Newbie 830: Game Over

[AlmasterGM]

College move-in day was yesterday. Give me a break. The amount of activity this game had last round was insanely abnormal and I will need time to fully analyze it. The round also ended much quicker than it should have.

I'm town. Don't be rash. Do not vote. Thanks.

[Thok]

Official Vote Count (deadline 9/15)

DarkLightA (0):
Maemuki (0):
AlmasterGM (0):
AfroLaX (0):
moose200x (0):

Not Voting (5): (DarkLightA, Maemuki, AlmasterGM, AfroLaX, moose200x)

[moose200x]

College move-in day was yesterday. Give me a break. The amount of activity this game had last round was insanely abnormal and I will need time to fully analyze it. The round also ended much quicker than it should have.

I'm town. Don't be rash. Do not vote. Thanks.

Saying your town does nothing. Scum trying to hide.

[AfroLaX]

HoS: Moose

Quick hammer + "omg ur town? I can't believe that lol" response. In addition to all the other dodgy things I've accused him of since the beginning.

If you were town and somebody claimed that they were cop and had a guilty on you would that not make them seem scum to you?

This defense is severely lacking. You hammered down on someone who claimed to have investigated you, which implies that you want to survive. It's not necessarily about him being scummy. From a pro-town perspective, if a guy claims cop & says you are scum, you shouldn't be worried - because unless he is pulling a very risky move, he is obvscum if you flip town, therefore you rather try establish what is going on [and extend to day to find his partner] than quick-lynch. I'm sure through more probing & pressure, he would have backed off from his claim & if he didn't and you got voted off... Then so what? He was almost definitely going to be voted off the next round. While in hindsight this play-out would have lost us the game [assuming you were pro-town & got lynched D2], from your perspective it should have been fine to trade off because you were sure he was scum. Short days hurt town, you made a day short in a bid to survive before a bandwagon hit you. Therefore I find it difficult to digest your defense that you hammered him after like a few hours of Day 2 "because he seemed scummy" - I think you're just looking for an excuse for your quick-lynch because whether SBSS was a cop or not, you were going to get lynched.

Anyway, I think I was

more

than reasonably justified in hammering CSL. He attacked me with terrifically bad logic, defended you when the heat was on & he said a bunch of dumb + AtE things. Also, it had been 22 pages, most people were fairly sure that we had at least one of them - and if CSL flipped scum, moose would've been the next lynch. Moose ended Day 2 incredibly early and went "omg cant believe he was just a bad townie lol". I don't see how my actions & reasoning make me suspicious, especially over him & the lurkage. Darklight seems to have gone a bit lurkish after he almost got bandwagoned on D1.

However, I'm still unwilling to lay down a vote until more talking happens from the other 3. Even though I'm very suspicious of Moose, it'll look pretty stupid if he gets lynched [and flips town] & both scum just sat lurking. There are 2 scum alive in this game, which means that even if Moose is one, there is still another here.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP: VLA - Got university now for the next few hours.

[moose200x]

HoS: Moose

Quick hammer + "omg ur town? I can't believe that lol" response. In addition to all the other dodgy things I've accused him of since the beginning.

If you were town and somebody claimed that they were cop and had a guilty on you would that not make them seem scum to you?

This defense is severely lacking. You hammered down on someone who claimed to have investigated you, which implies that you want to survive. It's not necessarily about him being scummy. From a pro-town perspective, if a guy claims cop & says you are scum, you shouldn't be worried - because unless he is pulling a very risky move, he is obvscum if you flip town, therefore you rather try establish what is going on [and extend to day to find his partner] than quick-lynch. I'm sure through more probing & pressure, he would have backed off from his claim & if he didn't and you got voted off... Then so what? He was almost definitely going to be voted off the next round. While in hindsight this play-out would have lost us the game [assuming you were pro-town & got lynched D2], from your perspective it should have been fine to trade off because you were sure he was scum. Short days hurt town, you made a day short in a bid to survive before a bandwagon hit you. Therefore I find it difficult to digest your defense that you hammered him after like a few hours of Day 2 "because he seemed scummy" - I think you're just looking for an excuse for your quick-lynch because whether SBSS was a cop or not, you were going to get lynched.

Anyway, I think I was

more

than reasonably justified in hammering CSL. He attacked me with terrifically bad logic, defended you when the heat was on & he said a bunch of dumb + AtE things. Also, it had been 22 pages, most people were fairly sure that we had at least one of them - and if CSL flipped scum, moose would've been the next lynch. Moose ended Day 2 incredibly early and went "omg cant believe he was just a bad townie lol". I don't see how my actions & reasoning make me suspicious, especially over him & the lurkage. Darklight seems to have gone a bit lurkish after he almost got bandwagoned on D1.

However, I'm still unwilling to lay down a vote until more talking happens from the other 3. Even though I'm very suspicious of Moose, it'll look pretty stupid if he gets lynched [and flips town] & both scum just sat lurking. There are 2 scum alive in this game, which means that even if Moose is one, there is still another here.

Look you epic fail of a mafia player. Ya know what, I don't care if i get modkilled or banned or whatever but if your not FUCKING SCUM THEN YOU LIKE SPONGEBOB ARE THE WORST PLAYERS IN THIS DAMN GAME. I AM SITTING HERE AND CANNOT BEILEVE THIS ARGUMENT! I DIDNT THINK HE WAS SCUMMY I KNEW HE WAS. HE LIED TO ME. HE SAID HE WAS COP AND GOT A GUILTY WHICH I KNOW IS A LIE. THESE NEWBIE GAMES FAIL CUZ OF IDIOTS LIKE YOU. WTF IS YOUR DEAL? WHY NOT PLAY THE GAME WITH SOME DAMN KNOWLEDGE AND TRY TO HELP THE TEAM.

SPONGEBOB COST US THE GAME, NOT ME.

[AfroLaX]

Uh.

Look you epic fail of a mafia player.

Ad hominem.

but if your not FUCKING SCUM THEN YOU LIKE SPONGEBOB ARE THE WORST PLAYERS IN THIS DAMN GAME.

More Ad hominem [Not to mention false dilemma].

I AM SITTING HERE AND CANNOT BEILEVE THIS ARGUMENT!

I guess this is his way of refuting a fairly well-reasoned idea. I assume you guys all see what's wrong with this...

I DIDNT THINK HE WAS SCUMMY I KNEW HE WAS. HE LIED TO ME. HE SAID HE WAS COP AND GOT A GUILTY WHICH I KNOW IS A LIE.

I'm not arguing with this [though just because he wasn't cop, it doesn't mean he was scum - that would be false dilemma], I'm simply saying that it's his purported reason for quick-lynching SBSS &

it does not sufficiently justify it

[See: My previous post].

THESE NEWBIE GAMES FAIL CUZ OF IDIOTS LIKE YOU.

More Ad hominem.

WTF IS YOUR DEAL? WHY NOT PLAY THE GAME WITH SOME DAMN KNOWLEDGE AND TRY TO HELP THE TEAM.

So I take it he is implying that I must be playing without knowledge of some kind & against 'the team' [meaning town] & with such an irrational style of reasoning that he cannot understand me...

All this,

solely

because I accuse him of being scum.

That is utterly ridiculous.

For proof, see: Any post I've made, honestly...

SPONGEBOB COST US THE GAME, NOT ME.

Spongebob did cost yes, but the game is by no means over.

Conclusion:

1) Ad hominem (3 instances).
2) Appealing to Emotion [nerdraging in a bid to prove innocence].
3) Avoiding dealing with actual accusation [By trying to distract/deal with wrong issues/attack player].
4) CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
5)

Extensive

use of CrapLogic™

My response: YAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH!!

I would vote him, but as I'm now saying for the 3rd time; More talking from the lurkers please.

[DarkLightA]

I'm town.

Don't be rash.

Do not vote.

Thanks.

I said clearly "Almaster and Mae: Top suspects please". Now this is what we get in response. A role claim, and a Do not vote. Doesn't this seem scummy?

I mean: "I'm town, don't vote me". To me that seems obv-scum, I don't know about you guys.

@Mae: I might have missed it, but please specify your top suspects in order.

[DarkLightA]

Addition to prev post:

After re-reading my post, I realize this:

He sais he is town, but then sais

DON'T VOTE

. Wouldn't it be enough, if he were town, to just leave it at he was town?

Also, guys, please don't vote yet. WHAT-SO-EVER. Even if a band wagon is starting with 1-2 people, remember that these might be the two mafia.

[Maemuki]

Well, I said that my top suspects are moose and Almaster on a previous post, though I'm not sure on which. I'm trying to do a PBPA on moose right now, but he sure has posted a lot.

Also, maybe he [Almaster] wanted to get his point across better....I dunno why though.

[DarkLightA]

Also, maybe he [Almaster] wanted to get his point across better....I dunno why though.

Why are you defending him?

[Maemuki]

No reason.
That's just how I understood it.

[DarkLightA]

"Do not vote" still jumps at me though..

[moose200x]

SORRY, Was drunk last night.

[DarkLightA]

I'm not sure that I believe that moose..

[moose200x]

I'm not sure that I believe that moose..

You don't believe I was drunk? Please tell me head that.

[AlmasterGM]

Hello everyone, I apologize for lurking. For those of you that are suspicious of me, you have a right to do so. My only excuse was that I moved into college just this week, so I have been very busy. As far as the accusations over my town claim and request not to vote go, I merely said that because I wanted to stress that a vote would mean game over. I'm here now, though, so let's get straight down to business. Here is my list:

SCUM

DarkLightA
moose200x
Maemuki
AfroLaX
AlmasterGM

TOWN

As you can see, my top suspect is DLA. Here is a post-by-post analysis of why.

1 - "get the discussion going, and my vote is open for change."

The first part is pointless jabber intended to appear pro-town. Obviously we want to get the discussion going. Interestingly, though, DLA doesn't actually have anything to say himself. The second part is fencesitting 101. It's always pretty clear that votes during the RVS can be changed, but DLA goes out of his way to make it clear that he's not trying to tread on anyone's toes.

2 - Jed Cooper, who I consider to be town, calls DLA out on post 1. Instead of actually responding, DLA just blameshifts to Jed Cooper. Nice dodge there.

4 - DLA OMGUS votes Jed Cooper.

5 - DLA confirms that he's OMGUS voting Jed Cooper.

6 - DLA plays the n00b card saying he doesn't know what OMGUS is because he's only played real life mafia. This smells like total bull - even if you've only played real-life mafia, you know that retaliatory voting is dumb and not town. Moreover, you can easily look up the term in the wiki, so there's no reason he shouldn't have known what it meant. It's more likely that DLA just wanted to appear n00b so his silly play would be excused.

7 - DLA refuses to answer some questions, saying "3) I answer them if I want to answer them." Pretty cocky deflection there.

9 - DLA backpedals his aggressiveness, citing it was based on his real-life mafia playing. This makes no sense because online mafia isn't that different from real life mafia. It's more likely that DLA has simply realized that he isn't able to get away with the crap he usually does IRL...I.E, being super-dominant and getting a townie lynched early just because he wants it.

11 - How I would know? Because I'm assuming that the scum would be active in the thread... Fair reason? I'm still holding my vote.

More n00b card, plus WIFOM, PLUS refusal to commit to anything/fencesitting. I didn't know you could FIT so many scumtells in one line of text.

13 - "I agree. Moose, stop complaining and get yourself an avatar!"

Moose buddies up with MME, the friendly IC.

14 - "FoS: moose He seems to believe that he has authority, is this a scum move?" I like how DLA phrases his accusation in the form of a question instead of actually making a statement. He's always afraid to commit to anything that could give him problems in the future.

16 - DLA plays the n00b card again. He votes moose, then asks if anyone has a hammer. For someone who was previously so tentative, he seems pretty quick to lynch now, especially so early in the day.

19-25 - DLA makes a bunch of pointless, one-line statements. It's almost as if he's trying to make sure you see his cool avatar on every page so you can't accuse him of silence. At the same time, though, he's not actually SAYING anything. This is a huge scumtell in my opinion - scum want to hide in the background when things are going their way, but they clearly don't want to make that obvious. DLA's posts seem to fit perfectly into that category of here-but-not-here.

26-29 - DLA starts really pushing the moose issue while continuing to really say pretty much nothing relevant.

30-41 - Go view DLA's posts in isolation. There are ELEVEN posts straight of just one-line random sentences. Plus scum points.

42 - DLA unvotes moose and votes CSL. CSL turns out to be town. More scum points.

45 - DLA FoS's Eek, who turns out to be town.

46 - DLA switches to SpongeBob based on a boatload of crappy WIOFM logic. SpongeBob turns out to be town. This is like the third time DLA has changed his vote, and it's been for a townie REPEATEDLY. This is a red-siren scum tell in my opinion.

49 - Asks for a votecount. This is at least the fourth time he's asked for a votecount. Now, I agree that they are relevant and important to the game, but why does DLA need them so bad? It seems like he's trying to time precisely when and who's wagon he jumps on.

50-54 - more pointless one-liners.

62 - DLA suspects moose, me, and mae without any reasons, then asks me and Mae for our top suspects. Asking questions is cool and all, but DLA is back to his old routine of just hanging in the background and waiting for everyone else to make a power move.

*******

In conclusion, DLA has pulled nearly every scumtell in the book. He hangs back and fencesits at every possible opportunity while still trying hard to make himself appear active. He's voted for townies repeatedly. He drops the newb card frequently and backpedals whenever a situation becomes heated. And so on and so forth. I am not yet casting my vote, but I fairly certain of it. I look forward to your responses.

Thanks,

AlmasterGM

[DarkLightA]

May I ask everyone to take into consideration that the above post may just as well be posted by a scum, trying to put blame on me?

[AlmasterGM]

May I ask everyone to take into consideration that the above post may just as well be posted by a scum, trying to put blame on me?

Why don't you respond instead of just saying "AGM is scum."

[AfroLaX]

His argumentation is sound. He also has a point when he says you should refute his claims that you feel are unjustified and construct a case against him, instead of just going 'he could be scum'.

UnFoS: AlmasterGM

HoS: Moose & Dark

[DarkLightA]

SCUM

DarkLightA
moose200x

Maemuki

AfroLaX
AlmasterGM

TOWN

See how you two group together nicely?

[moose200x]

SCUM

DarkLightA
moose200x

Maemuki

AfroLaX
AlmasterGM

TOWN

See how you two group together nicely?

Darklight - Nice read.

[Maemuki]

See how both of you group together nicely on the scum part?

[AlmasterGM]

See how you two group together nicely?

Darklight - Nice read.

My god, could you make your buddying more obvious? Your "read" applies just as much, if not MORE, to you two than it does to Afro and myself. I have a reason for not suspecting Afro. His posts contain substantial amounts of content and he gives other townie vibes (which I can go through if you want but I doubt you even care). The fact that he agrees with a very basic claim I just made means absolutely nothing. You two, on the other hand, are constantly playing and voting anti-town and have yet to even RESPOND TO ANY OF MY CLAIMS. If you're so convinced I'm scum and you're town, then why don't you back it up with some evidence? Instead, you're clearly just lurking around waiting for Mae or Afro to crack and vote for me so you two can pile on and end the game. I'm giving you 24 hours to make 1) a full rebuttal and 2) to post a significantly warranted case against someone in this game. If you don't do both of these things, I'm casting my vote.

[AfroLaX]

lol, ok. So now we're getting somewhere.

Game On:

It seems as though at this stage I'm addressing Maemuki only, because the other two have their minds set on Almaster & myself being scum.

Mae, once again you're going to be on the spot here because whoever you think is the scummiest is probably going to be voted out. If you choose me or almaster, moose will definitely & darklight will almost definitely wagon with you. If you choose one of them, I will definitely & almaster will almost definitely wagon with you.

I personally believe that Moose is scum & that DarkLight is most likely to be scum. Therefore I would be happiest priority-voting Moose. Almaster is in agreement with me, but I assume he wants it to be vice versa - I'm sure that we can decide who to vote for though.

I can't speak for the other side, all I know is that they think both Almaster & I are scum.

To refute their case:

1) I've only ever demonstrated a pro-town orientation
2) I've only ever used proper reasoning, I haven't tried to trick anyone nor have I said anything stupid [Note: They might bring up some of my JOKES, but it's fairly obvious that they are jokes, please don't take them to be serious - they were claimed to be jokes each time I made one]
3) I haven't actually said or done anything particularly suspicious to be honest.
4) Almaster's few posts that he has made all make sense and all seem to demonstrate a pro-town attitude. His logic is completely sound in his PBPA of DarkLight.
5) The only thing they really have against us is that Almaster lurked for a while. This made me suspicious of him too, until he displayed an obviously pro-town attitude with good reasoning.

To attack them:

1) They've appealed to emotion whenever the pressure is on them.
2) They've used horrific logic in many posts to try convince people.
3) They dodge/avoid a lot of our questions.
4) Dark cries noob and starts lurking whenever the heat is on him.
5) They are claiming that the fact that Almaster thinks I'm more likely to be innocent than you is a 'nice read cuz they scumbuddies'. The reason that is retarded is because you were lurking and I was helping the town. Therefore, obviously you will come up as more suspicious than me after his two initial targets. It's a WIFOM at best. If anything, I think that if Almaster & I were scum he would have listed me in the middle to avoid such a stupid accusation.

Side Notes:

I did not randomly HoS DarkLight. At first I thought it was moose + someone else, but I couldn't tell who. Almaster's argument is what convinced me [combined with my own re-read of his posts in isolation].

Please compare our well-thought out and reasoned posts to their AtE, CrapLogic, evading questions, generally retarded other stuff, etc.

Town have no reason to use bad logic...

Mae, if you are convinced by what I've said here, then you, myself & Almaster need to come to some sort of an agreement on who to vote for. If you aren't, I'll gladly answer any questions you have [unlike moose + DL], but I'm fairly confident that this should be sufficient evidence?

I would not normally come to this sort of aggressive conclusion, but in case you hadn't noticed - both Dark & Moose are pushing for a lynch on either me or Almaster and since I know I'm innocent & I'm fairly sure he is too, I can't really allow that to happen...

It's highly unlikely that you, Mae, are scum at this stage because there is too much buddying going on amongst the rest of us. That necessarily leads me to believe that DarkLight MUST be the other scum, so I'm actually fine with voting for either one. The only difference is that my form of buddying to Almaster is simply based upon mounds of solid reasoning - not just one little technical 'im-looking-for-anything' quote and some other crappy arguments.