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[scotmany12]

Ojanen, more process of elimination than anything. I no longer believe Yos to be scum (just think he's misguided). Throw in gut with that too. You haven't done anything to really convince me that you are town; less than stellar contribution from you.

[Goatrevolt]

Michel, I'll note that you aren't making sense for me in this, in a scummy way, because of the elaborateness of those scenarios you spinned and the inconsistency here. You have now said that
-you thought there were too relatively likely scenarios, in one of which Goat was scum and in both of which Ren was scum (although the one with both scum you earlier )
-you have said you do in no way mean to imply Goat is scum
-but because Goat seems definite town even to you now, your suspicions of Ren have lessened enormously.

So Ren scum doesn't imply Goat scum, but Goat town implies Ren town. That doesn't make sense.

I was wondering if anyone was going to point this out. I agree entirely here. He has constantly made sure to say "I still think Ren is scummy independent of goat" and "I'm not trying to throw suspicion on goat here" when he presents his arguments, but that's clearly shown to be insincere by how much his change in opinion of me affects his change in opinion on Ren.

----

I honestly want to call Ojanen town simply because her stances have pretty much reflected my opinions this entire game. She was the other person putting early pressure on Vollkan yesterday. Distancing, or real?

As for Michel/Yosarian, I think Yosarian has been more consistent and has played a much more pro-town game than Michel/Adel. My one caveat is that his defense of Adel has constantly felt over the top and it feels like he's stretching points or making points out to be stronger than they really are to call Adel town. That right there is the key. Does Yosarian honestly believe those arguments? If so, Michel is the scum. Is he faking those arguments? If so he's the scum.

[Yosarian2]

Goat: Why are you assuming that either me or michel must be scum?

[OhGodMyLife]

Ojanen is town. This I am sure of. Vollkan has had a pretty consistent low level of suspicion for a long time now, both here and in the accounting thread, so the only way he'd be the one making the kill with a tracker in the mix is if both of his scummates were more heavily suspected. Thus, Yos/Michel.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat: Why are you assuming that either me or michel must be scum?

I'm not assuming it in a false-dichotomy kind of way. I don't think one of you two

has

to be scum, but you are the most suspicious players left in the game (well, after Vollkan), and yet I don't think you fit as scum together. By far the most likely scenario is that one of you two is scum.

Ojanen is town. This I am sure of. Vollkan has had a pretty consistent low level of suspicion for a long time now, both here and in the accounting thread, so the only way he'd be the one making the kill with a tracker in the mix is if both of his scummates were more heavily suspected. Thus, Yos/Michel.

I'll have to go back and check, but I think at the time I tracked him nobody was suspicious of him at all.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'll have to go back and check, but I think at the time I tracked him nobody was suspicious of him at all.

Maybe I'm conflating my own low level suspicions with the town's, or what was being said in the accounting thread with the main thread. I'm pretty sure there was some rumblings of "There's something off with Vollkan" somewhere for a good long while.

Nonetheless, the point of "the other members of the scumteam must be more suspicious than Voll" still stands, and that still equal Yos/Michel.

[Yosarian2]

Nonetheless, the point of "the other members of the scumteam must be more suspicious than Voll" still stands, and that still equal Yos/Michel.

It's not just a matter of "more suspicious." The question is, who is more likely to be tracked then Voll, assuming the scum figured out (like everyone else did) that the me/goat group was likely to get the tracker role.

In other words, what we're looking for is two members of the scum team that either I, Goat, or both had expressed more suspicion on then we had expressed on Volken at some point before the kill yesterday.

[Goatrevolt]

Ojanen, Yosarian, Michel, Sens. The only post I see looking at myself in isolation where I give a list of suspicions prior to the kill on TDC is my isolation post 33. Those are the 3 players I list as equal/more suspicious to Vollkan.

Honestly, though, I find these arguments to be too coincidental. They fail for the same reasons Michel's math post about why Ren was scum doesn't work. It assumes far too much about what the scum were thinking and assumes too much about what basis they used to determine who made the kill.

Our assumption is that the scum sat around, first determined that Yosarian or myself are likely to be the tracker, then researched who would be the best to submit the kill based on their guesses of who we suspected. What's to say that's what happened over say another theory that they just took a look at public opinion, saw that Vollkan was being completely ignored, and decided he would be the best to submit it. Or maybe Vollkan just decided to make the kill without a huge amount of thought behind it.

[Korts]

Morning ends.

Death Scene

From: ether@genericads-hq.com
To: vollkan@genericads-mis.com; ckd@genericads-mis.com; goat@genericads-mis.com; iagree@genericads-mis.com
CC: mrevil@muahaha.com
Subject: Dear evil persons

Gentlepersons!

Thank you for ridding Generic Ads of incompetence and saving on severance pay, I appreciate all your generous help. I hope not to be working with you again, but morons are plentiful in this business. I apologize for the crushing display of crude democracy that you had to withstand, I was interested to see whether my precious employees could perform contrary to expectations. Ah well.

With ever so bleeding heart
Ether

OhGodMyLife, Account Executive, killed Day 3

Ren Hoek, Account Executive, killed Day 3

The Mafia win!

Congratulations, vollkan, curiouskarmadog, Goatrevolt and Yosarian2!

[Ren Hoek]

Goatrevolt!

WOW

Good job scum.

[Ren Hoek]

Nice bus, Yos & CKD.

[Korts]

Due to my impending V/LA, I will post actions and any additional setup information when I return.

What did you think of the game? Did you like the concept? Did you like the execution? Did the method of role distribution make it easier or harder on town or scum? Did the overlapping QT neighbourhoods influence the game in any big way? Were there any fuckups on my part? Was the 4:10 ratio too much in favour of the scum?

I used 4 scum instead of the three which would otherwise be balanced because of the way in which town got power roles--the fact that the town practically had a guarantee that at least 2 power roles would be present at endgame seemed to indicate that power should be given to scum as well. However, I didn't want to give scum any additional powers other than the ones granted by their roles and their group kill. I'm still not sure whether I made the right call.

[Ojanen]

I enjoyed the game.
Great job, scum. I was totally outplayed in this game.
Goat, wow!

[Yosarian2]

Thanks, ren. Yeah, the game was a lot of fun.

Korts: I don't think the game was unbalanced. It could quite easily have gone the other way.

The mechanism of role distribution could have gone either way. In this game, the scum were basically able to take control of it in broad daylight, but that was a very high risk option on our part.

[Goatrevolt]

Booom!

Fun game .

[Ojanen]

I liked the idea of the game. The execution of the modding seemed very good. The ability choosing seemed like a fun concept. On balance issues I have very little insight.
Thank you, Korts.

[Korts]

For reference, alignment was distributed completely randomly--perhaps I shouldn't have done this, it could've turned up far more in favour of scum or town. This particular distribution seemed pretty balanced, though.

Also, what did you think of the daily ability options? Were they too swingy, were the breaking strategies very obvious? I tried to give choices that were both interesting and appropriate to the game state--did I succeed?

[Budja]

Damn.

Very, very well played by Goat.

[Adel]

Hey, I can use the word fuck too. Ready?

Fuck Adel's fake ass meltdown. Oh my god, you've gotten lynched in games? This if fucking mafia. Since you're using your laudable skill as the basis for your sudden emotional tirade, I know that you know appeals to emotion are nothing more than worthless deflections.

Explosive emotional meltdowns do not impress coming from a player who strives to present himself as the most careful and logical player on the entire site. You can come down off of your pedestal, Professor Mafia, and join the rest of the mortal MafiaScum universe in getting lynched when you get caught.

If this outburst is real, fine. Replace out of this game right fucking now and let someone whose point of view isn't "Fuck Mafia" play and enjoy themselves. And get fucked while you're at it.

[vollkan]

Woo.

Ahem...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Really good game Korts. The setup was even more enjoyable than normal Deep South and I think the balance was right; had Goat not been canonised so early on, it could very easily have gone in town's favour.

[Adel]

Woo.

Ahem...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Really good game Korts. The setup was even more enjoyable than normal Deep South and I think the balance was right; had Goat not been canonised so early on, it could very easily have gone in town's favour.

[Adel]

What did you think of the game? Did you like the concept? Did you like the execution? Did the method of role distribution make it easier or harder on town or scum? Did the overlapping QT neighbourhoods influence the game in any big way? Were there any fuckups on my part? Was the 4:10 ratio too much in favour of the scum?

I liked the setup and concept, but I think the 4:10 balance was off. My feeling is that if you ran this a dozen times, the town would probably only win ~20% of the time.

Did the scum have their own QT?

Also, what did you think of the daily ability options? Were they too swingy, were the breaking strategies very obvious?

I don't think the breaking tactics were too obvious, and I don't think that the setup wasn't terribly swingy. There were a lot of checks and balances.

[vollkan]

Huh? My post has no text in it.

Adel copied it (thanks), but I'll try again:
Woo.

Ahem...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Really good game Korts. The setup was even more enjoyable than normal Deep South and I think the balance was right; had Goat not been canonised so early on, it could very easily have gone in town's favour.

[Adel]

Huh? My post has no text in it.

Adel copied it (thanks), but I'll try again:
Woo.

Ahem...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Really good game Korts. The setup was even more enjoyable than normal Deep South and I think the balance was right; had Goat not been canonised so early on, it could very easily have gone in town's favour.

delete the space between "Hubris" and "[/url]"

~~~

I've reread page 30 many times, the immediate pages leading up to page 30 several times, and the entire game up to that point a few times.
Each time it leaves me very frustrated.

I won't be playing mafia again any time soon.

[Adel]

also, sorry for replacing out. This must've been a fun scum team to be a part of.