Mini 816: Revenge of the Monkey(GAME OVER!)

[Sajin]

I agree. Probably no godfather.

But I suggest lynching arimorpherv first. It removes scums ability to win with one ML today and covers the fact that he could be scum with a survivor claim.


Before you vote me, read me in iso as if I were scum. Do you think I voted the way I did because of that?

[ryan2754]

I have some questions about the quicktopic's content you posted:

1.)He questioned me on why I claimed. However, the tone in which he did it really seems awkward. Like he's trying to not sound mad, but kind of is.

- would you say he was mad/agitated over how you claimed and what you said or about the time of the claim?
- did the claim come before or after he asked you about your win condition? (important question)

- In that exact QT post, he starts by answering the question I asked of him on why he asked in thread rather than out of thread in QT. He then just adds "Why did you claim?" I just feel this was a way to make it fairly non-chalant while actually being slightly upset. IIRC, in the thread in post 473 he responds to my claim. He says of it: "I am not sure what good claiming now did, but sure. Its better than me dieing tonight and have ryan claim town mason and skate free if he is scum. But I have a town read on ryan based on our QT."
- After. He actually asked about my win condition at the very beginning of the QT (N0/D1). I claimed much later, obviously.

2.)He asked me what my win condition was, and what my role PM generally said, and then just agreed with me. I questioned him on why he asked what mine said and he was trying to determine my alignment. I said he was unconfirmed, and thus can't necessarily take anyone's word for it. He replies saying he was trying to determine if I knew about dayspeaking, to see if there were any inconsistencies in our PMs.

- dayspeaking? could you clarify?

- We weren't sure whether we could dayspeak or not, as most masons can only talk during night (from my own experience). He asked me if we could dayspeak. I replied I did not know. Mod didn't say either way. I then asked him why he asked me, and he replied that he was trying to determine my alignment, possibly based on if I KNEW I could dayspeak. He then asked the mod and said we could.

3.) He says "I was the first vote on devestation...shrug" Don't exactly know what that means.

- did he elaborate on this?
- or come back on his statement on a later moment?

- No. It didn't really catch my attention at first.
- No.

4.)He later says "Should I die please post that I thought that StrangerCoug and dramonic are Devestations scum partners."

- exact time? like N2 or N3?

- 08-05-2009, which means it was approximately the end of D2, after Konowa CC'd cop.

5.) I later asked why he asked me why I thought dramonic was suspicious in game, rather than in the QT, and he said "to not make our talking so obvious..." Looking back, this definitely comes out weird. Our talking? Are you saying people would notice that we aren't referencing each other and assume we are talking outside of the actual thread? I just don't understand this.

- would you compare it to my and kitty's fear of being found buddying/not enough distancing in our previous game?

- I don't think it compares. You and Kitty were both scum, so the buddying/not distancing stuff is a legitimate fear. You two were making sure that you weren't buddying at all, and were remaining somewhat distant. Seems sajin in doing the opposite, trying to decrease the distance between me and him.

It should be noted that ryan hardly ever used our QT at night. Hardly posted anything.

This argument is completely WIFOM. We were allowed to dayspeak. Why, then, concentrate my posts in the QT during the night? You weren't such a hot talker yourself.

3- This was in response to dramonic attacking me.

So what would being the first vote on Dev have to do with Dramonic attacking you?

[animorpherv1]

I agree. Probably no godfather.

But I suggest lynching arimorpherv first. It removes scums ability to win with one ML today and covers the fact that he could be scum with a survivor claim.

Before you vote me, read me in iso as if I were scum. Do you think I voted the way I did because of that?

Well, at least he's getting things...

>< Of course. My luck. But oh well, if you seriously think it, of course I'll lose, as I won't be completing my win condition, of staying alive at endgame. Also, I've got one trick up my sleeve for that one ML situation. Also, read how MME thinks I actually am survivor due to Regfan AND Pim getting replaced.

dramonic could have been bussing, we know that. I'm not saying your 100% scum. For all I know, it could be anyone but me. Of course, that's what everyone will say.

Also, like MME, I think ryan is actually townnow. Due to him looking at several possibilites. In my opinion, tunnelling = more likley scum.

[Sajin]

Also- There is only one person who knew for sure there was no doctor and that is eek being the only unclaimed. Mafia has been fighting our cop as if there was a doctor every night. Except last night.

[My Milked Eek]

- In that exact QT post, he starts by answering the question I asked of him on why he asked in thread rather than out of thread in QT. He then just adds "Why did you claim?" I just feel this was a way to make it fairly non-chalant while actually being slightly upset. IIRC, in the thread in post 473 he responds to my claim. He says of it: "I am not sure what good claiming now did, but sure. Its better than me dieing tonight and have ryan claim town mason and skate free if he is scum. But I have a town read on ryan based on our QT."

Am I wrong in assuming that you're getting a less-than-town vibe from Sajin?

- After. He actually asked about my win condition at the very beginning of the QT (N0/D1). I claimed much later, obviously.

Good. Did he say it looked like his? (yet another important question)(yes, I'm going somewhere with this, or I hope to)

- 08-05-2009, which means it was approximately the end of D2, after Konowa CC'd cop.

Thus, after it was very obvious dev was scum.

- I don't think it compares. You and Kitty were both scum, so the buddying/not distancing stuff is a legitimate fear. You two were making sure that you weren't buddying at all, and were remaining somewhat distant. Seems sajin in doing the opposite, trying to decrease the distance between me and him.

Ah, yes, obviously. I'm not too familiar with mason/neighbor play, but I don't think it's optimal if you try to buddy to your partner. Especially when you're neighbors.

3- This was in response to dramonic attacking me.

So what would being the first vote on Dev have to do with Dramonic attacking you?

Can you place this for us? Is it pre-dev lynch or after?

Also- There is only one person who knew for sure there was no doctor and that is eek being the only unclaimed. Mafia has been fighting our cop as if there was a doctor every night. Except last night.

Did you want me to claim vanilla D3? That would have been counterproductive. I even considered, when necessary, to claim/imply doc in order to draw the nightkill.

Konowa being nightkilled means the scum is getting desperate as they risked a doc protect. I'd need to reread his posts to check what he said D3.

[Sajin]

Did I say I wanted you to claim vanilla? No.

I am saying that mafia had been acting all game like there was a doctor. Yet they did not last night. Your the only one who knew there was no doctor.

Why would you assume so much about the nightkill?

[My Milked Eek]

"So much?"

I think it's fair to assume I was the only one who knew there isn't a doc. From my perspective the scum didn't know if there was a doc or not, so yes, killing konowa (or attempting to) is a gamble the scum took in my books. Is that assuming too much? I don't think so.


"I am saying that mafia had been acting all game like there was a doctor."

That's what I meant with desperate, obviously.


Why did he nightkill konowa then?

I can see a few reasons:
-

he didn't want to get investigated

Obviously. This implies rbt being town.

-

he didn't want more confirmed townies

Obvious. This implies rbt being town as well.

-

he didn't want him to confirm his sanity

Not so obvious and not so relevant imo. Konowa only got one result, so technically his sanity is still unknown. This implies rbt being scum.


In my opinion, the reason he gambled by killing konowa is number 1 and possibly number 2. If I recall correctly, Konowa mentioned looking into investigating Sajin or Ryan.
(RBT was already looked into, he believed ani to be a survivor iirc and I don't know what he thought about me (aside from a doc hunch))
Even if he suspected me, it would have been a pool of 3 suspects. Let's see what happens then:

* If he hit an innocent on ryan or you, scum would have lost killing me
* A guilty was game over immediately
* And an innocent on me while killing me was a status quo

Doesn't matter, scum would have lost if they kept him around. So they took a chance and tried to kill konowa, not knowing if there was a doc or not.

Only shot the scum has to try and turn this game is by pushing doubt on ani's claim and subsequently pushing for his lynch in order to push/hope for a ML in LyLo and/or to push doubt onto RBT by either questioning konowa's sanity or by playing the godfather card.


Sure, reply and call it suggestive and/or WIFOM, that's just how I roll.

I was going to wait for ryan's answers to my previous post, but when writing the above, it became rather clear to me.

Vote: Sajin

[Sajin]

Well town is going to lose this and I completely blame the mod on the investigation error.

Regardless the town play is to lynch claimed scum today.

vote amimorpherv1

[My Milked Eek]

Well town is going to lose this and I completely blame the mod on the investigation error.

Explain this?

I'm not sure if I'm following.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, I don't think the error has anything to do with the decisions the players are taking, and the game is hardly over.

[Sajin]

Well town is going to lose this and I completely blame the mod on the investigation error.

Explain this?

I'm not sure if I'm following.

If I am lynched and there is scum other than the survivor they joint for victory. Therefore assuming you have any inkling that the survivor claim could be the last mafia member, you should be voting him first. If you need to vote me the following day, fine. But your unwillingness to vote the neutral screams scum to me.

[My Milked Eek]

If I am lynched and there is scum other than the survivor they joint for victory. Therefore assuming you have any inkling that the survivor claim could be the last mafia member, you should be voting him first. If you need to vote me the following day, fine. But your unwillingness to vote the neutral screams scum to me.

Is this true? I'm just asking because I haven't really encountered a survivor, not in my play record nor in my reading record. If it is, why would scum think about claiming survivor?

And what is so scum about voting who you believe to be the final scum instead of a neutral?

[Sajin]

Because if your scum, then you can joint with the survivor tomorrow. The survivor votes nl then you vote nl.

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Ani

If you're telling the truth, you'll only hurt us if we mislynch today.

If you're lying, then we don't have to worry about another mislynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count
With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch

Animorpherv1(2) - Sajin, Riceballtail
Sajin(1) - My Milked Eek

[My Milked Eek]

I'd like to wait on ryan to answer before voting/lynching/hammering ani.

[Sajin]

@eek- Thats fine but I must wonder-What is your motivation for doing so? To make sure he votes your way tomorrow?

RBT- Please provide observations on all. Thanks.

[My Milked Eek]

No, to hear the answers to the questions I asked a few posts ago. (#604)

[Riceballtail]

Ani - Isn't going to help the town as long as he's alive.

MME - Neutral, but probably a good choice for tomorrow if Ani isn't scum.

Ryan - Also a likely choice for tomorrow if Ani isn't scum.

Sajin - Most likely town to me right now.

[Sajin]

Why did the scum not kill me? I am interested in the post game of this.

You'll know post-game :3

Go mafia

What really sucks is that even though I was right on target the first 2 nights, I think I was left alive because I was neighbors with ryan.

Eek I would like you to read the above quotations and comment on them. Ryan as well. Thank you.

[My Milked Eek]

I think that the reason you or ryan are still alive is rather simple.

One of you is scum.

By killing off one of the neighbours, you're really making the other look suspicious. If one neighbour flips town, then due to the nature of the role the other would be incriminated.

If you're both town, I think the scum would have killed one of you already.

[Sajin]

So why is it me over him then?

Do you think its me because I fingered you at several points?

[animorpherv1]

Ani - Isn't going to help the town as long as he's alive.

Oh, come on. I'm willing to help town. It's not automatically "he's survivor he's going to joint with mafia tomorrow." It should be "Oh he's survivor so he can use a trick or two to get the mafia."

Also, now that I've said that, if I don't get lynched, there's a high probability of me dieing tonight, if scum is reasonably smart.

[animorpherv1]

I think that the reason you or ryan are still alive is rather simple.

One of you is scum.

By killing off one of the neighbours, you're really making the other look suspicious. If one neighbour flips town, then due to the nature of the role the other would be incriminated.

If you're both town, I think the scum would have killed one of you already.

Sorry for the double post, as I didn't go down the full page.

MME is pulling a good point here. WHAT mafia/mason kills their partner?! They'd (or I would, at least) keep them alive, to help me get the final lynch.

[animorpherv1]

vote:Sajin

Should be simple, as is we lynch one. If he's town, we lynch the other one. I PROMISE I WILL STICK TO MY WORD. I've never purposely broken a promise, ever.