I did make clear yesterday that I suspected KMD, you know. I also made clear yesterday my opinion that KMD's response to Elvis's attack was quite odd, to say the least.Ojanen wrote:I feel like Yos is putting gasoline to a town-town fight and I don't like it.
ESPECIALLY because he didn't want to comment on Kmd vs. Elvis at the time it originally happened.
Anyway, the biggest thing right now is KMD's vote for elvis today. There's no way that makes sense at this point if KMD is town; it seems entierly based on a "Elvis attacked me yesterday so I'm going to vote her" attitude that's just inherently scummy.
Bandwagoning someone to a claim, and then trying to drop the wagon and bandwagon someone else once they claim vanilla, is a scum tell, especally on day 1. Those kind of tactics, repeated bandwagon-to-a-claim stuff, are just the easiest way for a scum to flush out town power roles.Also, I do not think Kmd dropping Bridges for vanilla claim was a scumtell. I see little realistic scum benefit (the wagon wasn't gonna lose it bloodlust for that anyway, prospect of getting someone else to claim was unrealistic I think) and the obscurish wifom seemed townish.
ALso, I find it kind of funny that you're assuming the B&B wagon was going to go at that through no matter what, when just yesterday I was being attacked for "joining the B&B wagon when it was starting to lose steam", heh.
In any case, if KMD is scum, that kind of thing is a win/win for him; either he gets to bandwagon someone else to a claim, or else if the lynch does happen anyway he gets to wash his hands of the whole thing by bailing out on the wagon, thus making himself look better when people do voting analysis later in the game. The thing is, there is absolutly no reason a pro-town person should ever leave a wagon in response to a vanillia claim, especally on day 1. So, yeah, I think it's a scum tell; it's a move scum have reason to do, and vanilla town don't.
Ojanen, you seem to be missing the key point here, and what's more disturbing, you seem to be doing so by not quoting the most relevent parts of what I said yesterday.Remember this?
Yos wrote:I didn't think your attack on him was especally convincing (I mentioned that breiefly, I believe), but I don't have enough a read on him to defend him at this point, and letting the wagon happen would probably provide more information. About the only valid point made is that the way he defended himself against your accusation was a little odd; he went into a whole long thing about why one would assume there are X scum in the game, which was strange since he really didn't seem to be assuming that in the first place.elvis wrote:Yos, why were you purposely not commenting on me/kmd?
That being said, I'm also not too impressed by the attack against you; B&B isn't entierly incorrect that it seems like you overstreached a bit in your attack against KMD, but not to a great degree; you seem a little iffy in some ways, but I don't really think the attack-against-you-for-attacking-KMD really makes sense either.
Anyway, I think we've got a heck of a lot more information then we would have if I had just stepped in right away and said "No, Elvis, you're misinterpreting KMD here". It was much more informative for me to sit back and wait, and see how he defended himself instead, and to see who took sides for him and against him.It doesn't outright contradict his current stance although it's MUCH, much more severe, but Kmd has been consistent with his elvis vote (I don't agree with either but that's not the point here), and now Yos decides to go after him for no apparent new impulse in his behaviour.Yos wrote:(shurg) I was contributing, I thought. I just wasn't talking about the Elvis/KMD/B&B three-way fight much, because I didn't really agree with any of those arguments, but at the same time didn't want to defend any of the three of them.
It smells of deciding his stance on earlier happenings much afterwards, which town shouldn't need to do.
Do you remember this?
I thought I made pretty clear that, by letting KMD answer the questions himself, we got to hear his defense, which was odd, and not at all what I would expected, and that, from that, I was able to get a read on both KMD and Elvis.Yosarian2 wrote:
If it's early in day 1, and I have no information, then when player X attacks player Y, and I don't have a read on either of them yet, it's often better to let player Y defend himself and see what happens. Town often gets a lot more information by letting player Y answer his own questions and defend his own actions, rather then someone else doing it for him.
In this case, when KMD answered Elvis's questions, the answers were quite interesting, don't you think? Not at all what I would have expected. And so was the back and fourth that followed, and the people that followed onto the Elvis wagon, and B&B's reaction to Elvis especally.
That series of events let me get a pretty good read on KMD, on Elvis, and on bridges, I think, as well as starting to give me an idea about who might be connected to who. If I had stepped in and just said "Elvis, I think you misunderstood what KMD said there" we would have got absolutely nothing from the whole exchange.
In other words, just like I said yesterday, by not stepping in and responding to Elvis' initial post on page 4, and instad hearing KMD's defense and all that, I was able to figure out that KMD is probably scum and Elvis is probably town. Which is what I've been saying all along. How the hell could you call that a "contradiction" of what I was saying yesterday? That is EXACTALLY what I was saying yesterday, especally later in the day.
