I think his buddies would have cautioned him not to be too blatant fighting for a lost cause.

And whenever I read the totality of our posts on-stage I think "Yep, Yos and Glork and Thok" are obv-scum for attacking us for them".

I am not saying there were no scum on-stage (which I'm sure e.g. Thok will argue due to his propensity for taking my words out of context and using the worst interpretation possible to rebut them), but I'm saying relying on on-screen tells in the absence of obviously strange or inconsistent behaviour; especially when we know the scum know the correct choices all along and could thus deliberately avoid giving this away as a tell; and at the detriment of attacking the off-stage players with good arguments; is scummy. See: Gaspar (and elmo and Thok).

So folks, I have 3 scums. KY Krew, Gaspar, and Thok.

Yay, someone agrees with us. Get a few more and we can form a townie coalition and mow them all down.

And the way you keep trying to link me to Glork for really terrible reasons might mean you're scum with Glork, although that would imply a lot of distancing.

Really terrible reasons? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you

still haven't

explained your unfinished sentence to Gaspar. This was good evidence of distancing. It doesn't cease to exist the more blatantly you fail to address it.

Thok, you've stepped in and answered for me three times (give or take, I haven't been counting) in the last 48 hours or so. Are you buddying up to me? The first time or two, I was like "whatever, that's just Thok being Thok" but your most recent defense of me has taken you off my list of very likely Innocents.

This is so bogus. Glork is actually flaunting his scumminess, I bet they are rofl'ing in their quicktopic about how reluctant people are to lynch Glork even when he's obv-scum.

not sure why zwet was lynched here....I read and I am still unsure..someone want to explain?

Well basically what happened was Gaspar instructed KY Crew to hammer in the decision in their quicktopic before he was at risk of winning the condorcet.

I fail to see any evidence whatsoever of MafiaJin being scummy. Gaspar's push on him has always been scummy and baseless. MafiaJin also voted that Valentine drives almost instantly after hearing the advice of Locke, which as Thok and Gaspar and elmo have said any good townie in that situation should have done, and which we are scummy for not doing; but apparently MafiaJin is still scummy for it (if any more evidence was needed of Gaspar using tells entirely selectively and arbitrarily).

I will be very, very, very displeased if Gaspar somehow lives through day two.

- ortolan

[curiouskarmadog]

What post/s give you the impression that we had any desire to see you drive? (We refers to myself and sotty.) What exactly makes you suspicious of us?

It was an early vibe (that is why I say I said “to some extent”)
Cant quote..

After a vote for me to drive
” I fear we are letting our emotions over take what really should be a more logical decision. Ms Newmar your vote on who should or should not drive was very careless. You are aware of the situation, like we all are.... This choice is something that we have to seriously consider and pounder. Rushing to a decision helps no one, especially when we don't have all of the facts and some of our number have yet to weigh in on this most important of debate.

Mr Locke, I find it hard to trust a man as vague as you are being with us. There must be more information that you are not sharing or at least a better way to communicate it.”

I wasn’t being that vague…I told you exactly what I knew. At any rate, rereading you in isolation, it does seem that your concern was really slowing down the vote, versus wanting me to drive. That seems pro-town given the situation we were put in. You have to understand how frustrated I was in the scene, when I told you what would happen if I drove, yet the conversation still revolved around not trusting me and having me drive anyway just to kill me today…which seem ridiculous. I take back my FOS of you a guess.

I would have to disagree with the idea of Panzer being given the same choice as you. Why would Panzer flip from innocent to not-innocent in a choice outcome that was good for the innocent side? It doesn't make sense to me.

I am not sure why it is so hard for you to understand my theory about a group result (+1/-1) and a personal result. I have explained it 2-3 times now. I think who drove affected the group as a whole for some endgame (unknown) reason, and the personal result is independent of that. I think it is a possibility (for balancing reasons) that she could have been given the same choice. It might be unlikely, however, I don’t think that it should be ruled out.

In both CT1 and CT2, I was of the same alignment as Count De Morcerf. (In fact, in CT1, I WAS Count de Morcerf.) In both games, Morcerf and I both survived.

FYI, I was the count in CT2

I fail to see any evidence whatsoever of MafiaJin being scummy. Gaspar's push on him has always been scummy and baseless. MafiaJin also voted that Valentine drives almost instantly after hearing the advice of Locke, which as Thok and Gaspar and elmo have said any good townie in that situation should have done, and which we are scummy for not doing; but apparently MafiaJin is still scummy for it (if any more evidence was needed of Gaspar using tells entirely selectively and arbitrarily).

do you think that is the only reason you in particular look scummy?

==
I also want Mafiajin to explain the mindgame comment…they ignored the question on screen..have a feeling they are going to ignore it again, until ON screen is back up again, so they don’t have to answer.

I also request that both Hewitt and Starkiss STAY off screen this time…

[PJ.]

I think that Gaspar, Hewitt, starkiss and tally stay off screen.

I was told simply that I was the one that was supposed to lead the innocents/town. That was all I was given. The uncertainity in my play was me role playing. Valentine's brother Peter(who is a sociopathic, power hungry, despot) used the alias John Locke. Hence "Locke". Peter Wiggen would never give up power to someone else unless there was a catch, like the person in power was going to die. Knowing that I was the right choice and acting Locke = Peter is why I had was unsure. Also it was quite strange that the other advocate basically said I'm not driving unless you guys make me.

Also, I read the thread but I'm not sure if the reason Gaspar is 100% confirmed innocent ever was explained. Does anyone know what happened with that? Is he indeed 100% confirmed with hewitt? I would really like an answer to that before people end up on stage.

Also I don't like KY Krew at all right now(the whole lying about how people off-screen said not to trust me is pretty obviously scummy). I find Starkiss and Mafiajin scummy as well.

[Gaspar]

Super duper quick early morning post, then I really AM gone for the weekend.

This is so bogus. Glork is actually flaunting his scumminess, I bet they are rofl'ing in their quicktopic about how reluctant people are to lynch Glork even when he's obv-scum.

How is what I said bogus? How does asking Thok why he defends me in any way "flaunt my scumminess"?

I will be very, very, very displeased if Gaspar somehow lives through day two.

You'd rather have someone else lynched over Krew? Enormous Gigantor FoS.
Seriously, if you're protown, you're going to get an extremely long and extremely angry rant from me after this game. If you're scum, I suppose you're doing your job by CONSTANTLY making an enormous ruckuss in the wrong direction so I wouldn't be able to fault you there.

Also, I read the thread but I'm not sure if the reason Gaspar is 100% confirmed innocent ever was explained. Does anyone know what happened with that? Is he indeed 100% confirmed with hewitt? I would really like an answer to that before people end up on stage.

Actually, I just answered this in my last post:

Last point before I read new posts but Gaspar, before the game you claimed Count de Morcef was 99% innocent. Yet then when Orbots questioned you about it, you said that it was not Hewitt you were claiming it about and that Orbots had the wrong name. However, a look at the cast shows that it is indeed Hewitt who is Count de Morcef. Clarify that please. (I don't believe Orbots ever followed up on this"

Is this directed at me? Either way, I have no problem explaining what I said.


In both CT1 and CT2, I was of the same alignment as Count De Morcerf. (In fact, in CT1, I WAS Count de Morcerf.) In both games, Morcerf and I both survived. I made a completely baseless, joke comment about Morcerf being almost certainly protown because I know that I'm protown, I wanted to reference CT1, and CT2, and I wanted to see what people actually said about such a statement by me.

That's really all there is to it. I never actually had any reason to believe that Morcerf is innocent; I was basically making random statements about alignment during the equivalent of "start of Day One."

[Gaspar]

I fail to see any evidence whatsoever of MafiaJin being scummy. Gaspar's push on him has always been scummy and baseless. MafiaJin also voted that Valentine drives almost instantly after hearing the advice of Locke, which as Thok and Gaspar and elmo have said any good townie in that situation should have done, and which we are scummy for not doing; but apparently MafiaJin is still scummy for it (if any more evidence was needed of Gaspar using tells entirely selectively and arbitrarily).

[If you can find one shred of evidence that I said "MafiaJin is scummy for immediately wanting to follow Valentine," I will honestly eat my hat. I swear, I'll even YouTube it, too. And I like wearing my hat on my head.

This is not just a gross misrepresentation of my dislike of MafiaJin; it's a complete and utter

LIE

. I NEVER said ANYTHING of that nature.

Honestly, Ortolan, I have to know. Do you have any idea what any of my arguments over this game have been, or do you insist on just throwing a bunch of words at me in the hopes that you'll trick someone like Goofballs into thinking I just might be scum?



Goofballs, what do you have to say about the quoted post and my response?

[Talilan]

I fail to see any evidence whatsoever of MafiaJin being scummy. Gaspar's push on him has always been scummy and baseless. MafiaJin also voted that Valentine drives almost instantly after hearing the advice of Locke, which as Thok and Gaspar and elmo have said any good townie in that situation should have done, and which we are scummy for not doing; but apparently MafiaJin is still scummy for it (if any more evidence was needed of Gaspar using tells entirely selectively and arbitrarily).

do you think that is the only reason you in particular look scummy?

I don't understand this question. What you've quoted is a passage where we were defending MafiaJin and calling the attack on them scummy. I said that Glork has attacked us for not going with the follow Valentine decision all along; but he is also attacking MafiaJin who DID go with the follow Valentine decision all along. Seeing as it's the only scum-tell he produced on us before we counter-attacked him, and yet he was so confident we were scum because of it, presumably he should be equally confident that MafiaJin is town (note: I think all his "reads" from on-stage have been rubbish altogether). So basically, I disagree that there is any reason we in particular look scummy, as we haven't done anything scummy all game. We are town and have been earnest in our opinions throughout the game. I have stated multiple times that I have concluded, from our posts on-stage, that I don't see how thoughtful town players would come to the conclusion we are scummy. Attempting to empathise with scum is not a path I'll willfully go down.

Honestly, Ortolan, I have to know. Do you have any idea what any of my arguments over this game have been

Yes

or do you insist on just throwing a bunch of words at me in the hopes that you'll trick someone like Goofballs into thinking I just might be scum?

No. Do you think that throwing a bunch of words at us (as you did before and after we had facility to respond) will trick people into thinking we are actually scummy?

[If you can find one shred of evidence that I said "MafiaJin is scummy for immediately wanting to follow Valentine," I will honestly eat my hat. I swear, I'll even YouTube it, too. And I like wearing my hat on my head.]

This is not just a gross misrepresentation of my dislike of MafiaJin; it's a complete and utter

LIE

. I NEVER said ANYTHING of that nature.

That wasn't the point. See above in response to ckd.

Seriously, if you're protown, you're going to get an extremely long and extremely angry rant from me after this game. If you're scum, I suppose you're doing your job by CONSTANTLY making an enormous ruckuss in the wrong direction so I wouldn't be able to fault you there.

At last you are providing the indignance I expected. But only after I called you out on it. Too late. The only possible purpose of this passage can be to try to scare me about being wrong into revising my reads. Fear is not a tool town use.