Talilan wrote:Attacking someone who is not in the thread and is therefore not able to defend themselves is not a point in your favour.
I would attack anyone for the scummy tunnely attack you made on us (and of a similar nature to the one you made on MafiaJin). You conveniently pick your targets off camera then after forming contrived plans to pull them off-stage suggest that they are scum for pointing out the several flawed logic you're using makes you scum.
Again, this is the privilege you get when you're off-stage, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be a point in your favour.
I never said it was a point in my favor. You accused Elmosaurian of OMGUS, when it's evident that Elmosaurian thought you were scum before you voted for him. I'm debunking your accusation, you ignorant cad.
By its very definition, OMGUS is voting for someone because they voted for you. This is not the case -- the suspicion existed long before you put Elmo and me at the top of your condorcet. You're trying to turn this into some different argument, but the fact remains that you made a completely invalid accusation. You're trying to reduce a very signifcant case into mere OMGUS, which I won't let by.
Talilan wrote:Gaspar (429) wrote:You suggested that the players On Camera follow a plan which you are told will turn a townsperson into a Scum, in order to spend a future day lynching that player;
Please tell me how this is scummy and also how suggesting equals definitively advocating.
Gladly. You proposed that people follow Locke, so that he will switch alignments from Innocent to [Arbitrary Non-Innocent Alignment].
THE PREMISE WHICH YOU MUST ACCEPT HERE IS THAT LOCKE WAS INNOCENT TO BEGIN WITH.
This is an assumption I can't see any uninformed (read: Innocent) player making. Furthermore, you are suggesting that you would rather spend a Decision and a Day's Lynch to kill a person whom you have accepted as being Innocent if you are to use such a plan.
Stop and think about it for a second. Your suggestion was this:
Locke is innocent.
If we choose A, Locke will turn Scum. If we choose B, Locke will not turn scum.
You suggested that instead of leaving Locke alive (as innocent), that we turn Locke into scum and kill him.
Net result of Choosing A and then lynching Locke: One less innocent in the game, one dead player.
Net result of Choosing B: Same number of innocents, and the potential to lynch scum elsewhere.
Your suggestion was terrible. It was crap from the very beginning, and I challenge you to sit here and maintain a straight face while claiming it was a reasonable suggestion.
The fact that you say you didn't "definitively advocate" it is irrelevant. You're backing down from a HORRIBLE, COMPLETELY ANTI-TOWN suggestion by saying "oh, but I was only making conversation, not saying we should actually DO this." It's bull. You are scum.
Talilan wrote:Gaspar (429) wrote:2) You tried to steer away from the "Follow Valentine" consensus by suggesting that following Valentine would lead to a similar (if not equal) result, which is preposterous considering one result is Good, while the other is Bad.
No, we didn't. This is your scummy spin coming in again, maintaining that "we intended to steer them away from following Valentine all along".
"Scummy spin" my foot. Let's look, word-for-word, at what you said:
Talilan wrote:Or do we let the unknown quantity drive, the one who knows but has not told us what will happen if she drives. The one who may have had the same offer as you, and may defect, but we will not know of it.
Questions for you:
1) Do you believe that Valentine had the same offer of "turn scum if the town follows you."
2a) If not, why would you even bring this up
2b) If so, how can "Innocent turns Scum" possibly make either decision GOOD for the town?
Note you signalled intentions to tunnel on us and ignore any town-signals as early as 238:
Talilan wrote:Being "almost certain Talilan will pass it off as flavor/acting" means being "almost certain" that we will deliberately lie/deceive about our behaviour, which guarantees we are scum. I'm curious as to how you got such a strong read on us right then. I'm also curious as to what that other explanation we were supposed to provide was.
How on earth does "flavor/acting" mean "lying about our behavior"? I have used flavor as an explanation for things when telling the truth, and I've used flavor to lie before. You're trying to force me into a circular argument, when all I'm saying is "this is how I believe she's going to explain it, and we won't have any way of proving whether she's lying or not."
Talilan wrote:The other point is that you totally ignore that we asked for a poll of the off-camera crew (yep, it doesn't factor into your consideration of our alignment at all, which is completely ridiculous) which effectively forces our hand even if we had been trying to derail the game.
If you look at the vote count when you asked for the poll, TWO peopele were voting for Valentine at the time, and ONE ADDTIONAL PERSON (MafiaJin) had just unvoted because we asked everyone to slow down and give us time to make a lynch. The decision was both obvious and nearly made, and you wanted to draw in another element. You want to use "asking for a poll" as a sign of fariness, when I saw it as a distraction, a way to try to appeal to yet another set of players who might bring Locke into question.
Talilan wrote:his failure to finish a crucial line in Post 315 which looks like he was trying to think of a valid reason to post rather than giving an honest response;
THIS IS COMPLETE HORSESHIT, TOO. I could probably find a hundred times where I was posting and simply forgot to finish a sentence because I got distracted by something else. For all you fucking know, whomever made that post had a phone call, and returned to the thread to start a new point. You are reading WAAAAYYYY too much into nothing, and just grasping at straws here.
Honestly, how can you accuse me of tunneling on finding excuses to call you scum, when you horribly misrepresent an incomplete sentence? I laughed it off, because it's something that just happens.
Dear god, people. Just kill Talilan already.
