Mini 817: Chosen (Game Over!)

[Dry-fit]

1. You're wrong about Herodotus not having voted for anyone before he hammered Special Ed on day 2. It doesn't show up in the vote counts but he did vote for Dry-fit after Dry-fit had voted don_johnson (and curiously don_johnson responded by voting Herodotus for the complete circle.) It doesn't show up in the official vote counts though so I suppose that's something I can chalk up to simply not being careful.

Yes but this was just a "trap" vote, so I'm not sure how much stock you can put into it.

I don't like Mitey's 532 attack on Herodotus. It looks like more desperate attempts to throw attention elsewhere. First she suggests Raivann voting for Hero was an early bus attempt, an obvious possibility but she provides no evidence for it. Then an accusation about him not placing a vote until hammering, which is not only false, but why would it matter anyway?

Ok...so first you are saying that the vote doesn't really count to defend yourself and then you say that it does count in order to attack me? I know that I'm not really one to talk here Dry fit but, you are really tnneled on me here.

No, if anything it was defending Herodotus. My point was that it does not count as a serious attempt to get me lynched. What does count is your bad attack on him which is factually incorrect. Instead of addressing my points you have just misrepresented me.

[MiteyMouse]

I had already adressed ypur points Dry Fit. Just after Hero posted his chart. That vwas actually before you made them...

[MiteyMouse]

Dry-fit's reaction to what I'd said about Herodotus's point and then use of it immediately after is pretty bizarre but do MiteyMouse and don_johnson really think that tunneled on MiteyMouse is a fair description of his play today?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I'm going to go and look at all of his Day 3 posts and see Zorblag.

Post 1:
Mitey top of Scum list, Zorblag looks Town, don't like Hero Hammer. Then answering some questions

Post 2:
Mitey trying to deflect attention. Answering a question from Hero and asking some of Zorblag.

Post3:
Mitey is not likely the chosen.

Post4:
Mitey trying to deflect attention.

Post 5:
Attack on Mitey.

He had 5 posts so far on Day 3. Of those, the were 5 pokes of suspicion at me and one at Hero. I'd say he appears pretty tunnelled.

[Zorblag]

That's an interesting take on his 5 posts. Let me read through them and see what I see him saying:

Post 1: He finds MiteyMouse the most suspicious, Herodotus's hammer looks suspect, Zorblag is looking better based on day two actions, his vote for don_johnson was a quick reaction at the time and he needs to reread afatchic and he answers some questions from Zorblag and Herodotus.

Post 2: He replies to MiteyMouse's question about a statement he made about her earlier, answers a question from Herodotus about a statement he made about him earlier and questions Zorblag's read on don_johnson as well as don_johnson's read on BloodCovenent.

Post 3: He agrees with Zorblag that MiteyMouse isn't likely to be the chosen if both don_johnson and Zorblag flip town but he doesn't support setting up a MiteyMouse self hammer in LyLo ahead of time.

Post 4: He disagrees with how Zorblag is characterizing something and then takes issue with the conclusions MiteyMouse is drawing about Herodotus based on the evidence she's presenting.

Post 5: He addresses MiteyMouse's accusation of tunneling.

I don't see tunneling there at all. I see Dry-fit looking at and interacting with all the players in the game. If you think that he's suspicious of you in particular I won't deny that but his comments about you have been answers to things you've said as much as anything else.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Herodotus]

I just did a reread of afa, then Don.
Don doesn't look particularly scummy to me, but I could see afa as Raivann's partner.

vote: Don_Johnson

@MM: in post 532, do you consider not voting until late in the day to be a scumtell?

[don_johnson]

can you expand on this "partnership"?

[Herodotus]

Among ISO 5, 7, and 8, afa is dismissive of PZ's vote on Nuwen. ISO 8 is a

textbook

chainsaw defense if afa is scum.
ISO 9 and 10 -- he didn't include Nuwen on his list of people to exclude from being the chosen. This isn't solid evidence against him, however it does fit with Nuwen being a scumbuddy whom he doesn't want lynched.
(As a side note, Raivann said he would exclude afa, but then Raivann also said he'd exclude himself, and "Zorblag" (as opposed to nadroj,) so I think Raivann may simply have been confused.)
ISO 13 and 14 -- actually I agree that PZ was reaching, so it's not scummy for afa to say so.
After that, these:

Can someone please present to me the case against Raivann, since i am really not seeing it.

So then Raivann is scum for defending Ash?

are the only other things he said about Raivann and his wagon. If he were still here, I figure he'd mention how inactive he was due to RL, but he made five posts before the hammer, and Raivann had the biggest wagon the whole time.

[don_johnson]

not bad. i really can't speak for afat's play. in my experience afat doesn't always pay a whole lot of attention to his games. i would have had town afat lynched in lylo in a recent completed game if it weren't for a late game levelheaded replacement. but whatever. if i flip chosen that places suspicion squarely on you, so... i would rather lynch dry-fit at the present time.

[Zorblag]

We're now four days from deadline for the day. We don't want to go to deadline with no lynch so we really should be picking up the pace of discussion here.

Dry-fit and MiteyMouse I believe that you've both been on and not posted in this thread in the past 24 hours (and actually the past 12 hours for that matter.) You're now the two who aren't voting. I'm not sure that I even know where you might be leaning unless it's possibly for eachother. In any case it'd be good to hear what you'd like us to do and it'd be good to hear that sooner rather than later.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MiteyMouse]

MommyMouse called while I was making this post...and you can't ignore MommyMouse...hehehe!

I'm actually really torn on my vote here. This Chosen dynamic is not one that I'm overly familiar with and it's making me second guess everything...especially as we get closer to the end of the game and the deadline for that matter.

I think the Zorblag is most likely Town. That actually worries me as, he has pulled to woll over my eyes before...hehehe!

The rest of you I am pretty torn on.

Don...well you look like you could be the easiest lynch today and that in and of itself makes me really reluctant to put my vote on you. The Scum, at this point need the Chosen gone. I don't like some of the implications that you have made but, I'd be willing to look closer tomorrow if you are still alive...2 votes on you is enough to keep me away for now.

Dry-fit...You going after me (both you and your previous incarnation) really strikes me. Though, I do have a pretty big ego in games and cannot be sure that I would be feeling the same level of suspicion if it weren't me that was the target of so much of your attention.

Hero...completely slipped under my radar beacause I thought that he was the most likely chosen. After reading him with the possibility of him not being, he could look just as much Scum as Town. What I find interesting is that Papa and Ed to a lesser extend cuddled up to Hero a bit before they died. I'm just kind of wondering if this could be a Scummy form of reverse buddying and then taking out those that are Town but, on your side to make yourself look good.

Now, I'm having friends over tonight and probably won't get to post again until tomorrow.

[MiteyMouse]

Hohum...can we gat a vote count please.

[Herodotus]

if i flip chosen that places suspicion squarely on you

While I don't understand why you believe this, I also have to figure that if you wanted to actually support lynching me tomorrow depending on your flip, you would already have done so.

[Herodotus]

The only vote since post 534 is mine on Don.

So Zorblag and I are voting Don, Don is voting Dry, and you and Dry are not voting.

Speaking of that, I asked you a question in post 548. You don't have to answer, but please consider it. Post 559 contains an indirect answer, so I can be satisfied with that.

But I would like you to vote for someone before the day ends.

[Dry-fit]

I'd prefer a MiteMouse lynch at this time, but as that seems unlikely I'm okay with lynching don as an alternative.

[don_johnson]

well then. seems i am to be lynched. good luck.

[Zorblag]

don_johnson, if you do get lynched, Dry-fit was night killed and you both flipped townie, given what you know right now who would you suspect as scum and chosen?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[don_johnson]

don_johnson, if you do get lynched, Dry-fit was night killed and you both flipped townie, given what you know right now who would you suspect as scum and chosen?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

unvote, vote zorblag

you are getting more and more manipulative.

[Zorblag]

If you think so then so be it. I'm trying to do the same thing for you that I did for Special Ed; get more thoughts on the game from you to work with now while you're still around.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[don_johnson]

yes. and i am giving you my thoughts. i will lynch you or dry-fit. if i am to be lynched then you can reread my play and how those around me played and figure this out.

[Zorblag]

And now I've got that unambiguously which I think is useful. Any thoughts on the chosen you'd care to share?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[don_johnson]

no. not really. i think if you or herod is scum then town is going to lose as noone seems to want to stand up to you.

[Zorblag]

I'm not particularly sure that's true (you're clearly standing up to me and Dry-fit had me as his second guess for scum as recently as the last game day while MiteyMouse is bringing up Herodotus as scum options) but one of the reasons to be thinking about how the chosen dynamic works and who is likely to have the role is that even if someone does slip through to endgame looking as though they're town it doesn't help them in the end if they can't get the chosen lynched.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MiteyMouse]

Now...this is getting interesting!

Don...do you think you could be the Chosen at this point?

[don_johnson]

anything's possible. its hard to say because i have been looking at it from my pov. if i were scum with raivann i would have made archon the chosen because in every game i have played with him he has been an extremely easy lynch. hands down. afatchic, on the other hand, i have never lynched. zorblag, are you a replacement? i would not have made zorb the chosen. so unless he is a replacement...

i think if i were the chosen i would most likely have been lynched by now. afat is not so easy, but dj isn't hard to lynch. my deal is that i always convince people not to lynch me. but if you want to, its not difficult.

so no. i don't think i'm the chosen.

[Zorblag]

I was a replacement for nadroj15 after the exclusions for the chosen were made, yes. With search down it's harder to look up but nadroj15 had only played one or two games here.

The scum got to exclude 4 of 7 townies so they didn't get to choose the chosen directly, just narrow it down to 1 of 3.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh