Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[Paradoxombie]

I just was starting to get worried. I guess it may have been unwarranted though.

[hiphop]

i am town aligned.

Don this is stupid. How could everybody fall for this? If Jason is scum each day all he has to say is yes this person is town-aligned. Mix a couple of scum in there and nobody knows which way is up and which way is down. No, I will not say what I am aligned to. I prefer Jason find some other information to ask about me if he is town-aligned. Something that I might just say he is lying to. What an easy scum claim. And you guys fell for it? ha. You guys made it easy on him.

The worst part is that no scum( even an Sk) will come out and say Jason is lying that he really isn't town aligned, because otherwise they would be lynching themselves.

Yes I believed we should of lynched Jason.

This deserves a

FOS Don

for starting this nonsense and for threatening everybody if they didn't follow you.

[Paradoxombie]

i am town aligned.

Don this is stupid. How could everybody fall for this? If Jason is scum each day all he has to say is yes this person is town-aligned. Mix a couple of scum in there and nobody knows which way is up and which way is down. No, I will not say what I am aligned to. I prefer Jason find some other information to ask about me if he is town-aligned. Something that I might just say he is lying to. What an easy scum claim. And you guys fell for it? ha. You guys made it easy on him.

The worst part is that no scum( even an Sk) will come out and say Jason is lying that he really isn't town aligned, because otherwise they would be lynching themselves.

Yes I believed we should of lynched Jason.

This deserves a

FOS Don

for starting this nonsense and for threatening everybody if they didn't follow you.

That's basically what I said, but I think the suspicion should be directed at Jason, not Don. I don't think don's plan will work, but there are still other ways to find out someone's alignment.

If Jason does end up scum, then nail don for it. Until then don has enough points against him already.

[RedCoyote]

So I am scummy for confirming a vote after discussing hiphop's scumminess with paradox before a deadline was set?

Yes, based on my interpretation of the meaning of confirm vote.

Would you like me to do a scumlist like you do? I understand the concept of not being able to lynch two people. However, given the deadline scenario, either one was viable before Toro's softclaim.

That's not necessary. I guess I am more concerned with that indifference. "Either one is viable" should not exactly be the best thing to say as we approach a deadline. I like to see decisive townies that show why it is they prefer X over Y.

This response didn't help me, Ha. I guess I just am not grasping what you mean. Is this sarcastic?

Oh, no, it's not sarcastic! XD

When I say that, if you are town, I want you to get a grip on the game, I just mean that it seems like you are going through the motions. I'd like to see you a little more at the forefront.

---

wait a minute, if jason is scum how is his claim verifiable? Unless we lie as town, won't jason just tell any town players they are telling the truth like any good player would?

It's also a vague role. If I pm the mod with a password and say one in game that could be true or false, would the mod inform you that?

Also I don't like that jason only gave the role and did not suggest any tactics or uses for it. If you've known this all game, shouldn't you have more to say? He should've given us both the mechanics and the dynamics.

I'll tell you right now I am doubting that all three of them (don/Toro/jason) are power roles. We shall see as the game develops, but I have a feeling someone is lying through their teeth.

---

Oh RC beat me to the hammer. >>;;

Let's just both remember that is was a simulpost hammering XD

---

Don this is stupid. How could everybody fall for this? If Jason is scum each day all he has to say is yes this person is town-aligned.

Well, I don't think it's necessarily stupid. It's difficult to tell which claims are real/fake at this point, but Toro could just as easily be scum as jason could.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yes I believed we should of lynched Jason.

As I've already said, I don't believe jason's claim, but Day 1 isn't the time to be guessing which claims are real. If he does turn out to be a townie PR (and especially the one he claimed), there's still a pretty decent chance to find out. If not, he'll still be here Day 2.

@IK
If you see this before night starts, are you really a vanilla townie?

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #25:

Idiotking (7) -

don_johnson, Toro, jasonT1981, Zachrulez, Paradoxombie, DeathRowKitty, RedCoyote

toro (2)

-

icemanE, Idiotking

jasonT1981 (3)

-

hiphop, ryan2754, DTMaster

Not Voting (0)

-

With 12 alive it took 7 to lynch.

[alexhans]

There's people here. With you. Talking.

You understand some of it:
"How do we know if he is making any progress."
"Don't worry, something is going on over there. I just hope-"

But, your decay doesn't let you remain in that place. The real world?

Back to your cell where your own hell is thriving.

"It is necessary." - The walls of the cells echo.

"It is necessary." - The ceiling whispers.

The time is running out. 12 dark figures have been battling in endless discussions for more than... You don't really know for how long. You just know you're feeling weaker than before.

The personalities switch and twist, trusting each other is not an option. Paranoia becomes a good trait, Strong emotions are floating in the humid air of the cell and slowly the required state of mind is achieved for them to do something drastic.

Things are too confusing and someone has been talking too much. Too loud. Irrational conclusions are easyly made around here.

Dressed as a clown, one of them, realizes that the others are closing in around him. Their intentions are clear. A sad tear drops in his face but he doesn't resist while 6 of them, an excessive amount, grab his head, arms and legs and firmly place him in the floor.

The knife speaks to them:

"It is necessary"

A tall, skinny figure makes up his mind and grabs de knife from the body's head. But the knife isn't there anymore.

"YAURGHH- glub- glub "- Idiotking's throat has already been opened by another person.

They all wait. while Idiotking's lasts attempts to breath flood everywhere around him.

But the flooding doesn't stop.

Idiotking has been dead for a while, but the blood keeps flowing. The level rising.

First it reaches their knees.

Then it's soaks their waists.

Soon, they're all floating.

The ceiling is not very tall.

Something went terribly wrong.

Wait, this isn't real. Is it?

"I didn't want to come to this. But we MUST give him anesthesia. His condition just got worse."
"mmm... let's pray that the night proves more benevolent to him."
"I seriously doubt"

but the chemicals are fulfilling their task. Welcome to the void.

Idiotking, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 1

Night 1 has begun. It will end on Monday 31 at 9:00 AM (GMT-3). Send your actions before then.

I will give you a longer nigth than usual so the replacements have more time to catch up

[alexhans]

Chapter 2: The first steps to a solution.

"Knock, Knock."

You wake up

"Who is it?"
"Follow the white rabbit."
"What? I don't understand..."
"All the answer to your questions lie there."
"What questions?"
"If you don't want to know you will never know."

Ctrl-alt-del

Suddenly, you see a grey bunny dressed in a tux hopping along the room. He stands still for a second, sniffs the air, gives you a knowing look and jumps straight inside an enourmous black hole you had failed to notice before. You cautiously approach the spot, waiting to hear a thump. But it never comes.

You linger for some time near the edge of the hole. Silent.

You know it's true, but you hesitate. A voice keeps singing in your head:

"I have a problem,
I have a question,
I have an issue,
I have a quiz.

It's my predicament,
But I acknowledge it,
Ego is my problem,
I know it's real.

It's only one of them,
But I aknowledge it."

There's only one way to kill it. You convince yourself. You've been shown the way. It only takes courage.

You jump.

Towards Darkness & Sacrifice.

Pull through.

"Let's see how his doing." - Says the strong voice.
"Wow... would you look at him... It seems night has actually helped him" - the surprised voice of his partner exclaims.
"Let's try to make him respond."

They prod you gently for a minute. When you're ready, you muster the necessary strenght, open your eyes and tell them:

"Gentlemen. Do you mind? We're pretty busy back there."

And you go back to where you are needed.

2 nonplussed doctors stand frozen in an individual room of a psychiatric institution, located in a big city, part of a thriving world. Time has stopped for them. Ecclesiastes has got it all wrong. There's always something new under the sun.

DeathRowKitty, Mafia Goon, was eliminated N1

With 10 alive. It takes 6 to lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

\Bah post

Go scum!

[Idiotking]

\Bah post

Go town!

[alexhans]

\Bah post

Go Mod!

[don_johnson]

i like this beginning. this most likely signals the existence of a second faction, be it mafia number two or an sk. unless we have a successful vig shot? i am going to look back at drk because he was one i had not pegged as anywhere near scum. sufficed to say this is a good start no matter how we slice it.

[RedCoyote]

I love, love, love this flavor, Mod.

At first I thought it would be kind of cheesy, but I really dig it.

Anyways, I'm throwing the book out. I still stand by Paradox as firmly on my town side, but I need to take another look at this. DRK pressured jason pretty hard yesterday, for me, I don't know, it's really, really hard for me to write it off as some serious bussing. I think jason, at least in my mind, is necessarily given more town points.

I'm a little concerned with what happened to the kill. A number of things could have happened, as don already touched on. I think the most logical explanation is that DRK was in charge of submitting the night action for his team, and he was killed before it could take place? Would that work? That explains to me why only one kill went through.

Another possibility, a bodyguard type role?

DRK I remember showed hesitation toward pressure of Toro virtually all D1. I don't know if this means anything, maybe just a slight, slight scumtell on Toro.

Of course I am going to give a biased opinion in regards to DRK's interaction with me, but from my perspective I obviously do see it more as trying to buddy with a town role.

I don't recall DRK ever making any other strong positions on other players, but I will go back and see if I can find anything else.

[ryan2754]

i like this beginning. this most likely signals the existence of a second faction, be it mafia number two or an sk. unless we have a successful vig shot? i am going to look back at drk because he was one i had not pegged as anywhere near scum. sufficed to say this is a good start no matter how we slice it.

Personally, I highly doubt in a mini there is a second mafia faction, especially since there was only one NK, and outside of "Mafia Goon," there is no other designation to DRK's alignment, indicating only one mafia faction.

"Eliminated" doesn't really give us much with regards to flavor.

Suffice to say, as much as I don't like trying to outguess the mod, listing out the possibilities on what happened may be in order, as it can help us debate what happened last night.

1.) No lynch by mafia, vig/SK kill.
2.) RBed(Toro possible)/Doc protected mafia kill, vig/SK kill.
3.) 2 Mafia factions, with each a kill every other night (highly unlikely, Don, especially since there is no designation of DRK's alignment outside of Mafia Goon, which insists only one mafia).
4.) Other shenanigans I can't think about right now. Redirector of some sort? Isn't there a role that does that? Sorry, outside of normal roles, I do not know much. Possible bus driver? Isn't there a role where if a mafia targets a certain person, that mafioso dies?

Anyways, all this speculation is making my head hurt, and I personally think it is one of the first two options, as they seem most viable (Occam's razor).


BTW alex, nice flavor.


Anyways, I am going to go look back through DRK's posts. Granted, it's hard sifting through what DRK says, because since he was scum, he knew who was town and scum (knew alignments), and thus could adjust his opinion accordingly. Given this, however, I still find rooting back through his posts advantageous.

Vote: JasonT1981

Because I hate Jeff Gordon.

You don't like Jeff Gordon, so you put the

third

random vote on Jason?

Unvote, Vote: Zachrulez

Interesting. Don't know what to make of this, but I am including it to see what other people might think of it. Seems like trying to indirectly buddy jason (I've said this before).

I guess you've probably noticed this by now, but you won't have a problem with the amount of content in ryan's posts (unless you despise long posts).

As I said above, dank appears to be attempting to corner a newer player by twisting their rhetoric beyond its meaning.

...and you didn't think to give that reason with your vote?

I do see some sense in this, although as DTM just pointed out, you used that argument on the wrong person. If you combine this argument with the fact that hiphop was an easy target, I think this will be useful (later in the game if not now).

Attempt to buddy with me.

Don't know what to make of his last statement, but might provide useful.

Also your thoughts on hiphop because he also put someone at L-4 with his second vote in the RVS.

He had a real reason, as opposed to not liking someone's avatar (nice avatar btw DTM). Then again, as I look back I'm pretty sure hiphop was wrong in saying that Idiotking voted twice. For now, I'll just be happy with the explanation that he miscounted votes.

Casting aside hiphop's errors is what this seems like to me.

unvote, vote: hiphop

for the following reasons:
1) He unvoted when DTM brought up that he put Idiotking at L-4, even though he still thought he only cast the second vote.
2) He tried to (at least temporarily) divert our attention to the lurkers instead of following a valid line of questioning.
3) Posts 39-41. They pretty much speak for themselves.

Trying for honest scumhunting.

@deathrowkitty what do you think would of happened to me if I hadn't even posted yet? I wouldn't have any suspicious drawn on to me. Which is why I don't like lurkers. They think they can float under the radar.

True. I agree it's pretty bad not to have posted yet, but since you have posted and you're suspicious, of course you're going to be voted. (and from my last game, I know ryan tends not to post as often)

@everyone. FYI there are more than one scum in the game, so keep looking. At least I am staying active.

We shouldn't vote you because you have less active scumbuddies we could be voting instead? That's how that sentence reads to me.

Hmmm...

Unvote: hiphop

I'm starting to get the feeling he's not a good lynch for today, especially three pages in. I'm getting more newb tells from him than I am scum tells and I'm pretty sure there's nothing more he can do to defend himself besides claim, which I don't think is warranted as of yet.

Willing to let hiphop off hook again.


DRK132: Thinks Toro is actually attempting to scumhunt, and thinks Jason's waivering on hiphop/fencesitting is suspicious.
DRK142: Analyzes hiphop wagon, finds Jason, IK, Paradox, and RC suspicious.
DRK146: Continues attack on Jason.
DRK180: Leans VI over scum for hiphop.
DRK190: Can see IKscum, but thinks hiphop town, votes IK.
DRK201: Calls RC suspicious, but not scummy.
DRK203: Calls IK's attack on RC suspicious.
DRK216: Inclusive list of IK argument.
IK/DRK quote war insues, about buddying of RC by DRK. Interesting take, as DRK thinks RC more likely town over IK.
DRK270: Scumlist-> IK, jason, hiphop
DRK296: more RC buddying.
DRK324: Mentions he could see RC being scum.
DRK372: Attacks Jason, votes Jason in following post.
DRK375: Doesn't find Zach scummy.
DRK423: Weird feelings about don's PR claim.
DRK446: FOS DTM.
DRK473: FOS Toro for voting after Zach
DRK502: Agrees with Don that Jason's 500 is awful.
DRK525: Approves of Jason, IK, toro, or hiphop lynch (Biggest suspects from D1)
DRK547: Votes Jason, says he's less blatantly scum than IK.
DRK579: Addresses Zach, just to say his own vote hopping can be seen as suspicious, but explains why it isn't in this situation.
DRK615: Defends against hiphops claim that DRK would have hammered if [hiphop] kept his vote on.
DRK623: Calls out Toro for claiming now...
DRK650: Doesn't believe Jason's claim.

Word of note: DRK rarely has any interaction with DTM, paradox, Shrine/Iceman, Zach, and Dank/don (moreso than the others).

Given this information, and IK's revealed alignment, I can see where the Vig/SK (most likely scenario in my opinion, see above) killed DRK. Their argument didn't seem staged at all, and definitely comes off as a town vs. scum argument.

Oh and Jason, results from last night?

Toro, who did you RB?

Not to mention, this could be a setup, by which we beleive Toro RBed the mafia, when in actuality they no lynched, but my head is starting to hurt thinking about it.

In final, what were the exact interactions that people had with IK? A compiled list would be good, but right now I do not have the time to go look.

Mod, what is the order of actions for the night?

[jasonT1981]

Just checking in...

investigated Dons claim of having a PR as it seemed so vague and I did have some suspicions on him.

I got a report back that my investigation was 'inconclusive' So i feel I may have been roleblocked by Toro.

Interesting in the DRK kill, he was pushing me very hard and wanting my lynch. I have a theory based on why he was killed and there was no mafia kill.

As you see in the write up DRK was the 'mafia goon'

[/color]

DeathRowKitty, Mafia Goon, was eliminated N1

now in my limited experience Mafia goons are usually the ones who make the kill, and therefor he didn't get a nightkill in as he was targeted by either a 2nd mafia or SK/Vig as Ryan also touched on.

[DTMaster]

Wow love the flavour :3.

@DRK's death
1. IK might be on to something, during the whole post war scenario there might be an established DRK-RC link there. Though DRK's death this legitimizes this claim, not IK's, which is actually ironic here.

2. Crazy theory but Mafia killing themselves to generate confusion? Since one of the obvious routes from DRK is to analyze his relations with the other townies. It would clear a lot of the suspicion generated on Jason and Toro just based on his death. It would also redirect us towards attacking the day one pro-town players. This might be too WIFOMic though to continue with this line of thought.

@Multiscum Theory
I have to agree with ryan, due to the mini setup and the lack of flavour text in the mafia name to me it's much more likely to have a SK/Vig player instead of two mafia factions.

@RC
Hold on:

I'm a little concerned with what happened to the kill. A number of things could have happened, as don already touched on.

I think the most logical explanation is that DRK was in charge of submitting the night action for his team, and he was killed before it could take place?

Would that work? That explains to me why only one kill went through.

1. You cannot possibly know this. The only way you could even speculate something like this is if you were scum with DRK. Also see 3 for more.

2. It's much more likely that a doc protect or Toro's RB claim is true which explains the lack of town kills. Even bullet proof roles and hiders are much more likely. Don's statement touches on SKs and Vigs as well.

3. DRK's kill will resolve even if she gets killed if the person didn't have NK protection. The only possible way she couldn't kill is explained in 2.

The idea of cross-kills means that your statement is false (ie cross-kills is when two opposing scum factions hit each other. in a situation of 1 town and 2 opposing scum faction scenario the townie can win at night if the two scums hit and kill each other. it doesn't matter what order the kills work or else doc protects wouldn't work if they PMed after the scum target.)

Unless this is a new mechanic that the mod has in this game, the above is the traditional setting that I see in most mafia games.

@Ryan
A redirector is likely, I read about that role in Tar's game.

Some points:
1. The first point in your DRK analysis is a bit weak with the vote on Zach. Possible buddying with Jason, possible distancing with Zach. It's a bit early since it was the RVS stage but establishes a potential link between DRK-Jason.

2. Potential DRK-hiphop link could be interpreted from your third point. Early distancing then buddying?

The rest I haven't read yet since I have work to go soon so I'll comment more after.

You beat me to asking Jason and Toro the questions though. :p It would be a good start to look at the targets.

[DTMaster]

@Jason see my response to RC number 1,2,3.

[DTMaster]

HOLD ON: New idea. Mafia traitor! DRK could have been the Mafia traitor which normally is revealed as a goon. READ THIS WIKI

I believe that scum targeted DRK thinking he was protown, when he was actually the traitor. <3 Inspiration

[Toro]

@ryan7254: Unbelievably, I actually picked DRK.

[don_johnson]

drk seemed to avoid the toro wagon the most. the buddying to rc was rather extensive and it may just have been scum to town as rc suggests. of note is one early post(15-17 of iso, i think) where drk lists his top suspects regarding the hiphop wagon. jason/paradox/rc/ik. jason remains on his scumdar all day, though the dropping of rc from that list could be something as well. towards the end of the day he seems bent on the ik lynch with jason as his "second". he seems to drop hiphop and due to their interactions and his early defense and hiphopwagon analysis i think hiphop is most likely not aligned with drk. of course, this analysis should not eliminate any of these players from scrutiny as possible sk.

my list of possible partners as of now is: zach/jason/rc/toro and not in that order.

investigated Dons claim of having a PR as it seemed so vague and I did have some suspicions on him.

jason: please quote the post of mine that you actually investigated.

i agree with ryan that mafia#2 is less likely than vig/sk. if we have a successful vig, however, they should certainly be claiming at some point today so as to avoid confusion. not to rolefish here, but one successful vig shot should be considered a success from any town aligned players view point. hiding your existence may be problematic if we get to a lylo situation.

[jasonT1981]

jason: please quote the post of mine that you actually investigated.

Sure

b) voting me will not motivate me. i am operating under time constraints, therefore i will put forth my best effort. due to these constraints

i will claim a town power role.

i will not divulge what type so as to contribute to the wifom of scum's night choices. i claim now because dj is an inevitable wagon(due to his playstyle) and i do not want town to waste time.

The bit highlighted is the bit I investigated.

[don_johnson]

ok. i wanted to make sure you highlighted something with my alignment as well as the role claim.

toro: please explain your choice. what made you suspicious of drk?

[alexhans]

Mod, what is the order of actions for the night?

Just the usual. For reference: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ght_Choice

[Toro]

It was a crapshoot really, had IK not've died I would've selected him to be roleblocked N1.

[ryan2754]

Personally, either Toro, Don, or Jason is lying, if not maybe two of them.
Given the current set up, there is no way all three of them are power roles, given the issue with the NK.

Right now, Toro seems most likely lying, as I could see him and DRK making this a mafia RB "block the night kill" ploy, in an attempt to clear Toro while sacrificing DRK.

It's slightly convenient that Jason got that result. However, his claim to me makes sense given the possible flavor. But that is an issue I will be able to better address later in the game.
Jason, why do you think you got an inconclusive result, save a RB?

Personally, I think Toro is lying.

Vote: Toro

, as I feel he is a Mafia RBer