/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

is anyone around right now?

Same here, have a contribution to make?

[roflcopter]

baltar, if you're not going to come back to the serialclergyman wagon, can you give me a better understanding of why you left it in the first place?

I have a stronger scum read on ekiM and username, though SC's continued neglect here isn't exactly making me

not

want to kill him. Like I said before, I'd like to hear more actual opinions and comments from him so I can either prove or disprove my suspicion.

That's your problem right there. If I think someone hasn't said enough to form an opinion on them, I lynch them.

i agree with this, which is why i want baltar back on the clergyman wagon

[SerialClergyman]

Lurking, lying, trying to not have an opinion other than "Yos is scum" and "KMD looks town". His posts don't seem like he wants to find scum, they look like he wants Yos2 lynched. He's also fishing for roles.

Dear God! You should lynch THAT guy! I thought you were asked for the case on ME though.

Lurking tick, never disagreed, gave RL, out-of-game reasons, sorry etc.

Lying? Intruiging. There seems to be a preoccupation with language instead of argument on this site sometimes. The argument that Yos2 said exactly what BAB said when BAB voted him is a poor one. Let me try to phrase my argument against Yos2 so that you can understand. If someone asked me what's going on and I said Zu Faul voted me because he thinks I need some pressure, but I'm totally here now and posting so I don't know what his problem is', then that's a pretty dishonest way of describing the situation.

And yet if someone were to question me on it, I could always post a quote of his voting post, where he does indeed say:

But Vote: SerialClergyman for now. He needs some pressure on him. ekiM needs to post as well as him.

IT'S RIGHT THERE YOU LIAR I SAID HE VOTED ME FOR PRESSURE AND THERE'S THE VOTE etc etc in your standard 'caps lock makes me right' voice. Regardless of the fact that Zu Faul did vote me orinigally for one reason, he is obviously voting for a number of reasons, one of which I ironically have hopefully destroyed by talking about them.
Yos2 did the same thing, he quoted only the reasoning in the inital voting post when the actual reasons were much deeper. Whether you think it's reasonable of Yos2 to do what he did or not, my point is still valid, and it's certainly not lying, despite the language games.

Well, I'm not deliberately trying to not have opinions, I'm just not going to make up fake ones if I'm not getting much of a read. Sorry. Plus I have a few - I think rofl is town who is genuinely trying to hunt scum, just doing it poorly. His gift is being able to encourage wagons and tunnel on someone he thinks is scummy in a powerful way, his weakness is an epic case of confirmation bias. (Not that I'm much better with that, but you know). Xyl is voting via his own way, things like following people he thinks are town rather than looking at the case individually. That's just how he plays, null. e_k seems town to me, despite some seriously bad reasoning at times (see debate about OMGUS and hypocracy around 618ish.) Aside from that, and Yos/Kmd, I can't help you really. Unless you wanted a specific read and I'll be glad to tell you my observations.

I think you argument about finding scum vs wanting Yos2 lynched would be a good one if I was hopping on the flavour of the day bandwagon, but I think I'm the only one who's voting Yos atm.. Seems like a poor pick of person to rail against for an easy lynch.

And rolefishing has been an interesting charge. I'm not quite sure how this argument pans out, so I'm going to envisage how they were thinking it was going to go. I've been accused of rolefishing for two things, my description of rofl's chainsaw and my pointing out of e_k's ominous ellipsis.

So rofl accuses me of chainsaw defending kmd and at the same time says attacking Yos2 is practically a scumtell. I say unless you've got some info about Yos2 that I don't have, you're also potentially chainsawing.
Now, were I scum, I imagine my attackers feel I was hoping my dastardly deed would turn the conversation to something like:
'Well I do have info about Yos2, I'm a cop and he's innocent wait DAMN' and Serial kerpows the PR to the congratulations of all his mafia buddies. Absurd, I know.

The second lot of rolefishing I was accused of via picture, which was certainly more enjoyable if not more convincing, was for this statement to elvis when she voted me while defending Yos2 against an OMGUS accusation I made:

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone?

I think that my attackers feel the conversation, were I scum and rolefishing, would go something like:
'would you share the rest of your reasons?'
'Yes, I'm a cop who has a guilty on you wait DAMN' and then Serial kerpows the PR to the congratulations of all his mafia buddies.
Absurd, I know.

The short answer is both scenarios are stupid, laughable things to describe as rolefishing. If they were rolefishing, my friendly attackers would at least have to describe them as the most lame and unlikely-to-succede attempts ever.

Or they could realise that the first statement to rofl was and is absolutely true, his argument is hypocritical unless he has some reason to think Yos2 is town beyond gut, and the second statement was simply trying to work out why elvis wouldn't vote someone else because I was too scummy to pass up and then give barely any reasons for it.

In other news:

Yos2 has finally entered puberty, testosterone started flowing though his body and he built up the courage to vote me after the wagon had grown to a sizable number. Unfortunately he decided to concentrate on my summary of his position as something which finally pushed him over the edge, which again points back to OMGUS. It's also probably the least important of all the charges made against me, which is baffling.

Interestingly, he misread my point saying he was looking for 'semi-tells and rhetoric' to read 'scumtells and rhetoric' and got his underpants in a twist about it. I think this is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Rather than re-read what I wrote and try to work out why I was attacking him for looking for scumtells (and thus realise his mistake) he's already on the wagon for it.

But, it could be worse. I could be accusing you of lying and misquoting me and twisting my words, and by language I'd be 100% correct. But it's the argument that's important, and while I think lots of what you write is scummy, that was just a simple misread.

[SerialClergyman]

Continued neglect. Charming. What has it been, 24 hours since my last post?

Anything in particular you'd like an answer to tomorrow? (I'm off to bed, 3:30am.)

[elvis_knits]

is anyone around right now?

pooky, come dance with us!

[roflcopter]

charter, thesp - why aren't you voting anyone right now?

[roflcopter]

serial, when you ask a question to which the only answer that will dissuade you from your course of action is some kind of role information, you are role fishing.

[roflcopter]

and on that note, pooky, come back and vote for serialclergyman

[SerialClergyman]

That question was? I wasn't asking you a question at all, I was pointing out that Yos2 and Kmd are both unconfirmed, and you and I were both attacking their attackers. If one of us is chainsawing, the other was too.

[mith]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

SerialClergyman: 5 (elvis_knits, roflcopter, Xylthixlm, Yosarian2, zu_Faul)
ekiM: 4 (Kmd4390, Ojanen, populartajo, VP Baltar)
charter: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)
Kmd4390: 1 (ekiM)
Yosarian2: 1 (SerialClergyman)
zu_Faul: 1 (iamausername)

Not Voting: 2 (charter, Thesp)

[SerialClergyman]

rofl, if I flipped town, would you eat your hat?

[roflcopter]

here's the gist of the conversation we had -

rofl: you shouldn't vote for yos, he is town
serial: unless you tell me a role based reason to believe he's town, i will continue to vote for him
rofl: fine i'll just lynch you

it was wrapped up in your whole "but you're doing it too" schtick, but the main thrust of "i'll need to see role info before i change my mind" is there, and thats role fishing

[roflcopter]

rofl, if I flipped town, would you eat your hat?

no but i might eat baltar's

[SerialClergyman]

Absolute crap.

the gist of the conversation was

rofl: You're chainsawing for Kmd.
Serial: Well, by that logic YOU'RE chainsawing for Yos2
rofl: Ok, vote.

[SerialClergyman]

rofl, if I flipped town, would you eat your hat?

no but i might eat baltar's

In that case, it might be the first time we get to pull a hat out of a rabbit!!!!


(That entire post was set up for that gag while brushing my teeth. You may all thank me for the gift... of laughter.)

[Xylthixlm]

here's the gist of the conversation we had -

rofl: you shouldn't vote for yos, he is town
serial: unless you tell me a role based reason to believe he's town, i will continue to vote for him
rofl: fine i'll just lynch you

it was wrapped up in your whole "but you're doing it too" schtick, but the main thrust of "i'll need to see role info before i change my mind" is there, and thats role fishing

Wait what? I don't remember that at all.

[roflcopter]

Absolute crap.

the gist of the conversation was

rofl: You're chainsawing for Kmd.
Serial: Well, by that logic YOU'RE chainsawing for Yos2
rofl: Ok, vote.

yeah, see, you just left out the part where you said this:

Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have

and this

If his point is that I am chainsawing because I'm defending KMD by attacking Yos2 and he makes that WHILE defending Yos2 by attacking me, he's got some explaining to do to show the difference.

[roflcopter]

@xyl - reread the bottom of page 24

[SerialClergyman]

Yep, I said that, so what. I clearly ddn't expect you to claim in response to my question, did I? How exactly does that conversation go?

Those posts are 100% true. The only reason your argument isn't completely hypocritical is if you were sure that Yos2 was town (or knew he was scum with you - then it's just a lie).

Your charge of chainsawing wasn't any more convincing than ANYONE who attacks ANYONE who is attacking a third party, and it was perfectly demonstrated BY YOUR OWN VERY ATTACK.

I can't be clearer than that.

Genuinely going to bed now, personally hurt you didn't laugh at my hilarious and well-constructed joke.

[roflcopter]

don't worry, i chortled

the problem is your motivation for asking me to be clearer on why i think yos2 is town. you've already stated that you think I'M town, and you're making it very clear by your statements that you won't accept any reason to think yos2 is town other than some kind of role based information. there is no way for me to answer without benefiting scum. either i confirm myself as a power role, or i confirm myself as not having role info on yos2, meaning you can continue on your merry way trying to lynch him and the scum don't have to worry about nking me. this is why i didn't answer at all, and instead voted you, because the very act of trying to get further information out of me on the subject was scummy.

[Xylthixlm]

Absolute crap.

the gist of the conversation was

rofl: You're chainsawing for Kmd.
Serial: Well, by that logic YOU'RE chainsawing for Yos2
rofl: Ok, vote.

yeah, see, you just left out the part where you said this:

Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have

and this

If his point is that I am chainsawing because I'm defending KMD by attacking Yos2 and he makes that WHILE defending Yos2 by attacking me, he's got some explaining to do to show the difference.

Nope, sorry, don't see the scummy here. He used rhetoric to make the point that you could be accused of doing the same thing you accused him of.

[Xylthixlm]

don't worry, i chortled

the problem is your motivation for asking me to be clearer on why i think yos2 is town. you've already stated that you think I'M town, and you're making it very clear by your statements that you won't accept any reason to think yos2 is town other than some kind of role based information.

I didn't get that from his posts at all.

[elvis_knits]

Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have

Serial, what did you mean by that if you were not asking about investigation?

[Xylthixlm]

Taking quote in context...

5) I particularly like this from rofl:

serial is chainsawing for kmd hard, and at this point attacking yos is a scumtell.

Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have, looks like you're doing exactly the same thing.

For the record, I did not interpret that as asking about investigation when I read it.

[elvis_knits]

So what did you think serial meant, xyl?