/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[SerialClergyman]

M'okay.
So close but so far from consensus.

Yos: Anyway, B&B voted me for X, I proved X wrong. He still hasn't answered the points I raised against him. He's probably scum.
B&B: THAT'S A LIE! I DIDN'T VOTE YOU FOR X!

Should read:

Yos: Anyway, B&B

is voting

me for X, I proved X wrong. He still hasn't answered the points I raised against him. He's probably scum.
B&B: THAT'S A LIE!

I JUST TOLD YOU about Y and Z which I specifically said I was voting you for.

[/quote]

Now, how could you have been expected to know that he was voting you for all those reasons? Becuase you asked... and he answered..

Also, you seem to be voting me...because you don't understand why I just said that you wouldn't say that if you were scum with Xyl, or something?

I'm voting you because your meta is off, your posts have a sort of unaffected tone that I've encountered when reading your scum games as opposed to the active scumhunter fearsome Yos I've seen.

Also, I think your attack of me is basically opportunistic and if there wasn't a wagon on me you wouldn't be voting me.

And then you quoted that answer.

I can't make it much clearer than that.

Your attack against me was scummy. It's scummy as hell to be in favor of a bandwagon on day 1, then on day 2 to attack me for that same bandwagon. And your constant misrepresentation were scummy as well.

Are you suggesting I'm attacking you 'because of the bandwagon'? This sort of comment is just so much hot air. Attacking people you think are scummy isn't scummy, I'm not simplyu attacking you because you were on a bandwagon (that I approved of) and the misrepresentations are in your head. I'm just going by the thread, and I think as quoted above my position is clear.

Since you didn't mention the kmd was speaking generally or specifically point, can I take it you've conceeded that he was speaking specifically? Or are we just agreeing to disagree? Either way, is my read of kmd still scummy?

Your response to the lurking question is interesting. I would have said that my lurking this game was indeed scummy because it's very unlike my meta (see my sig). I don't think I've seen many people who view it as an outright scumtell - most I find seem to view it as a nulltell that is anti town. Will be metaing to check your stance.

Esepcally since, whenever I prove you wrong, you then invent some other BS reason to attack me. Like this:

Quote:

5) Nope, not rolefishing, stating the obvious.

Sorry? That wasn't attacking you at all.. Perhaps I didn't explain very well - I was saying that rofl accusing me of chainsawing for kmd is poor logic until he's sure that I or kmd are scum. Otherwise, you could argue that if Y is attacking Z, X is chainsaw defending Z if he attacks Y. And then fill in essentially any player names for the letters. I then went on that this particular defence is supposed to be SUBTLE, ie - if I were scum, I wouldn't want people to KNOW I was scum with KMD. So rather than declare he's town, I would just attack you and your credibility, so your attacks against kmd are naturally dismissed. However I'm making no secret of my gut read of KMD, so the chainsaw charge is pretty useless.

What was particularly funny about the situation was that he was saying I was scummy for attacking you - which, of course, would be a chainsaw defence of you if you were scum. So my point wasn't attacking you or rofl, it was saying his attack on me wasn't valid, and so obviously demonstrated by his own very sentence.

Fair enough about the FoS - it just looked redundant and overly dramatic, but I'm just not an FoS kinda guy.

[ekiM]

Jokes like "my cat made me do it"? Or?

Jokes that have a possibility of being interpreted seriously. I won't take someone's word that they "only meant it as a joke".

I don't see how it could be interpreted seriously. It's obvious that 1 scum out of 5 isn't better than average, and I didn't vote for any of them. I don't see the hypothetical train of thought where someone makes that post intending the first paragraph to be seen as serious scumhunting. Repeating "I'M SKEPTICAL OF JOKES!!!" doesn't explain how you impute scummy motives to that post.

First quote you say my idea is silly (my idea that Xyl and BaB can't be scum together). This is similar to how BaB felt about my idea.

Second quote you say that BaB's dislike of my statement is a scumtell. Which seems strange since you had already agreed with BaB and called my idea silly.

I would expect that if you thought my idea was silly, you wouldn't see BaB's disagreement with me as a scum tell. You would see BaB's disagreement with me as prefectly natural, since it is similar to how you think.

See, first you said my idea was silly, and then when BaB disagreed with my idea you used it as a reason to vote him. It seems like a contradiction.

I first said your idea was silly, then when I was asked if it's a scumtell to disagree with an idea that only damages you as scum I said yes. That's because it is. It's irrelevant what the idea is.

ekiM -- Who do you think is scum? I have no idea who you are suspicious of.

Patience.

Everyone who can't see how ekiM's "one of these five is scum" post is obviously not serious, does it help if I point out that in that same post, he says he is "deeply concerned" about these five players lurking

less than 24 hours into the game

?

. . .

I don't think it's contradictory for ekiM to disagree with the reasons for finding Xyl and BaB to be unlikely scum together, but still find it scummy for BaB to attack the idea that he is not scum with Xyl.

Awesome, another sane person. Am I meant to warn you off buddying up to me now?

Do you think my defence of ekiM was invalid?

No, your point was valid, but I'm not sure that is the whole reason people are suspicious of him. As I pointed out, I am not suspicious of him for the point you defended against. So, basically, I find it strange for you to defend him on the much lesser charge, while ignoring any of the other points against him. It sort of suggests that you think he's not scum because of that one argument, while from my POV, the issue is much bigger than just the point you defended against. Reminds me of this: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... om_Fallacy

What do you think of my argument against ekiM? Post 543 is most of it I think.

He already addressed it in post 553 which you quoted from. See above.

It is easy. "Stalling" means waiting for a lynch just because deadline has not run out yet. What I do to scum hunt is jsut slowing down the wagon. Those are two strictly different things.a

OK.

Scum are SerialClergyman and ekiM. ekiM makes terrible points now to compensate for his lack of making points yesterday.

Do you think making "terrible points" is scummy? Why?

So, been meaning to answer Mike for a while.

His catch up post (iso 11) feels somehow overly confidently anti-bridges to me

Shrug, I was pretty sure B&B was scum and not lynching him post-claim would've been a big mistake. So I did my catchup from that perspective.

Feels like slinging whatever sticks from other people's arguments, which is accentuated by the fact that I feel like I did catch him with a contradiction in thought process earlier.

There's no contradiction.

Mike, you asked for clarification from me, I think elvis already pretty much gave it.

I also don't know what your problem with what I said it. I thought Elvis was overblowing what she was saying. I agreed that it was reasonable to question the motivation for B&B devoting so much effort to attacking a line of thought that only harmed him if he was scum. And?

Nope, nope. BaB wasn't somehow devoting himself to a huge effort to attack that line. He was getting attacked for why he mentioned it in the first place, and then he was defending and explaining his thoughts.

Considering your similar minded early spontaneous comment ("Elvis saying scum wouldn't start RVS bandwagons on one another is a bit silly. Describing it as "pushing for their buddies lynch" is sillier.") it's just hard for me to see this suspicion as sincere from you.

Same thing is highlighted also here:

Page 10

B&B 235, 237, 245 are just.... awful. Pretty sure he's scum. Worst thing: trying to discredit the Xyl+B&B not scum together line. What is the townie motivation?

Sigh. A scum tell is an action that a scum player is more likely to take than a town player in the same situation.

You asked me if [trying to undermine a line of thought that only damages you if you are scum] is a scumtell. A scum player is much more motivated to do so than a town player, so it is a scum tell.

It's irrelevant what I thought of the original line of thought.

ekiM, was there a specific reason for you to not post reasoning on why you originally voted Bridges?

I posted the reasons for my vote at the top of 463. I didn't post them when I made the vote because I wanted to know what B&B would defend against if voted without a reason; what he considered scummy about his own actions. Then I went V/LA.

When he's out of V/LA, the answering of the same questions to different people 50 times seems unnecessary, don't understand the motivation.

People don't like having questions ignored so I searched for my name and answered everything, just to be sure.

What's the motivation for this complaint?

I'm not fully caught up and need to answer Yos and inspect several people, but don't have the time right now.

You have my sympathy.

[ekiM]

Xyl - if you had to confirm a couple of players as town, who would you choose?

What's the motivation for this question?

I had a pro-town read on iamusername before his voting. Going to overthink this, as it was weird (see above).

So you no longer think he's pro-town because he voted you?

[ekiM]

Vote: KMD

KMD, did you think there was any chance of the BAB wagon derailing yesterday? If not, why did you unvote?

People who tried to start a wagon on me, XYL, VP_Baltar, did you think there was any way anyone other tha BAB was getting lynched, after that claim?

[ekiM]

SerialClergyman - Yos said BAB

voted

for X. That is, the reason he gave when he voted was X. He later gave other reasons. I don't see how Yos is fibbing here.

[SerialClergyman]

Do you see something disengenuous in only putting forward one part of the reasons someone is voting you irregardless of whether it was the inital reason or not?

[Kmd4390]

That was the only reason KMD gave at the time, and that was the reason he defended for the rest of day 1 (with fairly absurd and easily disprovable statements he kept repeating, like "scum never claim vanilla" and such.)

Um. Wow. Just wow. My argument was "scum never claim vanilla"? Really?!? Could have sworn I used specifics from the setup of this game like the fact that several of the same power role may exist, so a counterclaim wouldn't mean one is scum, and scum would have been dumb to claim vanilla when facing a Day 1 lynch. The only exception is if someone bussed so hard that the lynch had to happen for that person to gain town points. This is why Bridge was so obvtown after he claimed vanilla.

What kmd did is direct continuation from what he did yesterday.

You keep saying that, and so does he, but I'm not getting how that's supposed to be a valid defense for him, or how that makes him more town.

Well how is it scummy? I think it's null. More of a playstyle tell than anything.

And I didn't say they can't. I just don't see Bridge doing it. He'd be more likely to claim a power role as scum instead of laying down and taking a lynch. That's unless he's being bussed hard, and is ok with being lynched, but I still think he'd fight it and try to get a mislynch for today.

4) Any reason why you felt that BAB would OMGUS you specifically out of the entire rest of the wagon?

What gives you the impression that I felt he'd OMGUS me?

kmd 553 includes meh answers to yos, bs slip debate and an unvote for elvis. What was the point of voting her then?

I don't OMGUS as scum. I tell people they are town for pursuing a case they believe. And my reason for suspecting you is more the gut feeling that you aren't playing to your meta.

Kmd, what games are you using as meta information?

Thought she was scum then changed my mind.

Not using any specific games. You can check my scum games if you'd like though.

Vote: KMD

KMD, did you think there was any chance of the BAB wagon derailing yesterday? If not, why did you unvote?

I unvoted because I was pretty sure he was town.

----------------

Sorry for the rushed post. Taking what time I can get.

[elvis_knits]

ekiM -- Who do you think is scum? I have no idea who you are suspicious of.

Patience.

NO. This is horrible and lazy. You can't even tell me anyone you are suspicious of? Seriously??

You are just lucky that serialclergyman is so scummy...

1) Since you find OMGUS such a worrying sign, it's worth mentioning I've skyrocketed to 2nd on your scumlist directly after posting a case against you, when previous to that I don't think you mentioned me once. Of the three reasons you give,
a) You never mention my lurking all through yesterday or early today or when other people were mentioning it,
b) Never mention my behaviour yesterday (by which I assume you mean my lurking) all through yesterday or early today or when other people were mentioning it and
c) My attack on you - well, hello OMGUS.

First of all, I don't see why it should matter whether or not he mentioned your lurking previously. It's not like you can say you didn't lurk. You did, and you admit it. So it is still a point against you.

And as for the OMGUS part of it, I seem to remember you giving us a definition of OMGUS previously, in which you say that something is NOT OMGUS if the person has sufficient other reasons:

So you put it out there that his attack on you is OMGUS, which is a relatively poor suggestion. He has actually given you plenty of reasons - none of which were based on your vote for him.

And since it is clear Yos is voting you because he feels you are misrepping him and lying about him, I would say that by your own definition, he is not OMGUSing you.

unvote; vote serialclergyman

[SerialClergyman]

^^ Eeek, badlogic.

1) It matters whether he mentions my lurking previously because we are trying to determine whether his suspicion of me is born of my case against him. As it was, Yos2 went from not mentioning SC ---- not mentioning SC --- SC makes case agaisnt Yos2 --- Yos2 declares SC 2nd most scummy in game. This suggests to me that my case certainly had something to do with it.

2)

And since it is clear Yos is voting you because he feels you are misrepping him and lying about him, I would say that by your own definition, he is not OMGUSing you.

Well, I would argue both of those points are born from my case on him. It may well be that it's a legitimate concern, but it looks to me like he didn't like that I attacked him, felt threatened and either a) hit back as scum or b) assumed scumminess on the part of his attacker as town.

However, happily we don't have to debate too much over whether there was OMGUS involved - I generally view OMGUS as essentially a null-tell and was more focusing on the hypocrasy of someone who is quick to accuse others of OMGUS while displaying certainly some of those characteristics himself. (Hypocrasy can be a scumtell.)

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone? Or are you content to let your shackled aggression against ekiM remain chained and frothing at the mouth because you feel Yos2 isn't OMGUSing me?

By using my definition and framing your point in my terms, would you be conceeding that my original point that BAB had plenty of reasons to vote Yos2 besides OMGUS and that Yos2's charge of OMGUS was possily unfair was true?

[mith]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

SerialClergyman: 3 (elvis_knits, roflcopter, zu_Faul)
Kmd4390: 2 (ekiM, Yosarian2)
charter: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)
ekiM: 1 (Ojanen)
iamausername: 1 (VP Baltar)
Yosarian2: 1 (SerialClergyman)
zu_Faul: 1 (iamausername)

Not Voting: 5 (charter, Kmd4390, populartajo, Thesp, Xylthixlm)

[zu_Faul]

I had a pro-town read on iamusername before his voting. Going to overthink this, as it was weird (see above).

So you no longer think he's pro-town because he voted you?

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

Posts like what you just did are what I meant with "terrible posts". You jump at shadows (like just now, you accuse me of OMGUS, when I explain the reason for my "suspicion" in the same post) (and don't you dare say that there was not an implicit accusation in your question)(and you already did it yesterday), and, like e_k just said, you try to not have an opinion.

[ekiM]

That was the only reason KMD gave at the time, and that was the reason he defended for the rest of day 1 (with fairly absurd and easily disprovable statements he kept repeating, like "scum never claim vanilla" and such.)

Um. Wow. Just wow. My argument was "scum never claim vanilla"? Really?!? Could have sworn I used specifics from the setup of this game like the fact that several of the same power role may exist, so a counterclaim wouldn't mean one is scum, and scum would have been dumb to claim vanilla when facing a Day 1 lynch. The only exception is if someone bussed so hard that the lynch had to happen for that person to gain town points. This is why Bridge was so obvtown after he claimed vanilla.

Vote: KMD

KMD, did you think there was any chance of the BAB wagon derailing yesterday? If not, why did you unvote?

I unvoted because I was pretty sure he was town.

You switched your vote to him and he soon after claimed vanilla. You unvoted. What claim would

not

have caused you to unvote?

Did you think there was any chance of the BAB wagon derailing?

If you were sure he was town, shouldn't you have been arguing pretty hard for people to also unvote him? I count two relevant posts after you unvoted.

[elvis_knits]

^^ Eeek, badlogic.

Eeek, dramatic.

1) It matters whether he mentions my lurking previously because we are trying to determine whether his suspicion of me is born of my case against him. As it was, Yos2 went from not mentioning SC ---- not mentioning SC --- SC makes case agaisnt Yos2 --- Yos2 declares SC 2nd most scummy in game. This suggests to me that my case certainly had something to do with it.

But the fact is that you did lurk yesterday and so his point is valid. Whether he would have mentioned if you hadn't attacked him -- I really can't know. It's WIFOM.

All I know is that you did lurk, and you can't deny it, so you're trying to strike back by saying Yos is OMGUS you. I'm not willing to discount your lurking, which is a fact, because Yos may or may not be OMGUSing you.

2)

And since it is clear Yos is voting you because he feels you are misrepping him and lying about him, I would say that by your own definition, he is not OMGUSing you.

Well, I would argue both of those points are born from my case on him. It may well be that it's a legitimate concern, but it looks to me like he didn't like that I attacked him, felt threatened and either a) hit back as scum or b) assumed scumminess on the part of his attacker as town.

And why do you think that he "feels threatened" or that he "hit back as scum" or "assumed scumminess on the part of his attacker." I mean, what did he do that makes you think this specifically, because it just looks like you're jumping to conclusions.

However, happily we don't have to debate too much over whether there was OMGUS involved - I generally view OMGUS as essentially a null-tell and was more focusing on the hypocrasy of someone who is quick to accuse others of OMGUS while displaying certainly some of those characteristics himself. (Hypocrasy can be a scumtell.)

If OMGUS is a null tell to you, why are you accusing Yos of it? Isn't that hypocritical of

you

?

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone? Or are you content to let your shackled aggression against ekiM remain chained and frothing at the mouth because you feel Yos2 isn't OMGUSing me?

I never shackle my aggression! LIES! (that part was sarcasm, btw)

I don't know why you thought my ellipsis was "ominous"...

I just meant it as a way to lead into the contradictions I saw in your arguments. As for the rest of my reasons, I'm not hiding anything. I already said that I felt your catch-up post was underwhelming and I thought your case on Yos was thin and I wanted you to comment on more people. You haven't commented on other people yet and I dislike your arguments against Yos. Also, you need a bandwagon very badly. I am here to help.

By using my definition and framing your point in my terms, would you be conceeding that my original point that BAB had plenty of reasons to vote Yos2 besides OMGUS and that Yos2's charge of OMGUS was possily unfair was true?

No.

[ekiM]

Do you see something disengenuous in only putting forward one part of the reasons someone is voting you irregardless of whether it was the inital reason or not?

I looked back at Yos' post again and it was actually a "TL;DR" summary for Xyl. Here it is:

"TL;DR. B&B voted me because I think you're not his scumbuddy, which, again, probably means he's scum and you're town. He also generally continued to act like a scum trapped in a corner while not actually responding to any of the points made against him."

This is Yos' interpretation. He wasn't claiming to be objective, so he was not lacking in candor. I can see why BAB felt Yos was being unfair, but I don't think Yos was being dishonest. His view was that BAB primarily or only voted for reason X. It was also his view that BAB was acting like trapped scum. He said what his views were. Shrug.

Use 'regardless', not 'irregardless'.

---

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

First accusing me. Then voting me, without me making a post in the mean time? Why not vote me in the first post? It seems like you only waited for some reassurance (which you got). Seems like a scum move to me.

So he was too afraid to vote you until one other person, who is under heavy suspicion, also voiced some suspicion of you? That's your theory?

---

ekiM -- Who do you think is scum? I have no idea who you are suspicious of.

Patience.

NO. This is horrible and lazy. You can't even tell me anyone you are suspicious of? Seriously??

You are just lucky that serialclergyman is so scummy...

Posts like what you just did are what I meant with "terrible posts". You jump at shadows (like just now, you accuse me of OMGUS, when I explain the reason for my "suspicion" in the same post) (and don't you dare say that there was not an implicit accusation in your question)(and you already did it yesterday), and, like e_k just said, you try to not have an opinion.

[ekiM]

I wonder why nobody is bothered that they don't know what PookyTheMagicalBear's suspicions are?

[zu_Faul]

Well, I would argue both of those points are born from my case on him.

That does not matter at all. You are attacked for things you did that were scummy. Is Yos2 not allowed to attack you for those scummy things just because it was aimed at him? I don't think so.

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone?

It's dangerous to go alone.
Take this:



(for the humor-impaired, I am accusing him of fishing)


Also, I reread the BAB-Yos situation. What SerialClergyman says at the top of this page is just untrue. It is not that BAB "just told" Yos about his reasons. It is:
BAB: Yos is scum for X.
Yos: X is false. BAB still has not answered my points. And is scum.
BAB: Nonono, wait I voted you for Y and Z!

BAB did not reply to the points Yos2 made against him.

I mean, in the end Yos2 was wrong, but so were several other players. I don't see how he is scummy because of that. SerialClergyman is misrepresenting what Yos2 said hard.
People, don't play from your memory, read the stuff. And vote SerialClergyman please

[elvis_knits]

I wonder why nobody is bothered that they don't know what PookyTheMagicalBear's suspicions are?

I wonder why you accused people of not accusing Pooky rather than just accusing pooky yourself.

[zu_Faul]

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

First accusing me. Then voting me, without me making a post in the mean time? Why not vote me in the first post? It seems like you only waited for some reassurance (which you got). Seems like a scum move to me.

So he was too afraid to vote you until one other person, who is under heavy suspicion, also voiced some suspicion of you? That's your theory?

I reread. Apparently, his vote was just a pressure vote. I seem to have confused his post with SerialClergyman's or something. I am sorry.
Pro-town read on iamusername restored, obv.

I don't get what you want to say with the picture.

[SerialClergyman]

I like your reaction but I don't like your reasoning. I put in a few arrogant barbs in that post and you were barely riled.

I don't think I've ever shirked away from my lurking, I acknowledge it completely. I've given my reasons, you're welcome to accept them or not. I can also post a photo of my beautiful girlfriend in my brand new apartment if that'll help, but essentially the point is you all have to determine whether it's indicative of me being scum or not - I'm not denying it at all.

Either way, it doesn't look amazing to me. Mention nothing, then case against him, then you lurked. Well duh ><. Why are you only bringing it up now? Something to do with the case I just posted against you, perhaps? etc etc.

I suspect that he hit back against me because I made a case against him. Do you honestly feel that if I made a case against someone else, or if I continued lurking, he would attack me as hard as he has? Again - I'm not saying this is necessarily a scumtell, I can see town or scum doing it, but it's worth nothing.

If OMGUS is a null tell to you, why are you accusing Yos of it? Isn't that hypocritical of you?

All arrogant barbs aside, this is actually terrible logic. I'm accusing Yos of hypocrasy. To do that, I first have to establish that he accused BAB of OMGUS (obvious) and then have to establish that he OMGUSes himself (hopefully done). The hypocrasy is the key point, not the OMGUSing.

YOU PUT IN A SECOND OMINOUS ELLIPSIS WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST ONE! Love it.

Well, I can't help your being underwhelmed by my initial post. I'm not going to comment on people I don't have reads on out of the blue. I also generally dislike posts that ask people to focus on 'more people' as opposed to some specific person or persons that deserve comment - it feels like you don't want me talking aobut the person I'm talking about. Was there someone specific you wanted my thoughts on?

No.

Ah. Would you mind then reviewing the argument and letting me know your decision?

[elvis_knits]

Regardless - as I'm 'so scummy' with an ominous ellipsis, would you mind sharing the rest of your reasons with everyone?

It's dangerous to go alone.
Take this:



(for the humor-impaired, I am accusing him of fishing)

Iam did the same thing to me before:

elvis, do you have any reasons for voting me that you haven't stated in the thread?

I almost joked with username that my other reason not stated in thread was my guilty investigation on him.

I think both statements are slight fishing, but possibly just wanting me to give more reasons. I'm not sure it's conclusive, but the fact you brought it up was interesting to me because I had a similar reaction. FWIW.

[SerialClergyman]

Hilarious picture ruined by laborious explanation aside, where's the fishing in that point?

I was making the point that even if I accepted all of what Elvis knits so graciously wrote, it seemed her point was that Yos2 wasn't OMGUSing me, which I thought was an odd solitary reason for a vote.

Since then she's elaborated that I haven't commented on enough people (iamusername has a freaky avatar, ekiM's smallest violin image has already been downloaded to my desktop for use to send to annoying friends, I am actually quite touched that Ojanen said she enjoyed playing with me - that's three more commented on RIGHT THERE) and I lurked (orly?) and she didn't get all angry uppity about my semi-nasty little comments so I am much happier with thinking her suspicion townly.

But all that aside, what part of the question suggested to you that I was fishing?

[elvis_knits]

But all that aside, what part of the question suggested to you that I was fishing?

All parts.

Thinking my ellipses was "ominous." Ominous is a really strong word, and implies that I am hiding something major... like maybe an investigation?

Atleast that was my thinking. And with username it was him asking if I had reasons "not stated in thread." The phrase just stuck out to me. Although I can see a person saying it like that completely innocently, it also could be asking if I have outside info. Also, I feel like I post maybe too much and comment on lots of things, so when people ask me what I'm holding back, it makes me wonder what they could possibly be looking for. I mean, I sort of wear my heart on my sleeve, so the only thing I could possibly not have stated would be an investigation.

I don't think it's a conculsive point though. It's possible, but not necessarily fishing. It was my gut reaction, but not something I would use as a major point to condemn you.

[ekiM]

alexhans/PookyTheMagicalBear

- Has done nothing whatsoever so far this game. Whoops.

charter

- I liked his action yesterday. I think his questions were good and he seemed to be trying to genuinely figure things out. He was very focussed on BAB, hmm. He attacked zu_Faul for defending BAB, which seems more likely from someone unaware of BAB's alignment.

ekiM

- I dunno about this guy, he attached a non-serious comment to a RVS-ending BW vote. Why would anyone but scum do that? He also thinks scumtells should mostly be about motivations. What's the motivation for thinking that?

He also seems to be really behind on this game. Yesterday he seemed pretty sure BAB was scum, so why can't he instantly re-adjust and re-evaluate a 25 page game within a couple of days of the thread re-opening for day 2? Shouldn't take more than twenty minutes of thinking, right? It's not like anyone else has been less than hyperactive today.

If he doesn't explain his thoughts on other players soon, I might have to vote for him.

elvis_knits

- Headstrong town, probably.

iamausername

- This guy is definitely talking a lot of sense.

Kmd4390

- Yeah, I don't like that unvote yesterday. If you unvote for vanilla, does that mean you lynch investigative roles? I don't get it.

If you're sure someone is townie, you should be working your ass off to derail their wagon. He... didn't. Of course if he's scum and unvoted then he's off the wagon when a townie was lynched.

Ojanen

- I'm nonplussed by her attacks on me, but she feels like she's trying.

populartajo

- Hasn't actually said much this game. Doing his old "I'll do it tomorrow" routine. I don't really know what he thinks, most of his substantive posts have been catchups.

roflcopter

- town?

SerialClergyman

- I can live with his lurking yesterday. I don't really like the wallposts, I didn't get too much out of them. Too early to call, but he's not hitting my badzones.

Thesp

- Kind of sitting in the background most of yesterday I feel, but always making good posts. What does he think right now?

VP Baltar

- His fixation with me yesterday while I was V/LA seemed like a major cop-out. He didn't comment much on BAB wagon until right at the end.

Xylthixlm

- zwet alt? I don't like the huge number of one liners that don't really say anything. Got off the BAB wagon but didn't try and derail it. What does that achieve?

Yosarian2

- Dunno yet, but these wall post arguments mostly seem quite pointless.

zu_Faul

- Painfully enough, I think this guy is a townie. Scum usually make better arguments.

Suspect

KMD
VP Baltar
Xyl

Need to participate more

Pooky
Tajo
Thesp

[ekiM]

I wonder why nobody is bothered that they don't know what PookyTheMagicalBear's suspicions are?

I wonder why you accused people of not accusing Pooky rather than just accusing pooky yourself.

I'm not accusing him. I'm wondering why some people (you, Ojanen, Vp Baltar, Zu, ...) have major rabies over not knowing whom I suspect, and yet no interest whatsoever in several other players in the same situation.

[ekiM]

I said "(see above)". If you had read above that, you would have seen what I found strange about the way he voted. It was that he said he'd like to vote me, someone else also found me scummy, and THEN he voted me, without me making a post in the meantime. So what changed his opinion?

First accusing me. Then voting me, without me making a post in the mean time? Why not vote me in the first post? It seems like you only waited for some reassurance (which you got). Seems like a scum move to me.

So he was too afraid to vote you until one other person, who is under heavy suspicion, also voiced some suspicion of you? That's your theory?

I reread. Apparently, his vote was just a pressure vote. I seem to have confused his post with SerialClergyman's or something. I am sorry.
Pro-town read on iamusername restored, obv.

OK, then! Glad we straightened that out.

I don't get what you want to say with the picture.

It's a tiny violin. Possibly the smallest in the world.