Newbie 835: Game Over

[YamiJoey]

EBWOP: I know this also makes me look scummy, but I doubt that Double A (Semi-Experienced) would make a similar mistake, so I'll take him off of that list. I'd rather be wrong at the moment, as it's all I've seen to go off, but at the end of the day I have no proof.

YJ

[Thok]

Official Vote Count (deadline 9/23)

Double A (2): (Webz, Humble Poirot)
Webz (1): (Kirbyoshi)
Kirbyoshi (0):
YamiJoey (0):
Humble Poirot (0):
Devotress (0):
fallen angel (0):
yabbaguy (0):
orangepenguin (0):

Not Voting (6): (YamiJoey, Double A, fallen angel, yabbaguy, orangepenguin, Devotress)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Please let me know if I've made a mistake.

[Humble Poirot]

I understand what the article is saying, (and thus; you) but there is the idea behind it. Trying to force themselves into being seen as Town rather than letting people simply assume it. Which is bad Mafia behaviour, if you ask me.

I understand what you're saying. You mean that someone trying to auto-clear themselves may be scummy but this game is not just about finding scum, etc, etc. You also have to be readable (as town) so others may guess your allignment and act accordingly.

If you're an anti-town townie and you get lynched because of it you're only hurting your team's chances so I rather have 9 pro-town players, even if you consider them to be too pro town.

For the record, I'll take my time to call someone pro-town or anti-town and to call them scum or town.

I understand that by keeping my position on this I'm looking scummy, but lets face it; this post can only reinforce anyone's suspicions unless I had other evidence as to why Webz would be Scum, which I don't as it is about the only thing that has happened so far.

I did also argue against my own point in that post, so it's clear that I did understand I had a flawed argument, but a pair of FoS' that had

]some

basis was better than random.org, isn't it?

Way better than random org. All this talk is healthy. Knowing what everyone thinks will help us to read each other and determine who is more likely scum.

EBWOP: I know this also makes me look scummy, but I doubt that Double A (Semi-Experienced) would make a similar mistake, so I'll take him off of that list. I'd rather be wrong at the moment, as it's all I've seen to go off, but at the end of the day I have no proof.

mmm... I'm kinda lost... what's the mistake again? Why wouldn't an SE do that?

Mind you, there will never be "proof", just theories and deductions. Only PR's (in this game, only a cop) might have proof, and yet, he still needs to be believed by the town.

To the IC:

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

[YamiJoey]

I honestly can't find what the hell I was talking about when I FoS'd Double A. I've just gone back to reference the post and I just don't see what I was talking about. I may have thought that post 39 was made by Double A and just made a mistake. That combined with the "Speak to my buddies" and no mension of Masons in the set-up made me suspicious of him and clouded my judgment when going through posts by him. (Or at least; I thought were by him.)

I've just caught myself doing the same thing again then, which is what made me reconsider what I was going to write in this post. (I read something you posted, and simply to create something to post, thought about picking up on it, even though I know why you said it.)

Unless that is a good action in order to try and gain some information. Should I ask a question, knowing what the answer

should

be?

YJ

[Double A]

Well by talking with my buddies I meant for games where the town can talk out of the game. In mafia either me or my partner normally ends up dying on day two so... yeah... well anyway check the link in my sig and you'll see a (huge) example of a game like I'm talking about

I said that in a game before and I got lynched

So, were you scum in that game?

Actually I was. But that wasn't the point. There was literally no evidence of me being scum. Besides jokes, which apparently are a no-no here.

*Puts on serious face*

No more humor. I will personally cut anyone trying to make a joke because that is wrong in a game.

[Kirbyoshi]

Kirbyoshi wrote:
AA wrote:
I said that in a game before and I got lynched


So, were you scum in that game?


Actually I was. But that wasn't the point. There was literally no evidence of me being scum. Besides jokes, which apparently are a no-no here.

So then, are you denying it's a scumtell? To me, although some things can't be called "scumtells" per se, scum will probably have the same attitude from game to game, and therefore do some of the same things. Not going to vote purely on meta, but I will

FoS: YamiJoey

.

Oh yeah, and

Unvote: Webz

because apparently, like AA said, joking is illegal in a game.

[Kirbyoshi]

Also,

To the IC:

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

I'd be careful saying this kind of stuff,a tleast until the IC is cleared. ICs are just as likely to be scum as the rest of us.

Above post=quote fail.

[Humble Poirot]

Also,

To the IC:

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

I'd be careful saying this kind of stuff,a tleast until the IC is cleared. ICs are just as likely to be scum as the rest of us.

Don't think for a sec that I will think that the IC must be town. We all have the same chances to be scum or town so...

I just wanted to know what he has to say. Asking questions, getting answers and answering other people's questions helps a great deal(as long as they're not totally irrelevant or we flood the game with too much small stuff) so I'd let people answer before I comment on questions not posed to myself.

Thank you.

[Kirbyoshi]

Are you trying to shut me up? Afraid I'll out you as scum?

[orangepenguin]

Vote: Double A

(and

FoS:

Kirby)

Scum tend to hide behind random votes, either with a randomizer or dice roll, because they are too scared to commit to a vote and stand by it, especially during the RVS.

I disagree completely with those here that say the RVS is pointless. If it was pointless, than all the experienced players wouldn't continue to do so in every other game I've played here.

[orangepenguin]

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

Newbie scum tend to make a lot of obvious mistakes in their game play and often crack under the pressure. There is no "proper" way to find them though, you just have to go with your own instincts and pay attention to every single post and find the pretenders from the fakers.

[Humble Poirot]

Are you trying to shut me up? Afraid I'll out you as scum?

did you actually read my post? How is encouraging talk shutting you up?

I only asked you to refrain your comments if the person who is supposed to answer something hasn't done already. Then you may give your own answer and opinions. If you do it before, you're spoiling the purpose of my question.

[Kirbyoshi]

I don't think I was spoiling the purpose of your question at all; I didn't answer for "OP the IC", nor did my comment keep him from answering any question posed to him.

I'd let people answer before I comment on questions not posed to myself.

Thank you.

I still think this part of the post is meant to stifle me. It's not working, but it's worth noting that it seems like "Hercules" is trying to stop me from speaking my mind when I want to. Any thoughts from anyone else?

Mod Edit: Fixing quote tags

[Kirbyoshi]

@mod: I can has quote fix?

[Devotress]

Also,

To the IC:

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

I'd be careful saying this kind of stuff,a tleast until the IC is cleared. ICs are just as likely to be scum as the rest of us.

Above post=quote fail.

According to the links in the OP, the IC playing as scum, while still playing to win, and obviously leading the lynch away from himself and his scumbuddy, still are supposed to give sound advice on basic principles and practices. Asking basic gameplay and tactics questions of the IC should be safe regardless of whether he is scum or not.

[Devotress]

editing the above:

Er, apparently the links aren't in the op, maybe I saw them in the newbie que thread or something? Anyhow, according to the mafiascum wiki page on IC's.

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, I was going off of my experience in a newbie game on another site where a vet gave advice to the SK to claim, and then the person who pointed out that that's NOT what the SK is supposed to do was labeled as scummy. While there is no SK in this game, and I don't think OP would tell scum to claim, I thought the same basic principles could apply to this game. Apparently the ICs here are bound to follow the guidelines in the "Being a Good IC" article. Makes for a better game, imo

[Kirbyoshi]

"OP"=orangepenguin, btw, not Original Post (at least not in my above post).

[Humble Poirot]

I don't think I was spoiling the purpose of your question at all; I didn't answer for "OP the IC", nor did my comment keep him from answering any question posed to him.

I'd let people answer before I comment on questions not posed to myself.

Thank you.

I still think this part of the post is meant to stifle me. It's not working, but it's worth noting that it seems like "Hercules" is trying to stop me from speaking my mind when I want to. Any thoughts from anyone else?

Ok. Let's see. If I ask someone a question and you inmediatly dissaprove of that question, whatever your reasons. You're therefore affecting the player's original, uninterfered, response. Wich was what I was looking for. An original reaction.

If you think that what I'm asking means that I'm stoping from speaking your mind then you are correct. I don't want you to answer for others before they even post. I think it's detrimental to my reads.

Do you think what I did was scummy? Why don't you say so instead of just saying "it's worth noting" without explaining what conclusion you may get...? Why do you feel the need to ask for someone elses opinion of what you read? in general? Do you feel that you need someone to support your views to pursue a thought?

Mod edit: equal opportunity quote fixing.

[Humble Poirot]

EBWOP: something failed there...

I carried on his quote fail...

[Kirbyoshi]

So, what you're saying is that once a question is posed, no one is supposed to post anything pertaining to that subject until the question is answered?

I don't want you to answer for others before they even post.

I wasn't answering for him, I was simply commenting on your question, and giving you some advice that I thought was good. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to.

Why don't you say so instead of just saying "it's worth noting" without explaining what conclusion you may get...?

Because I'm not 100% sure it's scummy, but it may be a secondary reason for a vote, if it comes to that.

Why do you feel the need to ask for someone elses opinion of what you read? in general?

Because I know that if everyone disagrees with me, I'm probably wrong. Also, I asked for OTHER people's thoughts, not yours. I'd appreciate it if you didn't answer questions that aren't addressed to you, thanks. (c wut ah did thar?)

[Webz]

Vote: Double A

(and

FoS:

Kirby)

Scum tend to hide behind random votes, either with a randomizer or dice roll, because they are too scared to commit to a vote and stand by it, especially during the RVS.

I disagree completely with those here that say the RVS is pointless. If it was pointless, than all the experienced players wouldn't continue to do so in every other game I've played here.

The RVS isn't completely useless, as I said. I take that back. In fact, if you lynch a scum, you can go back and see what they said in the RVS, as they are almost 0% likely to vote for their scumbuddies. So, you can potentially clear someone as town with this information.

And @ everyone: Jokes are allowed! But try to be as serious as possible with votes, as any vote can be the vote that makes a townie get lynched.

[Devotress]

And @ everyone: Jokes are allowed!

Yay!

Vote Webz

But try to be as serious as possible with votes

oh.

Unvote Webz

As for seroius time.
I think I agree with Humble Poirot on the arguement here, generally speaking, if I were to ask PersonA questions, and then someone responds to those in between, while it doesn't stop PersonA from responding, it does help to give PersonA a little bit of an out to try and work with. Especially if later on in the game we're asking people to justify there actions and stuff.
In the current situation it wasn't a big deal though.

[Webz]

@ kirb: How are we meant to "clear" the IC? We only have 1/2 chance of having a cop, and even if we do, I would prefer if they investigated someone who was acting scummy. We don't have forever, you know. Also, even if the cop has cleared the IC, then we don't want him saying it. That'll just get the cop nightkilled.

Oh, and guys:

FOS: YamiJoey

. None of his posts seem to be townie posts. Scum will often not post scum posts, but they won't often post pro-town ones. He's had a complete 180 turn in opinion to AA, but for no real reason. His FoS on me is for being too pro-town. While I respect that I shouldn't be cleared as town yet, as no one else is, why am I too pro town? How is this scummy?

Also, no one vote for AA (though I still have the case on him). He's at L-2 already, so someone could hammer him at L-1 and hide behind the fact that it's the first day of their first game.

Also, a little more clarification on my opinion to the RVS. To sum it up:
Posting votes that are completely random, or on someone you have a grudge against, is not pro-town. The early stage is by no means irrelevant.

[Devotress]

Is there a way to view all of one person's posts in a thread? The forum I watched a mafia game on recently had that feature, and it was really usefull for trying to read people. On that forum, it was a little '?' a ways under there avatar.