Newbie 816 - Game over!

[purple princess]

Also come on havingfitz, you have been back for days now but you have failed to post anything, well anything which is worth while.

[havingfitz]

Also come on havingfitz, you have been back for days now but you have failed to post anything, well anything which is worth while.

PP...some of us have lives that don't involve the internet. Checking this site once a day or so and then having to try to make sense of all the information is made more difficult when one doesn't have a lot of time to dedicate is to the site and has never played the game before. Many of your posts that mention me express the negative opinion you have towards what I have to say. Please stop being a broken record...I will just take it for granted that anything I post will not be considered worth...while by you. I will post when I can and not on anyone else's schedule. If it is more frequent than what it takes me to not get removed from the game then great. On that note....thoughts I put together today at work before reading your continued criticism of me:

============================================

OK...apologizes again for the absence but an 8 day vacation with no internet access requires a lot of catching up to do…around the house…at work…emails…and then reams of Mafia information to try and process.

I’m still good with my TF/CP vote and at the moment will probably continue in that direction. I did not see anything suspicious with Dramonic (perhaps out of Mafia ignorance or not being able to see the tree for the forest) and I think at least one of his voters is scum. It’s not EB because he got the boot. I also think part of the reason EB got the boot was not because of any threat he may have been towards Mafia but because he had voted Dramonic as well and if he had voted for someone else…especially actual Mafia…him getting lynched would have cast suspicion on the person he voted for. I don’t think both mafia would have voted for Dramonic so I believe the other mafia would come from those voting others (or even more conveniently….not voting for anyone at all). In addition to suspicions on CP (because of TF)…who has now shifted attention towards me a bit (along with PP who continues to get frustrated at my lack of content and quality) I was initially leaning towards ZW for his pre-Dramonic lynch actions…but he is so inconsistent and erratic, I can not imagine someone mafia would bring such negative attention to themselves. For that reason alone I am tempering my suspicions towards ZW. I also think ZW’s erratic gameplay makes him an easy target for mafia to push others towards. I haven’t developed any suspicions of note yet on Cirdua and Manzcar so that leaves IKD, ZW, PP, and CP. My two main suspicions at the moment are therefore CP and PP. CP for his predecessors (TF) actions and subsequent vote on Dramonic…placing of suspicions on ZW/IKD/myself and defending PP (in posts 239 and 316). PP for not voting (and effectively removing herself from the suspicion of voting for town) and what I perceive as maintaining a distance from CP. I’ll try to post more after reviewing info further.

[purple princess]

@ Havingfitz I don't have a negitive opinion of you, it can be really hard to get some kind of read on some people especially if they haven't posted much, also reading someone elses opinion may make you look at what others have posted in a different light. As the game continues and the group gets smaller I find it is important for people to post otherwise this game can get very stale very quickly.

[zwetschenwasser]

princess calling me an ignorer (which is false, by the way)

Really? I have asked you stuff that you have seemed to just "skipped" which I have commented on before, and just for the record I am not defending IKD, I do think that either you or him are probably scum, I am just posting my thoughts and I do belive that you just answer what you want to answer and just blame it on your game style when you fail to responed to stuff.
Nice to see that you are posting a bit more now, is this because you have a few votes on you?

You are contradicting yourself. You've been defending IKD from the outset, and IKD himself said so.

[purple princess]

You've been defending IKD from the outset, and IKD himself said so.

Oh I'm sorry maybe we are not reading the same game, as I cannot see where I have been defending IKD from the outset, also, I must have missed the post where IKD says that I am defending him, is that the same post in which he admits that we are scum buddies!

[zwetschenwasser]

I don't understand your continued use of sarcasm. You seem very jittery and defensive at the moment.

[crazypianist1116]

I’m still good with my TF/CP vote and at the moment will probably continue in that direction.

Yet you aren't voting for me.

I did not see anything suspicious with Dramonic (perhaps out of Mafia ignorance or not being able to see the tree for the forest) and I think at least one of his voters is scum. It’s not EB because he got the boot.

Well duh.

I also think part of the reason EB got the boot was not because of any threat he may have been towards Mafia but because he had voted Dramonic as well and if he had voted for someone else…especially actual Mafia…him getting lynched would have cast suspicion on the person he voted for.

Speculating on night kills is just WIFOM.

I don’t think both mafia would have voted for Dramonic so I believe the other mafia would come from those voting others (or even more conveniently….not voting for anyone at all).

Such as yourself?

In addition to suspicions on CP (because of TF)…who has now shifted attention towards me a bit (along with PP who continues to get frustrated at my lack of content and quality)

Shifted my attention towards you? My attention is on zwet right now. The only two things I've said to you on Day 2 were:

Not sure when I'll have a chance to get on tomorrow and I don't want to miss the vote. I think TFs actions earned enough suspicion to have my vote regardless of the player now in their spot. crazypianist1116 made some good points and seems like a coherent person but I'm still voting for the player formerly known as TF.

Vote: crazypianist1116

Sure he's attacking TF, but he made no reason to attack me. At that same time, he didn't even bother to take a stance on IKD/Dramonic. Almost as if he was trying to prevent that day's lynch. He's V/LA now anyways so I'll ask more questions of him later.

and

Havingfitz, I'm waiting for your analysis.

Now is that really shifting my attention towards you?

I was initially leaning towards ZW for his pre-Dramonic lynch actions…but he is so inconsistent and erratic, I can not imagine someone mafia would bring such negative attention to themselves. For that reason alone I am tempering my suspicions towards ZW. I also think ZW’s erratic gameplay makes him an easy target for mafia to push others towards.

So you decide to attack me with no real solid evidence instead.

I haven’t developed any suspicions of note yet on Cirdua and Manzcar so that leaves IKD, ZW, PP, and CP. My two main suspicions at the moment are therefore CP and PP. CP for his predecessors (TF) actions and subsequent vote on Dramonic…placing of suspicions on ZW/IKD/myself

Placing suspicions on zwet was warranted. He even called himself scummy. I never really placed any suspicion on IKD. Placing suspicion on you was warranted as well because you weren't posting much, you only attacked me because of tfrench, and because of what I'm showing in this post.

My two main suspicions at the moment are therefore CP and PP. CP for... defending PP (in posts 239 and 316).

239:

Unvote

Purple Princess doesn't deserve a vote.
...
8. Votes pancakes claiming no lynch is bad for town.

I'd hardly call that defending purple princess. Tfrench voted for pancakes anyways not purple princess.

316:

You don't understand what I'm trying to say. I purposely started day two on an established scummy note, eg providing a horrible reason for voting imkingdavid. I then proceeded to get purple princess annoyed at my attack on imkingdavid, hoping to get either ikd or princess to get annoyed enough to reveal something scummy or otherwise a slip of some sort, which is exactly what happened. ikd confirmed my suspicions that he is actively trying to assuage the town's suspicion through over-towniness in his earlier post, in which he said the most scummy thing ever, that even though there was very good reason to vote on my scummy behavior, he wasn't going to for fear of being scrutinized more closely. My scummy behavior is EXACTLY why I think ikd is scum. Any normal town player would have clearly seen the huge amount of evidence I have for why I'm scum and voted accordingly, but ikd reveals his unwillingness to vote the prime suspect for an INCREDIBLY SCUMMY reason. The fact that purple princess immediately provided support, and now that ikd has jumped on purple's wagon to try to fix his earlier mistake confirm my suspicions. ikd and purple princess are the scum.

I understand your case against IKD because of this line:

Anyway, I'm tempted to vote you based on the fact that you're tunneling me with no reasoning, but that would be seen as OMGUS and would be used against me. But I will vote you if you keep this up.

But purple princess didn't "immediately provide support." Cirdua, manzcar, and I were attacking you as well.

Additionally, I don't really like the fact that you intentionally acted scummy to try and get the real scum to slip up. This could be used as an excuse for all scummy behavior, which makes it a bad excuse.

I wouldn't call that a defense either. I was attacking zwet by comparing purple princess to myself, cirdua, and manzcar.

I'm currently thinking whether or not to move my vote.

[zwetschenwasser]

Havingfitz's argument with pianist looks like a pointless debate between two townies.

[imkingdavid]

I don't understand your continued use of sarcasm. You seem very jittery and defensive at the moment.

You comment on her post, but don't answer it. You make accusations without providing specific examples. I would like for you to explain your lack of explanation.

Also you say that I don't answer any of your questions, but when I ask for you to remind me what your questions are, you don't, but rather accuse me of trying to dodge them. Seriously... how does that help?
Let me say it again, again:

Anyway, you still failed to respond to:

What, then, are you referring to when you accuse me of avoiding questions?

Havingfitz's argument with pianist looks like a pointless debate between two townies.

That's only because you can't look past your tunnel vision of me and purple being scum buddies. You can't get it into your mind that someone other that purple or myself are scum.
I play with an attitude of guilty until proven innocent. So I never mark anyone as townie. I just prioritize my attacks based on who is most scummy at the moment.

[Manzcar]

Fitz I think princess just wants to hear your opinions more. I also was glad to see you post with some insight it helps understand where everyone iscoming from.

Zwets I don't really see princess defending ikd. It looks more like she is attacking you. If you have a specific post that shows this defending can you point it out?

Princess what questions has zwets not answered?

Cird haven't heard from you lately what do you make of zwets arguments about a princess ikd scum team?

[purple princess]

I don't understand your continued use of sarcasm. You seem very jittery and defensive at the moment.

My use of sarcasm towards you is because I find you a joke, you keep going on about myself and IKD as being scum buddies, and you have said why you think IKD is scum but you cannot come up with anyother arguement towards me being scum apart form the fact that I have defended IKD, I will defend anybody if I belive that there may be a chance they are town. Also I am not jittery, but I am very defensive when you decided to "twist" what people have said. (see below)

You've been defending IKD from the outset, and IKD himself said so

Princess what questions has zwets not answered?

Sorry there seem to be quite a few, I wouldn't normally be this petty, but quite frankly I have had enough of zwetschenwasser.

Is there any reason why you needed to make sure everyone knew he was a scumhunting master?

Anyway, what was your aim from your post when you said, "as you continue to insist that your "teaching points" were helpful and lucid". I cannot see any purpose for that line except to elicit an emotional response from me, which you would have then tacked on to your case against me.

Why so rushed, Zwet? Still 4 days left.

Your willing for this to happen without a response from him first? as electricbadger said we stil have 4 days left, your vote seems a little rushed, sure I am steering my vote towards ikd right now, but it would be unfair to lynch him before he has a chance to responed.

Zwets how does IKD being alive constitute a good reason for his lynch?

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.

Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

Zwets do you plan on explaining your case for IKD and Princess being scum buddies?

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why? Because princess doesn't agree with everything you say? Because she doesn't support your "case" against ikd, the only reason you'v egiven us to lynch him is "he isn't lynched/killed yet". Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem to be a good reason to lynch someone.

I wonder, am I scum too now because I don't blindly follow you?

Would you care to elaborate on why you think I am scum? is this omgus because I voted for you? You seem to be very good at making these claims that people are scum but not very good at backing them up, with your scumdar well and truely broken over the dramonic lynch do you think anyone is going to belive you when you just write one line on who you think is scum?

[crazypianist1116]

ATTN: I will be V/LA from Saturday until Thursday or Friday

Visiting colleges.

[imkingdavid]

Princess what questions has zwets not answered?

Sorry there seem to be quite a few, I wouldn't normally be this petty, but quite frankly I have had enough of zwetschenwasser.

Plus the one I quoted twice so far (see my previous post) that hasn't been answered. If anyone's dodging questions, it's zwet.

[zwetschenwasser]

Nice contradiction, purple princess. First you tell me that you think that one of me and ikd is scum, then you say that you're defending IKD because you think he's town.

[havingfitz]

I’m still good with my TF/CP vote and at the moment will probably continue in that direction.

Yet you aren't voting for me.

The last time I voted was for you and I have not seen anything to change my opinion. Reasons mentioned in post 351 only solidify my suspicions towards you. Unless something changes my mind, when I vote again [which there is no rush to do…we have over a week] it will be for you.

I did not see anything suspicious with Dramonic (perhaps out of Mafia ignorance or not being able to see the tree for the forest) and I think at least one of his voters is scum. It’s not EB because he got the boot.

Well duh.

Realize that was stating obvious but I was simply eliminating EB from the four who voted Dramonic. That leaves you, ZW and IKD. Of those three my suspicions are towards you and I do not think both mafia would have voted on the same bandwagon.

I also think part of the reason EB got the boot was not because of any threat he may have been towards Mafia but because he had voted Dramonic as well and if he had voted for someone else…especially actual Mafia…him getting lynched would have cast suspicion on the person he voted for.

Speculating on night kills is just WIFOM.

PP asked for my opinion following the night kill…how could it be anything other than speculation (short of stating the obvious which I had already done).

I don’t think both mafia would have voted for Dramonic so I believe the other mafia would come from those voting others (or even more conveniently….not voting for anyone at all).

Such as yourself?

Well duh. I think there is a mafia vote within the Dramonic bandwagon which points me to CP-IKD-and ZW of which I feel strongest towards you and a mafia vote not on Dramonic which points me to Manzcar-Cirdua-PP of which I feel strongest towards PP.

In addition to suspicions on CP (because of TF)…who has now shifted attention towards me a bit (along with PP who continues to get frustrated at my lack of content and quality)

Shifted my attention towards you? My attention is on zwet right now. The only two things I've said to you on Day 2 were:

Not sure when I'll have a chance to get on tomorrow and I don't want to miss the vote. I think TFs actions earned enough suspicion to have my vote regardless of the player now in their spot. crazypianist1116 made some good points and seems like a coherent person but I'm still voting for the player formerly known as TF.

Vote: crazypianist1116

Sure he's attacking TF, but he made no reason to attack me. At that same time, he didn't even bother to take a stance on IKD/Dramonic. Almost as if he was trying to prevent that day's lynch. He's V/LA now anyways so I'll ask more questions of him later.

and

Havingfitz, I'm waiting for your analysis.

Now is that really shifting my attention towards you?

No…this is --> Post 299

“My top suspects as of now are probably zwet and havingfitz. “

To which…and IMO supports a CP and PP link….PP in the very next post chimed in with support to you and further attack on my play.

I was initially leaning towards ZW for his pre-Dramonic lynch actions…but he is so inconsistent and erratic, I can not imagine someone mafia would bring such negative attention to themselves. For that reason alone I am tempering my suspicions towards ZW. I also think ZW’s erratic gameplay makes him an easy target for mafia to push others towards.

So you decide to attack me with no real solid evidence instead.

Where in this game is anyone getting any real solid evidence? I gave my reasons for suspecting you in post 351.

I haven’t developed any suspicions of note yet on Cirdua and Manzcar so that leaves IKD, ZW, PP, and CP. My two main suspicions at the moment are therefore CP and PP. CP for his predecessors (TF) actions and subsequent vote on Dramonic…placing of suspicions on ZW/IKD/myself

Placing suspicions on zwet was warranted. He even called himself scummy. I never really placed any suspicion on IKD. Placing suspicion on you was warranted as well because you weren't posting much, you only attacked me because of tfrench, and because of what I'm showing in this post.

My two main suspicions at the moment are therefore CP and PP. CP for... defending PP (in posts 239 and 316).

239:

Unvote

Purple Princess doesn't deserve a vote.
...
8. Votes pancakes claiming no lynch is bad for town.

I'd hardly call that defending purple princess. Tfrench voted for pancakes anyways not purple princess.

I would call the comment “Purple Princess doesn't deserve a vote. “ defending her.

316:

You don't understand what I'm trying to say. I purposely started day two on an established scummy note, eg providing a horrible reason for voting imkingdavid. I then proceeded to get purple princess annoyed at my attack on imkingdavid, hoping to get either ikd or princess to get annoyed enough to reveal something scummy or otherwise a slip of some sort, which is exactly what happened. ikd confirmed my suspicions that he is actively trying to assuage the town's suspicion through over-towniness in his earlier post, in which he said the most scummy thing ever, that even though there was very good reason to vote on my scummy behavior, he wasn't going to for fear of being scrutinized more closely. My scummy behavior is EXACTLY why I think ikd is scum. Any normal town player would have clearly seen the huge amount of evidence I have for why I'm scum and voted accordingly, but ikd reveals his unwillingness to vote the prime suspect for an INCREDIBLY SCUMMY reason. The fact that purple princess immediately provided support, and now that ikd has jumped on purple's wagon to try to fix his earlier mistake confirm my suspicions. ikd and purple princess are the scum.

I understand your case against IKD because of this line:

Anyway, I'm tempted to vote you based on the fact that you're tunneling me with no reasoning, but that would be seen as OMGUS and would be used against me. But I will vote you if you keep this up.

But purple princess didn't "immediately provide support." Cirdua, manzcar, and I were attacking you as well.

Additionally, I don't really like the fact that you intentionally acted scummy to try and get the real scum to slip up. This could be used as an excuse for all scummy behavior, which makes it a bad excuse.

I wouldn't call that a defense either. I was attacking zwet by comparing purple princess to myself, cirdua, and manzcar.

ZW was focusing his attentions on IKD and PP to which IMO you gave weak support to his IKD suspicions followed by defense of PP.

[zwetschenwasser]

purple and ikd, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking me. In your next posts, please give me a list of the questions you want answered and I will do my best to answer satisfactorily in a way that confirms you are scum.

[imkingdavid]

purple and ikd, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking me. In your next posts, please give me a list of the questions you want answered and I will do my best to answer satisfactorily in a way that confirms you are scum.

Purple just gave you an entire post (#360) of questions that you have left unanswered. And my post (#358) has a question which you failed to answer twice. Please answer those, as well read through and answer any that we might have missed that you failed to answer.

To me, you sound like you're completely uninterested in the game. If that's the case, please replace out so everyone else can enjoy playing with an active, competent player. Otherwise, actually start playing the game and answering questions and such.

Manzcar: in your post, you ask people for their opinions and ideas about things, but fail to give your own. What are your thought's on zwet's arguments against purple and myself as well as our arguments in response? And what are your views on havingfitz's discussion with crazy?

[Manzcar]

I've given my opinions and ideas especially on Zwets, but I will give a quick feel on Zwets. I have a hard time with Zwet. I have stated that before. I don't like the way he is playing and he is my main suspect thus why my FoS is on him. He has continued to throw out accusations with out real backing. Stating that his whole playstyle is how he plays as town but when asked states that his playstyle as scum isn't really different which shouts WIFOM, as I pointed out, but he states it isn't. His accusations that IKD and Princess are scum buddies to me doesn't hold for me. Princess to me hasn't defended IKD but has been attacking Zwet and using his playstyle against IKD as reasoning. In fact Princess has stated that she thinks IKD could very well be scum. He also continues to not answer questions and even when Princess puts them up he ignores them and then asks for someone to post the questions. We still have some time to the day so we shouldn't be in any hurry.

Fitz's post to me was very good to see. He hasn't been very vocal and some of his points are interesting. I found it interesting that he suspected Zwets but has decided that his eratic play is too much to be scum because scum wouldn't do that. It is pure WIFOM almost like the "too townie" stuff. So I am not sure why he is so willing to let Zwets off the hook for the exact reason why I have a problem with Zwets. But I do like his thoughts about CP because they line up with mine. I am not going to forget French's actions just because CP has replaced into the game. His current play is nothing that screams scum but I have been keeping my eyes on him. I definitely want to see more from Fitz to get a better read on where his motives are directed. Unlike Zwets I am not willing to dismiss any back and forth discussion as town.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry guys, I had to go to Florida unexpectedly. My dad's going into the hospital for surgery. I'll try to get to Modding sometime today (Friday).


Vel

[Cirdua]

Cird haven't heard from you lately what do you make of zwets arguments about a princess ikd scum team?

I'm sorry for being so silent, but I didn't really had anything new to comment on the zwet-ikd discussion and I didn't want to repeat everything others had already said. It's also been a busy week (school is about to begin )
I don't think the chance of PP and ikd both being scum is very high, I don't know if there is anything as Too Obvious but I don't think one scum member would attract attention to him/her to defend the other one. Unless some other people are also defending that scum member but they still wouldn't come forward in such an obvious manner. I don't think that defending someone against arguments like "you're scum because you ain't dead and you got mad at me for annoying you" can be seen as scummy. I also don't like it how zwets is indeed tunneling ikd and PP to the extent of dismissing all other discussion as "townie-vs-townie" disputes. His weird gameplay isn't helping either. I'm starting to wonder if zwet even looked at the Being a Good IC wiki page.

Where in this game is anyone getting any real solid evidence?

Oh there are enough ways of gaining solid evidence:If someone gets killed his alignment is revealed. If you're a cop you can investigate people, which will reveal their alignment. If you're scum you know who isn' t scum and with the F11 setup they can even know if there are two or only one power roles in the game.

[purple princess]

Nice contradiction, purple princess. First you tell me that you think that one of me and ikd is scum, then you say that you're defending IKD because you think he's town.

I think you are more scummy than IKD imo.

purple and ikd, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking me. In your next posts, please give me a list of the questions you want answered and I will do my best to answer satisfactorily in a way that confirms you are scum.

I don't have any question I would like to ask you right now, The only reason I had mentioned you avoiding questions was because you said that IKD was ignoring your questions when you were doing excactly the same. Manzcar asked me what questions you had failed to answer, so I posted them, as you can see it wasn't just one or two.

@ havingfitz, do you find ignoring questions pro town behaviour? Do you think that IKD is sounding "too townie" therefore must be scum?

[havingfitz]

Fitz's post to me was very good to see. He hasn't been very vocal and some of his points are interesting. I found it interesting that he suspected Zwets but has decided that his eratic play is too much to be scum because scum wouldn't do that. It is pure WIFOM almost like the "too townie" stuff. So I am not sure why he is so willing to let Zwets off the hook for the exact reason why I have a problem with Zwets. But I do like his thoughts about CP because they line up with mine. I am not going to forget French's actions just because CP has replaced into the game. His current play is nothing that screams scum but I have been keeping my eyes on him. I definitely want to see more from Fitz to get a better read on where his motives are directed. Unlike Zwets I am not willing to dismiss any back and forth discussion as town.

I have yet to get a grip with the whole WIFOM and perhaps I am more prone to latching onto the obvious (or making mountains out of molehills). However, since I can’t operate on Mafia experience I have to go on what my gut tells me. As annoying as ZW was in the early stages of the game…I think he had settled down a bit and I find it hard to believe someone who was mafia would work so hard to p;ss off the rest of the players. At the moment he appears to stand as equal a chance of getting lynched for people suspecting him as mafia as he does from people just being annoyed by him. If in the end he turns out to be mafia I will consider it a lesson learned in misdirection (and WIFOM?).

As for motives…the only motive I have is to try and figure out the game and determine a best guess as to who I think mafia are. ZW seems to be an easy suspect at the moment but like you said…in conjunction with TF’s earlier actions and what I have perceived since he was replaced…I am more suspicious of CP. I have also become suspicious of PP for reasons mentioned in post 351 combined with my earlier suspicions of her predecessor pancakes.

@ havingfitz, do you find ignoring questions pro town behaviour? Do you think that IKD is sounding "too townie" therefore must be scum?

Are you insinuating that I am ignoring questions or someone else? I would not be surprised if a few have got past me. Depending on what the question was I would not think it was pro town behaviour. If a lot of questions had been asked of someone and some were repetitive or of little value (like my posts) I would not necessarily see ignoring them as good or bad.

I need to look closer at all the non- CP and PP members so I have yet to form an opinion on IKD to the same extant I have formed opinions on some others. What does too townie sound like? Is it a serious question or are you turning my rationale on ZW against me?

[purple princess]

Are you insinuating that I am ignoring questions or someone else?

No this was not directed at you, was just asking in general, does it seem pro town?

[havingfitz]

Are you insinuating that I am ignoring questions or someone else?

No this was not directed at you, was just asking in general, does it seem pro town?

I would tend to think ignoring questions was not pro town....but like I said....it would depend on the question and the context of when it was asked. I would either have a neutral feeling towards that situation or think it was a bit suspicious.

[havingfitz]

BTW all...I leave for the States tomorrow so I may not be able to post again until Monday. Have a good weekend.