The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw Stepho, if you turn out to be scum here I mean you deserve some kind of award, I mean something by your name for awhile I mean dang if you're scum you just totally won this for the scum faction. I mean you have done so well I won't vote you under any circumstances and I think anyone trying to weaken your role here is anti-town; I'll defend you to the death.

[Percy]

We need some level heads here to work this out or its auto-win for scum.

He's catching on, folks.


So we have the following cleared by Stephoscope:

-dramonic
-populartajo

We have the following cleared (posthumously) by Naomi:

-Devestation

We have the following cleared from general observation:

-Amished

This leaves:

-Percy
-ZazieR
-Lamont_Cranston
-Stephoscope

Possibilities:

-Stephoscope is scum, playing a brilliant game.
-Stephoscope is naive, making all her results invalid. Anyone (except Dev) could be scum.
-One or both of dramonic, Dev and populartajo are immune to investigations.
-Percy, ZazieR and L_C are the remaining scum.

It occurs to me that, given ZazieR is sitting on two votes, that those voting her should unvote right now. Before you cry "OMG PERCY IS DEFENDING ZAZIE", I think the fact that she has been sitting on two votes and hasn't been quicklynched could be indicative of scum, but I'm not sure.

Swamped right now. Will catch up tomorrow evening.

[Lamont_Cranston]

We need some level heads here to work this out or its auto-win for scum.

He's catching on, folks.

No, I think you are catching on. Before Stepho reported in it was a clear win for the town.

Stephoscope is scum, playing a brilliant game.

I am not willing to consider this as there is nothing we can do to salvage a win for town here.

Stephoscope is naive, making all her results invalid.

How does this fit flavor though? Without the flavor I think this idea is terribly wrong.

One or both of dramonic, Dev and populartajo are immune to investigations.

I think it makes sense to conclude that there is one GF amongst the scum. I think it will be impossible to determine who short of a lynch.

Percy, ZazieR and L_C are the remaining scum.

I don't see how this makes sense. You can't include yourself in your own list. Why would you do this? Are you just reaching too far to appear as town? Clearly your list here SHOULD read Tajo, Zazier & L_C but you put yourself instead. Please explain as I think it looks scummy.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because we know for certain there has to be a GF we are screwed and we will just have to take our best guess.

Mod votecount please.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Percy is right and we should start voting in blue non-bolded or something which means an intention to vote.

Unvote

Vote Zazier

I think we just have to face the fact that one of our innocents is actually a guilty. Seeing that is the case I am guessing that it would be best to vote for someone that doesn't have an innocent peek yet (obviously).

So that leaves:

Zazier
Percy
Lamont_Cranston

HAHA! I just got Percy's post! LMAO. Dam that puts a whole different light on it.

The question is: Is there room for BOTH me AND Percy to be town here...

The answer is no, not with only one GF. One of us has to be scum because we have lost if Stepho is scum anyway and it doesn't fit flavor for him to be naive and so this means Percy MUST be scum.

So our votes are safe with either Percy or Zazier here.

[Devestation]

I have half an idea I want to lynch Lamont now, and stepho with him, because he hasnt bothered to clear or convict either Zazier OR Lamont.

For now,

Vote: Zazier

[dramonic]

Give me a good reason for not believing the scum is Percy, LC and Zaz

[Stephoscope]

Btw Stepho, if you turn out to be scum here I mean you deserve some kind of award, I mean something by your name for awhile I mean dang if you're scum you just totally won this for the scum faction. I mean you have done so well I won't vote you under any circumstances and I think anyone trying to weaken your role here is anti-town; I'll defend you to the death.

Well, I'm not scum, and I am completely disappointed in my performance. I really have been trying my best to locate the scum at night. Naomi was a no-brainer night one, Pablo was a hunch and at least his unfortunate modkill backed up my claim, I had been clear about my suspicions of dramonic, and then last night I passed up Pyromaniac (who I thought was obvscum and would be today's lynch for sure) and took a shot at populartajo, who I thought might be lurking scum.

I have half an idea I want to lynch Lamont now, and stepho with him, because he hasnt bothered to clear or convict either Zazier OR Lamont.

*shrug* I only get to pick one person per night, and I've been clear about why I made the choices I made. But through process of elimination, there are only a few candidates for scum left.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote Count

ZazieR: 2 - dramonic, Devestation

Not Voting: Everyone else.

OP will be updated at some point, I AM on holiday, y'know.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Give me a good reason for not believing the scum is Percy, LC and Zaz

One of our innocents is a GF. That could be Tajo or anyone else that has been declared innocent by a cop.

[Lamont_Cranston]

At least we can be sure that Percy, Zazier and L_C are NOT GF's.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And just for clarification:

The safe votes today are either Percy or Zazier.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Eventually we are going to get down to the small list of innocent peeks and we will just have to guess and that will decide the game.

[dramonic]

Give me a good reason for not believing the scum is Percy, LC and Zaz

One of our innocents is a GF. That could be Tajo or anyone else that has been declared innocent by a cop.

That supposes you aren't lying scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, one thing I CAN tell you. Stepho's peeks will be reliable from now on because we've already hit our GF on the peek list.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Unless I somehow pick up a signal in the middle of the jungle(currently on holiday in Borneo), I will be away until Thursday.

[Percy]

Lamont, stop making assumptions ffs.
RULE 13. PLEASE READ IT.
For example,

At least we can be sure that Percy, Zazier and L_C are NOT GF's.

What the hell? How do you know there is only one? STOP IT STOP IT FFFFFUUUUUUU


OK, so what I decided to do was throw out the investigate results temporarily and go back to my reads.

Steph is probtown. He did vote to lynch Naomi (which I think was a really, really, REALLY bad move), but I did say this:

Believe

her

his claim. Scum-steph and his scum-buddies would know the Trilby claim to be accurate. If this was a scumclaim and they lynch Naomi before he dies,

s

he looks great. If Steph gets vigged or lynched before that, though, Trilby is almost confirmed - and as unNKable, would be a huge problem later and would have to be endgamed. Too risky to claim this, so I'm going with Steph-protown for now.

I wanted to look at the investigations, because something wasn't right, but I don't think it's because Steph has been lying to us.
Devestation was cleared by Naomi, and I'm still happy to believe that.
I looked at Amished, and his stalling of the Naomi wagon and extension of hohum/Elmo's life is pretty good evidence that he's town. Pyro's flip made me go ? on that front, but it may very well be the case that Amished is a third party or something. Not what we need to deal with today, imo.

Right, so for the moment those three are the ones I will not be voting for. It is possible that one of them got recruited to the scum, or perhaps became an SK. We can deal with that tomorrow, if there is one.

That leaves:
dramonic
populartajo
L_C
ZazieR

L_C is... I don't know. I get some townvibes (e.g. the shell stuff), though I think he's got anti-town attitudes and makes anti-town plays. Antitown != scum, but if he doesn't stop with this "THE GAME IS OVER HAHA I KNOW EVERYTHING" attitude he will get my vote.
I will ask:
@L_C: Humour me here. Forget about the investigations, and just reach for your internal scumdar. Who are the scum?

dramonic gave me scumvibes for the whole game. He asked Amished how many protections he has, I never liked the Rock/L-K case, and he jumped off that case to pursue Setael and jumped back on it after Setael died without pausing for breath. I also don't like the "this sucks" after the zwet lynch, or his behaviour with L_C today.
Now Steph cleared him, and Steph's attitude towards the clearing may have started me on my "maybe Steph is scum" thought train, but I'd like to ask:
@Steph: How much faith do you have in your investigations? Who do you think are scum?
If you had investigated someone else, would you be pushing for a dramonic lynch today?

I didn't like populartajo's suggestion of the 'give the doll to L-K', and I thought that this may indicate that he's the doll-holder. Aside from a bit of a lurk about him, I'm happier with populartajo being town than L_C.

I'm going to give ZazieR a proper read. I don't have the time to do that today, but I'll get around to it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Of your list Tajo and Zazier are the most scummy. This excludes entirely the VT role PM.

1) Zazier -- Severe Role PM fishing
2) Tajo -- Scum lurker

I think your suggestion that there is more than one GF is absurd.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Therefore the vote MUST be Zazier which is where my vote is.

[Percy]

1. There must be some cognitive dissonance going on in your brain, because you said:

Yes but as I've stated, the difference here is that now we know that you and Zazier and Tajo have the VT role PM. So none of our reasoning is based on that anymore. This is why now we are certain.

Why criticise ZazieR for fishing for a role PM she already has? Therefore, it must be:
2. The only instance of "non-VT PM fishing" I could find was when she asked Steph what her flavour was. Is this what you're referring to? If so, I am unconvinced as to why this should earn my vote, and why it is "severe". It doesn't look great, but neither does dramonic asking for how many protections Amished has. So, yeah, try some evidence and reasoned logic, kthx.

3. More than one scum who is immune to investigations is not absurd.

4.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Elaborate, now.

[Lamont_Cranston]

1. There must be some cognitive dissonance going on in your brain, because you said:

Yes but as I've stated, the difference here is that now we know that you and Zazier and Tajo have the VT role PM. So none of our reasoning is based on that anymore. This is why now we are certain.

Why criticise ZazieR for fishing for a role PM she already has? Therefore, it must be:
2. The only instance of "non-VT PM fishing" I could find was when she asked Steph what her flavour was. Is this what you're referring to? If so, I am unconvinced as to why this should earn my vote, and why it is "severe". It doesn't look great, but neither does dramonic asking for how many protections Amished has. So, yeah, try some evidence and reasoned logic, kthx.

3. More than one scum who is immune to investigations is not absurd.

4.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Elaborate, now.

Did you really just bring this up?? Are you just skimming?? It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM and therefore all scum lists have been purged of this consideration. Dear goodness. Well I shouldn't be suprised because you have to be scum anyway.

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage. In the final stage when we are forced to guess, a Tajo vote will be possible but only then. First we have to get rid of the confirmed scum:

Zazier
Percy

[Percy]

It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM

Where was this proven?

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Drills on

whose

role PM? Where?
I already mentioned the Steph instance, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Show me.

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage.

Yes, I can see that it doesn't have to be Tajo. I don't know whether there even is a GF, or if all scum come up vanilla to Steph's investigates, or whatever else may be going on in this game.
Your logic seems to go like this:
1. All the Innocents should believe that Tajo is Innocent
2. Anyone who doesn't is therefore not Innocent.
Is that seriously what you're proposing?

Also, when did I become "confirmed scum"?

[Lamont_Cranston]

It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM

Where was this proven?

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Drills on

whose

role PM? Where?
I already mentioned the Steph instance, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Show me.

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage.

Yes, I can see that it doesn't have to be Tajo. I don't know whether there even is a GF, or if all scum come up vanilla to Steph's investigates, or whatever else may be going on in this game.
Your logic seems to go like this:
1. All the Innocents should believe that Tajo is Innocent
2. Anyone who doesn't is therefore not Innocent.
Is that seriously what you're proposing?

Also, when did I become "confirmed scum"?

The town role PM is moot and no longer being used to determine the scum so you bringing it up is useless.

She drills on EVRYBODY's role PM over and over specifying the EXACT words used and gauging reactions. That is exactly what she was doing; everybody saw the witch hunt she pulled it went on PAGE AFTER PAGE -- you can't possibly tell me you missed it!

Ok so you still posit the naive theory. Where is the flavor to fit that? Also if he is naive we lose anyway.

Tajo is NOT guaranteed innocent. Tajo is PROBABLY the GF but he is not certainly so; he shares that probability with several other people that have come up innocent. ANYONE THAT VOTES HIM

NOW

IS ACTING ANTI-TOWN. This is clear because there are two players that MUST be scum that cannot be GF (the idea that there is more than one GF is insane). The time to vote Tajo (if we do) is after we get rid of the two confirmed scum:

Percy
Zazier

By process of elimination you are the only two left.

[dramonic]

you know you keep saying "the others cleared by Steph" but I'm the only other. It's not like you don't know that, you made a scum list with who you believe is scum. The fact you'd miss something so obvious so often makes me think the scum team has good chances of being Zaz, Percy and You.

But I'm still willing to rely on Steph for checking you and Percy.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You have to admit Percy is pretty dedicated scum. He doesn't want to leave the scum win to the chance of a random vote (when we have to play "guess the GF"), he wants to end it early ftw.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Dramonic its not just Stepho. It also is Naomi. But you are right, I haven't sat down and figured out the list, but ONE of the people that have been declared innocent by our cops is a GF.