So, when I started writing this, there about 7 or 8 less pages, so it's possible there something hugely significant that I haven't mentioned in the earlier alphabeticals.
alexhans / Pooky
There's really not a lot to go on here. alex barely did anything, and Pooky is Pooky. The one thing I think is worth commenting on is alex's
Post #136, in which he says "@E_K: Max mafia team is 6 people. You forgot to count who receives the pm."
This is wrong; if you look closely at the sample PMs, you'll note that the person who receives the PM is one of the five sets of Xs in his own PM. Given that I think someone who had received a scum PM would be less likely to make this mistake, I consider this to be a towntell for alex.
I know Pooky has a well established history of not saying a lot, but really, there's a difference between keeping things brief, and not saying anything at all. Answering the quesion of whether or not the charter vote is actually serious would be nice, at the very least.
charter
Before reading him in isolation, I was finding the number of people asserting him as obvtown odd, since my feeling was that charter was somewhat hiding on the sidelines. After reading him in isolation, I think that's probably just because he hasn't said anything yet today, because he drove the BaB wagon early on based on perfectly good arguments, and made completely reasonable posts against Shabba and zu_faul once BaB's wagon was rolling along well. Even though 2/3 of them have flipped town, I don't have a problem with his choice of targets, or with the way he pursued them. Looking forward to seeing his thoughts on things once he's caught up on D2.
ekiM
Let's go over this again. Less than 24 hours into the game, ekiM made this post:
"I am deeply concerned by the continued absence of inHimshallibe, Kmd4390, Ojanen, populartajo, and Shabba. I'd wager there's at least one scum amongst those five players."
and voted Xyl. If you can't figure out how being "deeply concerned" about lurkers at that point is a joke, then I despair for humanity. If you are saying "Hey, take any random group of five players and there's probably scum in it, so you are not really saying anything here, ekiM": congratulations! YOU HAVE FOUND THE REST OF THE JOKE! Why is he saying there is probably scum in these five players? Because they are lurking, less than 24 hours into the game. If that part isn't serious, then what on earth makes you think that "one of them is probably scum" is? And if you do think that part is serious, then see above re: despair, humanity, etc.
His catchup post on D1 was overly focused on how much of a scumbo BaB was, which is not good. The only other person he really takes a strong stance on in that post is zu_faul (that part isn't bad). Mostly liking his thoughts D2 though. The recent spat with elvis, I don't really know what his point was, but I'm not seeing what the scum motivation is either, so I don't know why he suddenly got a bunch of votes for that.
Mostly I don't think he is scum because there are many suspect people voting him for bad reasons, and have been throughout the game.
elvis
I think elvis has been spectacularly wrong about virtually everything in this game, but I also think she's among the most likely to be town here. Gut read, but I really like how she has avoided getting completely tunneled; even when she's aggressively pursuing a case on someone, there are always pointed questions to other people, and also things like
Post #387 where she looks for verification of her thoughts from others.
KMD
I've been hung up too much on the slip thing, I think, and ignoring everything else he's done. People were attacking him based on that, I didn't buy it at all, this translated into my head as "KMD is town", but looking through his posts individually, I'm not so sure about that.
These days, it's all about the unvote off a vanilla claim, but what I'd really like to know is why the vote was there in the first place. His original reasoning was "Shea said I'm bad at mafia, so why did BaB listen to me?", which is ungodly levels of terrible, and when he votes, he says he's sticking with the scumteam he originally named, so does that mean he was sticking with the reasons, too? He never gave any others.
As far as the unvote goes, I do think it's perfectly possible to find someone scummy until they claim vanilla, and then start to find them town. From a theory point of view, it is terrible play to run someone up to a claim, then unvote when they claim vanilla, because all that will lead to is outed power roles, but sticking slavishly to what is theoretically the best play is often pretty terrible play too. I'm not sure I'd unvote off a vanilla claim on D1 even if it did give me the feeling that the player was town, but I certainly don't agree that it's something that only scum would ever do.
Ojanen
Really like her contributions throughout, especially her case against Yos. #1 town.
poptajo
Don't have any particular problems with the things he's posting, but it does concern me a little that he hasn't really got stuck into any arguments, he's mostly actually been sitting on the sidelines, like I thought charter was.
roflcopter
Oh, he's been agressive, that's how he plays town, he must be town. Uh, no. So right, some things that really bother me about rofl.
1. He's been claiming absolute certainty that KMD is scum since pretty much the start of the game, and yet both days, he's ended up voting for someone else on the assumption that they are KMD's partner. BaB yesterday, Serial today. This way, he doesn't have to bother coming up with new arguments, just keep on pushing the scum KMD line and lynching his 'buddies'.
2.
This post, right here, where rofl claims that he has never gambitted, and is always as sure as he acts. It's a lie.
See
this post in Mafia 84, where rofl explains a gambit he made by acting surer about something than he actually was.
See also
this post from this very game. "It's never worked 100% perfectly, but i don't let that stop me from acting like it will every game." There's got to be some serious self-delusion going for that not to equate to 'acting surer than you actually are'.
3. In
this post, rofl says that Claus has a solid case against Yos, but that Yos doesn't fit as a partner of BaB. So why, when BaB did NOT flip scum, has rofl gone ahead and started acting like he is confirmed town anyway? I think his post here was an attempt to placate Claus and push the BaB wagon through to mislynch, because he clearly had no intention of actually following up on this suspicion of Yos.
4. "Attacking Yos today is a scumtell". Hi there, crazy chainsaw defence. Pointing out flaws in Serial's case, that would be fine (and not difficult, by the way). Or even just saying "SC's Yos case is terrible" without bothering to explain why, that still works. But rofl never says anything about the actual case, he claims instead that the action of attacking Yos in itself is scummy, regardless of the validity of the attack.
Also, the list of games he gave me is incomplete. I know of one game that rofl has missed from the list here (Mafia 90). But a) I can't see any reason why he wouldn't want me looking at that game, and b) I can understand wanting to forget that horrible excuse for a game of Mafia, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he honestly overlooked that one. If there are any other omissions, though, I want to know about it.
SerialClergyman
So, I unvoted him based on his first substantial post, because I felt like his thoughts were fairly in line with my own; gut town read on KMD, scum read on Yos and zu_faul.
Since then, he started reaching more and more in his argument with Yos, and and it seems like he refused to back down or concede any points purely out of stubbornness. I think that's marginally more likely to come from scum than town, though I've seen enough tunneling townies to know that that's not a solid tell.
That said, I don't particularly like his latest attempt at peacemaking either, it feels like he's trying to perform a Jedi mind trick in acting like the fact that he has realised that he doesn't have a good case against Yos should make Yos think the same of him. That and the fact that he unvotes without voting anyone else. Cardinal sin, that.
Thesp
Talks a whole lot of sense. Really hoping he'll get back to us soon. I feel far less need for detail when talking about my town reads than my scum reads.
VP Baltar
Wow, some of his earlier posts have a whole lot of words for saying absolutely nothing. Very much a feeling of posting just to stay active, there's absolutely no strong stances taken on any subject at all.
Well, until he decides that I am such obvious scum that he will eat his hat if he's wrong. Which somehow isn't more worthy of a vote than ekiM saying that there is "probably scum" in the five people he was "deeply concerned" about lurking less than 24 hours into the game. I think that he didn't want to derail the BaB wagon by pushing anything with any strength, hence the vote staying on someone who wasn't around to respond and leaving the attack on me on the back burner to come back to it today.
Just going to respond directly to some stuff in the post where he finally gets around to voting me, since I haven't yet:
VP Baltar wrote:My point is that you were leading up to it in that post and then did not. You're saying that, more specifically, your intent to vote him
later
after his claim was clear. I'm saying no it was not. Your intent to vote him in that post seemed clear enough, then you didn't. There is a difference to me in those two points, even if they both speak to intent.
Then again I ask, why do you think I said I supported him claiming, if that had nothing to do with the fact that I obviously intended to vote him? You asked me why I didn't "condense it down and say something like 'I support the BnB wagon, but I think we need to hear a claim first'"; the answer is that you can't
condense
'I support a BaB claim' into that, but you pretty obviously can do the opposite.
VP Baltar wrote:iamausername wrote:I mean, in retrospect, the rofl vote probably was pretty pointless, but certainly no more so than keeping my vote on alex would have been.
Not really.
Now I believe you're just reflexively disagreeing with everything I say. How on earth would leaving my vote on alex have served any purpose at that point?
VP Baltar wrote:I don't see how you [ekiM] are saying that it was an RVS comment considering you implied your bandwagoning Xyl vote in that same post to be serious.
(Not from that post, I know.) The problem is that you are terming it as "an RVS comment" instead of "a joke". THERE IS NOT A DISTINCT LINE DIVIDING THE 'RANDOM' PART OF THE GAME FROM THE 'SERIOUS' PART.
Xylthixlm
Xyl really strikes me as town, though I am hard pressed to pin down exactly why that is. His reaction to BaB feels natural, not buying the case at first, but then agreeing that there was no reason for townBaB to argue that Xyl could be his scumbuddy. I like the way he shows a lot of willingness to accept the possibility that he is wrong.
Yosarian2
I didn't have a problem with Yos's posts throughout D1, and I still don't. The big point of contention for me is the way he retroactively claims to have been suspicious of KMD from the start of the game.
Post #525, after Ojanen points out how Yos's stance on the KMD/elvis thing at the time was that he didn't buy into either case, Yos brings up a quote where he does take more of a "KMD is scummy" stance. From reading this post, I'm sure you would assume that the quote comes from around the same time as the one Ojanen brings up, but it most definitely doesn't; this quote comes from
Post #431. The important point about that is that it's after KMD unvotes BaB for the vanilla claim. That was when Yos decided to go after KMD, and the fact that he acts like he'd been suspicious all along, and tries to use this quote to prove it, just does not speak to a pro-town motivation in his attack.
He's now saying that he went back and reread the KMD/elvis exchange, and that was when he decided that KMD was scummy. Now, that's a story that fits the facts, and would have made perfect sense if it wasn't coming immediately after insisting that you'd been saying KMD was scummy all along. As it is, though, you appear to be admitting to a lie right there.
zu_faul
So, right from the start, we've got some scumminess
here with the pretty blatant setting himself up to go along with whatever is convenient by claiming he is not dissatisfied with any of the major wagons. The rest of his contribution on D1 consists pretty much entirely of speaking out against the BaB wagon without making any attempt whatsoever to get any alternative going. He claims that his attempting to slow the BaB wagon is his usual scumhunting strategy, but if that is the case, what scum did it help him find?
There's also a few times where he says something without explaining it, and acts like he has already explained it in a previous post, despite this not actually being the case. Example; "I already said enough times why I disregard the "scum with Xyl" argument" in
this post. Not true. He's said several times that he disagrees with the argument, but reading his posts, I don't have a clue
why
he disagrees with it.
Then D2, he's decided to go after Serial because "You had a chance to come back in the game and all you produce is some questions and an attack on Yos2." This falls into the same problem I had with rofl above; he's dismissing the attack on Yos2 out of hand without giving any thought to the validity of the action. Secondly, this is some amazing hypocrisy; what has zu produced up to this point? He makes much the same point on ekiM, too. Those are easy, easy targets. zu has been just completely coasting, I really can't see anywhere that he's put any serious effort into scumhunting at all.
Unvote, Vote: roflcopter
Other lynches I'd support right now; zu_faul, VP Baltar and Yosarian2. Feeling most sure about rofl, though.
