Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over

[jasonT1981]

I understand your thought process perfectly fine. I'm telling you, however, that the information is crucial in assessing both of your claims and you hiding it is hurting the town more than it is benefiting.

I asked you to explain how it benefits the town once before ... I am asking you once again to explain as all you have said it is crucial in accessing our claims.

If I can protect the cop or not has nothing to do with accessing our claims. That is a totally separate issue I believe.

now one more time...

how does it benefit the town to basically tell scum who they can or can not try to night kill. And how can it help assess our claims

I am not going to give up vital information for scum to use just because you say it is beneficial without any real reasoning.

[Locke Lamora]

If you can't get it from what he's told you then I'm not sure you'll get it at all. I think it's pretty obvious what it means for our claims.

[VP Baltar]

I asked you to explain how it benefits the town once before ... I am asking you once again to explain as all you have said it is crucial in accessing our claims.

Given current site meta, I think it would be very highly unlikely that a mod would create a game with a cop and a doc where the doc can protect the cop. It is a very big no-no in a mini because the cop would only have to claim and could be protected throughout the game by the hidden doc. It basically makes it impossible for the scum to win because by the time they find and kill the doc, the cop would have likely either found them or cleared enough innocents that it would be very difficult for the scum to hide.

Unless your PM says something specific about not being able to protect cops or not being able to protect the same person on consecutive nights, I think it is highly likely that Reckoner is lying and I would like to lynch him today. Obviously I didn't want to divulge my thoughts immediately because, if you are scum, it gives you an easy opportunity to alter your response to my question accordingly.

[jasonT1981]

Given current site meta, I think it would be very highly unlikely that a mod would create a game with a cop and a doc where the doc can protect the cop. It is a very big no-no in a mini because the cop would only have to claim and could be protected throughout the game by the hidden doc. I

t basically makes it impossible for the scum to win because by the time they find and kill the doc, the cop would have likely either found them or cleared enough innocents that it would be very difficult for the scum to hide.

Unless your PM says something specific about not being able to protect cops or not being able to protect the same person on consecutive nights, I think it is highly likely that Reckoner is lying and I would like to lynch him today. Obviously I didn't want to divulge my thoughts immediately because, if you are scum, it gives you an easy opportunity to alter your response to my question accordingly.

so your concerned about scum not being able to win?

Brilliant!!!

Your scenario is basically about a hidden doctor... I am not hidden any more.

[Locke Lamora]

Given current site meta, I think it would be very highly unlikely that a mod would create a game with a cop and a doc where the doc can protect the cop. It is a very big no-no in a mini because the cop would only have to claim and could be protected throughout the game by the hidden doc. It basically makes it impossible for the scum to win because by the time they find and kill the doc, the cop would have likely either found them or cleared enough innocents that it would be very difficult for the scum to hide.

Unless your PM says something specific about not being able to protect cops or not being able to protect the same person on consecutive nights, I think it is highly likely that Reckoner is lying and I would like to lynch him today.

Obviously I didn't want to divulge my thoughts immediately because, if you are scum, it gives you an easy opportunity to alter your response to my question accordingly.

I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse or really don't get this. It's virtually pointless to ask you now anyway, but there it is.

[jasonT1981]

I will be answering NO more questions about what I an or can not do, and who I can or cant protect.

If you are still unhappy and think I am scummy... then hammer me

[Porochaz]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9854 - Door Mafia
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9750 - Abandoned Newbie Game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8941 - Batman Mafia
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8471 - Open Game (2 of 4)

[jasonT1981]

I am checking out for the evening....

Locke and VP are seemingly very anxious to know as to what I can or cant do and who I cant or can protect...

any reason why they would be if they where town?

[VP Baltar]

I'm flabergasted that anyone could be that incapable of understanding simple logic. Congrats, you win the award for MS biggest VI.


To everyone else, do you think one of reckoner and jason is lying given their claims? I personally think jason is utterly dense and reckoner is lying through his teeth.

[ZONEACE]

@zone-what are your feelings on the dust up I had with emptyger?

I found myself agreeing that emp was merely sniping at arguments from the sideline, which was unhelpful and came across and participating without taking a side.

[ZONEACE]

I'm flabergasted that anyone could be that incapable of understanding simple logic. Congrats, you win the award for MS biggest VI.


To everyone else, do you think one of reckoner and jason is lying given their claims? I personally think jason is utterly dense and reckoner is lying through his teeth.

I don't believe either of them. but find it unlikely they are in the same group.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes, Jason, they are making sense. Your dismissal of VP Baltar for being concerned about the scum not being able to win isn't fair - he's referring to the fact that the mod is obliged to make a game in which both the mafia and the town have as similar as possible a chance to win, so if he thinks an element of your claim could contradict that guiding principle, then it's a legitimate concern as to the validity of your claim.

Personally, I can see where you're coming from, VP, but I'm not sure the meta is so widespread that it would be worth lynching our claimed cop D1 over it. Certainly, I don't think we can rule out a doc that can protect a cop in this game.

[Locke Lamora]

I really can't believe you're trying to make us both look scummy as well as completely failing to get it. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. I'm inclined to believe Jason on account of sheer idiocy, I feel like scum would be smarter than this. What I can't decide is if it's worth lynching Reckoner on that basis.

[ChannelDelibird]

At the risk of sounding wishy-washy, I'm really torn on both of them. Both have been genuinely scummy, IMO. Jason's claim is probably a little more believable (

unvote

by the way, should have done so earlier), as I've said... I think I would rather look elsewhere altogether, but I don't know where to start. I'll take a gander at other options ASAP.

[jasonT1981]

Before I go... Lynching Reckoner (claimed and uncountered cop) who hypo flips cop leaves it open for scum to NK me (claimed and uncountered doc) and town loses both Cop and Doc before day 2.

This is why we can not lynch Reckoner.

A Reckoner Lynch right now really benefits scum. It gives the scum a clear path to win providing he is telling the truth about his claim... and uncountered we have no reason not to believe it. or take it at face value,

OK Now I am out

[VP Baltar]

OK, I looked over the mod's Batman and Doors games, as those would be the most applicable to our situation.

Batman had a Doc and no cop in it, while also including roles that are dependant upon good choices as town to be successful (busdriver).

Doors did have a cop and a doc, but the odds of the town getting both at the same time were slim from what I saw while I was skimming.

From this, I'm pretty well inclined to believe that Porochaz is more than competant enough to know that a doc + cop combination is seriously broken.

[Locke Lamora]

I really don't like how Reckoner tried to push suspicion back onto Jason by trying to claim Richard wasn't a doctor; having said that, it shouldn't make a difference to giving him the benefit of the doubt tonight because he was already very scummy. Not lynching someone as scummy as he's been is frustrating but with Jason taking the position he is, the best thing to do is lynch neither and look elsewhere, then see how things play out with both of them.

Unvote

, I will be re-reading and working out where my vote should go as quickly as possible.

[Locke Lamora]

VP: so you're leaning towards the Reckoner lynch? Without Jason confirming or denying the particulars of his role, is a lynch based on the cop-doc argument really a good idea?

[VP Baltar]

Before I go... Lynching Reckoner (claimed and uncountered cop) who hypo flips cop leaves it open for scum to NK me (claimed and uncountered doc) and town loses both Cop and Doc before day 2.

wowie, this is an amazing deduction!

VP: so you're leaning towards the Reckoner lynch? Without Jason confirming or denying the particulars of his role, is a lynch based on the cop-doc argument really a good idea?

It's risky, but I'm not uncomfortable with it. The odds are quite high that one of them is lying, plus Reckoner's play reeks of scum. Apart from all my points before, he was wanted to be on pretty much any wagon that looks like it has a chance and was very quick to build a contrived bunch of reasons why he didn't believe jason could be telling the truth.

While jason is no doubt being majorly anti-town, there is an earnest noobishness about him, which I definitely do not get from Reckoner.

If the town really has no guts to follow through on a reckoner lynch, I'll still go with an emptyger lynch, but that didn't seem to get much support when I proposed it.

[Locke Lamora]

You know what, we're too close to the deadline to go in a new direction. Going through what we did with Reckoner and Jason for another person this close to the deadline could be just as risky, if not more so, than lynching a claimed power role.

Vote: Reckoner

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Reaching on the Jason case was the last straw, I'm willing to take the gamble given how scummy Reckoner has been.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote Reckoner

I think I would rather look elsewhere altogether, but I don't know where to start. I'll take a gander at other options ASAP.

I'm interested to hear what you find.

[jasonT1981]

Im back... So if Reckoner flips town cop... does that mean I am lying in my town doctor claim? Based on your theory we cant have a cop/doc together

[VP Baltar]

If reckoner flips scum will you make me blueberry pancakes?

[jasonT1981]

Sure, if you answer my question about if he flips town cop, where does that leaves my claim? does that mean I am scum as the game would be unbalanced as you say.

the cop/doc role I think works in a mini game if the scum has a role blocker and hit-man combo.

And yes I speculated earlier though about scum not having a RB and this is why they need to know what I can and cant do.

I can't support a Reckoner lynch today, sorry I don't think it is Pro-town to lynch a uncountered claimed cop, this is the very same reason I unvoted when he claimed.... in fact it would be very opportunistic for scum to push for this I feel.

[Locke Lamora]

So tell us, Jason, what do you think we should do? We're less than 24 hours from the deadline, we shouldn't lynch you because you've claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch Reckoner because he's claimed cop. Any bright ideas?