Talilan wrote:I am not sure if I am allowed to quote from the rules post, so I will avoid doing so for the time being, but:
Gaspar (115) wrote:That said, I see nothing to indicate that any individual player has any knowledge or preference for one choice over any other choice during Scene One
It explicitly states in the on camera rules that the advocate gets information to help make the decision. Ergo, the first scene is not random at all. Did you just miss this or is there another reason you think the scene is still entirely random?
I misinterpreted an aspect of the scenes. I thought that when Scene Three said each advocate gets "partial information," that implied that the advocates in the other scenes did not get information.
Talilan wrote:Either way I don't understand your point about the second and onwards scenes being
not
random, or at least
less
random than the first. The difference is that the advocates are chosen by scum, rather than randomly. Just because it has a scum-WIFOM filter applied to it wouldn't somehow render it non-random if it was already random to begin with.
I'm not really sure what your last sentence means, but you answered your own question. On Scene One, the Adovcates were chosen completely at random. From Scene Two onwards, the Adovcates are chosen by a scumgroup. Unless the scums are to choose Advocates randomly (an assumption we cannot make), then Scenes Two and beyond would be inherently less random. I'm not really sure how you're not understanding this.
Talilan wrote:Note that the choice isn't "to follow one or another advocate", that's only for the first scene. It doesn't mean that one advocate is town and another is scum, it means that one is the right advocate to follow; presumably independently of their alignment. Note in subsequent scenes the choices aren't tied to specific advocates, and e.g. in Scene 2 there are 3 choices and only one advocate.
I'm well aware that each advocate could be Scum or Town, that their alignment is independent of each other, and that there is one Good choice and one Bad choice regardless of alignment. The fact that the Advocates were random, and that the Good/Bad nature of each choice is independent of their alignment makes the first Decision that much more random.
Lalilian wrote:Gaspar (116) wrote:I haven't seen a single person actually make a case as to why On-Camera decisions would be more important than killing scumbags, yet I've had three people question or disagree with me on this point. I would LOVE to see some counterpoints if you folks have them.
Well for example the result of the worst outcome in a scene might mean the scum get 5 nightkills that night rather than 1, or 0. We just don't know what form they're going to take. I don't understand why you'd assume that the on-camera action would somehow be irrelevant when it looks like it's designed to be the centrepiece of the game. The players on-camera are a minority whose every move is going to be under particular scrutiny and who can't scrutinise most of the other players. Furthermore there are several devices to relay information to them, albeit subtly. Why would you think the players with limited communication, who everyone can see, would be less rather than of equal or greater importance than the flock of people off-stage?
This is ridiculous. You play to win the game. That is your top priority. Period. Saying "we should focus on the on-camera decisions, because we want to avoid the Town's worst possible Endgame scenario" is complete and utter bullshit. I've already said why the people off-stage are more important, and I'm going to sit here repeating this point until I can bludgeon it into your head.
The people off-stage are the ones who lynch (the scums, ideally), and that gives us the best shot at winning the game.
You sit here arguing that we need to avoid making a streak of bad decisions to avoid the town's worst-case scenario. But even if we make every Good decision possible, if we continually mislynch in here, we'll end up in the worst case scenario anyway.
Furthermore, I don't think I ever stated or implied that on-camera decisions are completely irrelevant. I said that we don't know the outcome of said decisions, and that they can be rendered irrelevant
if
we can find and lynch the scums (or if the scums get us to mislynch down to 5 town). I even stated that the On-Camera decisions are a useful backup plan, but I maintain that our focus should be on THIS thread, working to find and lynch the scums here and now, just as we would in any game which took place in a single game thread.
.....aaand it just occurred to me that you can't respond to this in real-time, because you're On-Camera. Meh.
