Open 155 - Jungle Republic - Game Over before 816

[mykonian]

Myko, are you really blaming Chaos for trying to deconstruct the Hero wagon when the other wagon was a SCUM-wagon?

it seems that way Post by post reading this game, this post made the alarms go off. Since Chaos had one post earlier doing the same, defending (or buddying, just how you like it)

[Crazy]

Myko, are you really blaming Chaos for trying to deconstruct the Hero wagon when the other wagon was a SCUM-wagon?

it seems that way Post by post reading this game, this post made the alarms go off. Since Chaos had one post earlier doing the same, defending (or buddying, just how you like it)

Well, I've done roughly the same thing regarding Hero as well as falko. For me, defending wagons has always been my style. I don't see anything wrong with that; as town, if you don't like a wagon, what's wrong with stopping it in favor of a better wagon in your opinion?

[mykonian]

Myko, are you really blaming Chaos for trying to deconstruct the Hero wagon when the other wagon was a SCUM-wagon?

it seems that way Post by post reading this game, this post made the alarms go off. Since Chaos had one post earlier doing the same, defending (or buddying, just how you like it)

Well, I've done roughly the same thing regarding Hero as well as falko. For me, defending wagons has always been my style. I don't see anything wrong with that; as town, if you don't like a wagon, what's wrong with stopping it in favor of a better wagon in your opinion?

the fact that you also have brought stuff against people: however I have much less idea what Chaos actually accomplished. Defenses seem a too big part of his play.

But on a more constructive note, since Chaos is my third pick or so, do you agree with me about falko and hero. Maybe a harder question, if I said they were buddies, would you believe me?

[Crazy]

But on a more constructive note, since Chaos is my third pick or so, do you agree with me about falko and hero. Maybe a harder question, if I said they were buddies, would you believe me?

They could be buddies, but searching through their posts, I don't see anything that particularly suggests that one way or the other. Did you notice something?

Hero's claim probably does make him more likely to be scum; however, as I felt yesterday, I still don't think it's a good idea to lynch him today.

Falko is just plain not interested in this game. That's anti-town, but not scummy. If we're going after lurkerscum, I think OP is a much, much better target, for posts such as this:

While I agree with everyone you said, I am getting a extremely bad vibe from this post. I don't know how to explain it, but the fact that you're voting based on something out-of-thread just seems... opportunistic? Not sure if that is the best way to describe it. But I do agree that what he is doing is scummy, but maybe he has a reason for what he did? Also, you said town about 100 times in that post, making you a bit desperate to sound town. I don't know.

See, he says basically nothing, with no amount of force whatsoever, just trying to post

something

, really.

[mykonian]

is this the moment to get stubborn?

I see your point with OP. It is maybe that I have played earlier with him...

[mykonian]

and it was more that I couldn't imagine falko to be mafia... But I don't remember why anymore... Just that I shouldn't think of them as buddies if it wasn't possible.

[orangepenguin]

Unbelievable.

unvote, vote: Mastin

I'll switch back to Noramp at deadline if necessary to secure a lynch.

I feel like I'm in an episode of The Twilight Zone. I saw that post and was stunned. You have the balls to post in Mafia Discussion about how lurking isn't a scumtell while lurking in this game. Let me be the voice of common sense here and say that instead of making that useless post, you could have, oh, I don't know, POSTED IN THIS GAME. You've made over 40 posts since last posting here, so a no access excuse won't fly. And you can give me your bullshit "Oh, it's a null tell for me because everything's a null tell for me, blah blah blah", I don't care. You're lurking in this game, and regardless of your opinion on the matter, it's scummy as hell to me.

Let me quote something from your post to get more pissed off:

It's not pro-town to do,
And is inheritantly anti-town in nature,

Stop right here. You agree that lurking is anti-town. This means that lurking hurts the town. Now, if you're hurting the town, you're helping the scum (and werewolves in this case).

We could piss into the wind awhile and argue game theory and have a debate over whether lurking is a scumtell, but I'd rather not. The fact is, you're doing something that is hurting the town, regardless of your alignment. If you're town, your play right now is pretty pathetic, especially since you posted elsewhere saying that what you're doing is anti-town. The point of being a pro-town role is to do pro-town things. If you saw a nun out on the corner giving blowjobs for cash, you'd think she was a whore. Same concept here.

While I agree with everyone you said, I am getting a extremely bad vibe from this post. I don't know how to explain it, but the fact that you're voting based on something out-of-thread just seems... opportunistic? Not sure if that is the best way to describe it. But I do agree that what he is doing is scummy, but maybe he has a reason for what he did? Also, you said town about 100 times in that post, making you a bit desperate to sound town. I don't know.

I still am getting really bad vibes about this, and with others calling this post worthless, it's making it even worse and making me suspicious.

Vote: ChaosOmega

I'll try to put up a real case sooner or later, since you all think I am saying nothing, but whatever.

I'd be willing to lynch Mastin as well.

[Crazy]

Apparently you have a different case on Mastin than what Chaos said? Otherwise, that's pretty contradictory...

[Netlava]

Vote: falkomagno

Momentum ftw

[Flava Flave]

Ok, sorry for being away.

One thing that stands out on Day 1 is Netlava unvoting Hero after the seer claim, but revoting in the next post.

I like Chaos voting Noramp after Netlava and Noramp vote Hero. Townpoints there.

Of those who were active during the lynch, I notice Netlava off the wagon. Possible partner. Noramp's other buddy probably either bussed or was inactive. Also, Hero is probably not scum with Noramp.

I was waiting for falko, mastin, and flava to post their opinion of hero's claim, with the expectation that it was likely for one of them to hammer.

Still doesn't explain the vote on the claimed seer.

You are looking at a succesful lynch, the werewolves don't. It is a mislynch for them now. There lies the difference, if I am correct.

Why is this?

Conclusions:
1)People are expressing suspicion on OP, but not voting him. Why?
2)Falko is still scummy. Lurker, but still pops in to basically say nothing useful.
3)Crazy is pinging my gut. Probably won't lynch him today though.
4)I won't vote Hero. If he's scum, he'll be caught soon enough.
5)Netlava has become obvscum since Hero's claim.

Vote Netlava

[mykonian]

You are looking at a succesful lynch, the werewolves don't. It is a mislynch for them now. There lies the difference, if I am correct.

Why is this?

If you play scum, are you going to try to direct a lynch towards masons and call it a succesful lynch, or are you going to lynch anyone but you, and call it a mislynch? For this reason I suspect werewolves to have acted just as scum on a mislynch. More towards the middle and end of the wagon, etc. Not all on the same wagon.

[mykonian]

Noramp - 6 - Crazy, orangepenguin, ZazieR, Hero764, yabbaguy, ChaosOmega
yabbaguy
Flava Flave
Mastin
ZazieR
orangepenguin
Crazy
falkomagno
Netlava
ChaosOmega
Cephrir
Hero764 - 4 - Mastin, Cephrir, Flava Flave, Noramp

Not Voting: - 2 - falkomagno, Netlava

Now, it is perfectly possible that Noramp would be bussed. Hero? not that much. Seen that noramp was also the easiest target, esspecially after the claim, I would expect some scum to sit there. 3 or 4, probably. I would think these would be Chaos, OP, Hero. Noramp tried another weagon, but was not that eager to go on Hero, surprisingly. The last scum would then come from falko/Netlava. I lean towards Falko in that case. Seen post 539, where Falko is very interested in the seer-role, I would even think he is a werewolf:

vote Falko

the vote count etc.

[Flava Flave]

Ok, Myko is making sense. I think I misunderstood you at first.

[Crazy]

Seen post 539, where Falko is very interested in the seer-role, I would even think he is a werewolf

I think I just realized what you meant... holy crap. Wow, that changes a lot.

I could believe that falko didn't know that Hero claimed seer... that's what happens when you don't read the thread. But he also claimed ignorance of what the seer role even does.

I think he's trying to feign ignorance, there, due to the thing that ignorance of the setup is a town-tell.

Seriously, there are role PMs on the front page, yes? Even if he didn't read that at the start, how could he have not stumbled upon those yet?

And even if he

didn't

stumble on the role PMs yet, he would have seen the constant references to multiple scum-teams even early Day 1, and wondered how everybody knew so much information about the setup, right? And still, he doesn't know what the seer does, or even where to find out what the seer does, because he asks me!

Vote: Falko

Does anyone find it plausible that Falko wouldn't know that by now?

[mykonian]

I hadn´t thought that far, but that question was weird.

[ZazieR]

Not my thoughts. He first tried to distance himself from his partner. Then, when it seemed it was either him or Hero (Again), he tried his best to prevent his lynch by trying to get a non-mafia lynched.
If Hero is scum, he's a Werewolf.

This "partner" you're referring to is Flava? Why would you think that was distancing rather than just trying to get a wagon other than Hero or himself?

It just seems silly to discount the possibility of Hero being mafia.

Yes, I''m referring to Flava.
It doesn''t have to do with Noramp''s attack though.
First, we have this post:

@everyone: is it to our best interest to try and kill scum first? obviously we want them dead but if we were to take out the werewolves first wouldn't we be left with 3 really gimped scum. i guess what I'm getting at is if Mastin is actually correct and he nailed the three scum members within two pages of thread, is it to our advantage to lynch them or should we set our sights higher?

As said, I think this is a post, trying to get discussion away. The players who got discussed first were: Ceph, Mastin, Hero, Falko and Flava.
Of those, Ceph and Mastin are most likely not the partner(s) we''re looking for. Both almost got no attention. And if they did get attention, most players disagreed with it.
Leaving Hero, Flava and Falko.
Secondly, Flava is a busser and very stubborn. When he thinks somebody is scum, he''ll keep attacking that player until lynched or until a new suspect arrives. Neither was the case here when he changed his vote towards Hero. Also, during this time, he had a big argument with Noramp. So his vote on Hero didn''t make sense to me.
Third, Flava is according to Hero not a Wolf.

Add them together, and Flava is very likely a partner of Noramp.


As for Hero probably not being mafia, you should think about this question:
Would mafia claim the only town role that can ''kill'' their other enemies?

[ZazieR]

227:

FOS: Flava Flave

Unvote, Vote Hero. I think more people will be willing to lynch him than Falko. I still plan to come back to Falko though. Noramp as well.

So, if I deconstruct this, you jump ship to put somebody at L-2 because of the fact that more people want him strung up, without providing any other reasoning. You could say that you were adding pressure, but I think this early, L-2 is a tad excessive. The motive jumping out at me is opportunistic scum adding to a bandwagon with no additional evidence. Also, with the talk about coming back to other people strikes me the wrong way, like you're giving yourself a way to back out.

this is trying to deconstruct a perfectly good wagon, for the reason that Flava also thinks Falko suspicious

Disagreed. Had he attacked multiple players on the Hero wagon, then yes. This seems to me to be an attack on something he thinks is scummy. With which I agree.

Also, happy scumday ^.^

[ZazieR]

the fact that you also have brought stuff against people: however I have much less idea what Chaos actually accomplished. Defenses seem a too big part of his play.

I''d like to hear an elaboration on this.

[ZazieR]

If we're going after lurkerscum, I think OP is a much, much better target

Didn''t you state earlier that you always see OP as lurkerscum?
And the same can be said about your posts. Meta supports that it''s scummy for you, but not for OP.

[ZazieR]

I'd be willing to lynch Mastin as well.

Why Mastin?

[ZazieR]

Flava

If you had been active at the end of D1, would you have hammered Noramp or not and why?

[ZazieR]

Crazy

In response to this post, what''s the difference between this and Noramp calling the Seer cop?

[Crazy]

If we're going after lurkerscum, I think OP is a much, much better target

Didn''t you state earlier that you always see OP as lurkerscum?
And the same can be said about your posts. Meta supports that it''s scummy for you, but not for OP.

OP does always look like lurkerscum; I just think especially so this time, mainly due to his post about Chaos. I believe my original null-read on him was before that post.

"Lurker-scum" as I used it there refers more to how he's trying to appear like he's posting content but really not. That's a scum-tell for everybody, even OP IMO.

Crazy
In response to this post, what''s the difference between this and Noramp calling the Seer cop?

Well, Noramp was scum, so I don't think this argument is very valid.

For Noramp's case, though, it's just semantics. Notice how he said the Seer "is like a cop to the WW's." He wasn't attempting to show ignorance to the setup, and he didn't claim that he didn't know what the seer was. He just called it a cop, likely because that's a more common role name.

[mykonian]

the fact that you also have brought stuff against people: however I have much less idea what Chaos actually accomplished. Defenses seem a too big part of his play.

I''d like to hear an elaboration on this.

sorry, you aren't getting one. Since it is my impression of Chaos, not something I have investigated. I just read the thread and this was the image of Chaos that sticked. To check every post Chaos made (although that can't be a lot) is not interesting, makes for posts that are unreadable and actually don't give anything new.

And I like your case on Flava, very very much. You could be very well right here.

unvote vote Flava

. Towny person bringing good case = bandwagon and scumlynch

[mykonian]

Flava: why was yabba nightkilled? Since I am not getting the answer from Falko, obviously.