Open 164 - Bird 7P (Over) before 836

[hiphop]

/confirm

[hiphop]

vote:Brothernature

for making the first vote.

[hiphop]

Far_Cry and zwetschenwasser- What do you plan to gain by your votes? He hasn’t confirmed yet, so I doubt he even knew the game was up. I don’t see any reason for your vote. And you can’t say your votes are random, because your votes aren't.

[hiphop]

In case you don't know random votes do not have "real" reasons. Random votes should not have real reasons, yours do.

[hiphop]

In case you don't know random votes do not have "real" reasons. Random votes should not have real reasons, yours do.

You really think that confirmations constitute a "real reason"? This is a newbie game.

Yes I do think that. It's my opinion. Imo when two people vote for the same reason, the votes aren't random.

Random votes are designed to get the game going; rather than idly sitting around like you are, I try to move on people.

It's called the Random Voting Stage for a reason hiphop....

definition of the rvs found on wiki rvs

RVS: Random Voting Stage. Most Mafia games start with a phase wherein people vote for silly reasons, until someone slips up or makes a legitimate accusation.

Your votes were not for silly reasons therefore the rvs is over.

Whoa, whoa. We're getting suspicious when the game hasn't even officially started????? This is ridiculous. We are random voting. I dont know how people can find scum so early.

Are you telling me that the rvs is not part of the game? If you think that why do you even random vote? Rvs is part of the game. The game has started.

[hiphop]

Vote: Xehdat

for not confirming.

unvote vote Xehdat

..... waiting for him to confirm.

Look at these posts, I can see how zwetschenwasser vote may be random, but Far_Cry is not. His post is like he copied zwetschenwasser and made a few changes, so that the words are not exactly the same. Having the same vote for different reasons could be random, but having the same vote for the same reason, is not random.

Random votes are designed to get the game going; rather than idly sitting around like you are, I try to move on people.

Don’t let me stop you, I was just pointing out non-random votes.

[hiphop]

My intentions were not that the posts were scumtells, I wanted to see the reactions.

Lets the rvs continue.

vote:hohum

for having sentences that don't stop.

[hiphop]

@Hiphop: At what time does it become acceptable for people to make "non-random votes"?

Whenever you feel like. You already did, so I don't know why you are asking that question.

The issue is not with changing your vote, the issue is primarily with changing your vote to someone who already has one in the RVS stage.

I don't understand why you are making such a big fuss over two votes. If everybody voted once doing the rvs, than nobody could change their votes without voting for someone who already has a vote. Three votes in the rvs is scummy not two.

[hiphop]

porkchop how does my recent post ring false? I am not following you. Explain.

[hiphop]

The difference is the second vote of the votes that I made a fuss about was not random(which the author of that vote say it was), because they have the same reasoning. These votes that ogm refers to are random. As I explained before it would be impossible if everybody random voted once for someone to change their vote and make another random vote without voting someone who already has two votes. So two votes in the rvs is not a big deal for me.

I was not complaining that they made two votes for the same person, but that one of the votes was not random.

I realize that far-cry unvoted and then revoted the same person. To it was like the first time the reason was random and he had to unvote and revote for a non-random reason in order to show that he had a "real' reason to vote.

[hiphop]

So here he thinks non-random votes are something to complain about.

I don’t think that non-random votes are something to complain about, but when someone calls clearly a non-random vote a random vote. There we have a problem. For there is the lie. A lie will always be anti-town.

hiphop, I'm starting to find you scummy for putting so much focus on something inherently not scummy.

There we have a another problem. You see, I was willing to move on, but PorkchopExpress insist to question my actions. So I have to defend myself. I can’t let it slide, for than I would be agreeing with him and say that I am definitely scummy.

Dude. It was the first page. During the RVS. He was messing around. I don't know why your chasing after little bitty things like this. So like I told OGM, it's not really suspicious, so drop it and focus on finding some real evidence.

I was bored. I was seriously waiting for the game to start. Now seriously, start hunting scum, and stop looking at some ridiculously stupid things.

These two quotes are two peas in a pod. Buddying already? Hmm. You see I am creating activity, that is the first sign to show someone is scumhunting. You two on the other hand seem to want the activity to stop. Strange. Anti-town? Yes. Why don’t you two show some signs of scum hunting and maybe I can see how it is done in your opinion. I like activity otherwise I would be as bored as you, Far_Cry, were in the RVS. I certainly am not going to be like you two.

@ Far_Cry Seriously, why do you keep on saying you wanted the game to start. The game was started. The Rvs is part of the game. I could of made my first post by asking questions instead of making a random vote. I could of asked is lurking scummy? Is anti-town scummy? And let you guys answered my questions, but than there probably would of never been an RVS. The Rvs is part of the game, so stop saying it isn’t.

[hiphop]

hiphop, do you admit that you were wrong?

No, I don't think I was wrong. I made something out of nothing and it worked. I am giving Hohum a chance to do what he is trying to do. That is analyze what people said and digest it.

YOU are trying to play safe, yet, all u ar doin is attracting attention thus far. STOP!!!! Take it easy, and simple.

I am not trying to play it safe. I love the attention. It makes the game more fun. People only have the right to be suspicious of me, but it is not about the individuals, it is what the town thinks.

When you say things like, "I was waiting for the game to start," refering to the rvs what do you really think it means?

thinking that everyone is stupid and only u ar smart.

Wait, what? There are people like Hohum and zwetschenwasser who I will never be smarter than, but that doesn't stop me from posting.

I just don't want you being led astray by things that aren't suspicious.

It isn't the fact that is suspicious, but the reactions people make concerning that fact.

[hiphop]

I don't like your infrequent, 1-3 sentence posts. And it's not my fault that I'm naturally aggressive, if that's what you meant by "flamy"

You are aggressive? How?

@Far_Cry- It would help if you stop contradicting yourself. I’ll show you.
Post 82

I was bored. I was seriously waiting for the game to start.

referring to the RVS vote.
Post 86

I NEVER said that RVS is not part of the game.

How can something be part of a game if the game hasn’t started?
Also in post 86

thinking that everyone is stupid and only u ar smart.

I don’t even know how he knows what I am thinking. I defend myself, being I don’t think I am smarted than everybody else and Far_Cry answers with this:

So what are you saying, someone shouldn't post because there are people smarter than them??

Did I say this? No. You were referring to me thinking I was smarter than everybody.

IT WORKED? Now you're trying to play your ignorance off as some kind of gambit? Give me a break.

Unvote; Vote: hiphop

It wasn’t a gambit then, but it is now. All my posts are gambits if they work. Whatever creates activity is fine with me.

[hiphop]

Anyways, I this argument is completely pointless. You are focusing on unimportant stuff.

FoS hiphop

Why are you arguing with me then?

be careful about lurker hunts in such a small setup. Everyone is minimally posting, and there's a good reason for some people to keep a low profile. We can't afford mislynches in a 7P setup.

I am not minimally posting. Only you and OGM are minimally posting. It is harder to tell alignment if one is only minimally posting. So people have a right to suspect you more.

A gambit implies planning and foreknowledge.

Maybe to you, but not to me.

[hiphop]

obviously you don't know what a gambit is. A Gambit is any action made to further a player's agenda. It requires that you plan to further your agenda by saying or doing a certain thing.

I didn’t know what a gambit was and had to look it up and then thought I knew what a gambit was.

You are a fool, and most likely scum.

So because I am a fool, then I am scum. Interesting perspective.

I think hiphop has played the newbie card too long to be simply newbtown.

When did I play the newbie card?

Wait, what? There are people like Hohum and zwetschenwasser who I will never be smarter than, but that doesn't stop me from posting.

So what you are saying is despite the fact that zwet and hohum are smarter than you, that dosen't stop you from posting. But what does how smart someone is relate to whether you should post or not??? I dont understand.

Hiphop, I'd like to hear your reply to this. I don't see how you could think that how smart a person is prevents, or even relates to, another persons posting. Not voting you right now, as that would put you at L-1, but,

FoS: Hiphop

.

I wasn’t going to answer this because he said the argument was pointless.

The whole thing is misrepresentation. First he told me to stop acting like I was smarter than everybody else, which I wasn’t. To this I got the impression that he wanted me to post less in my posts. I came back with that post, meaning I know I am not smarter than everybody else, but will still post the same.

Is that FOS supposed to show that you are following the rest of the BW?

[hiphop]

hiphop, you've been trying to convince us that you're completely ignorant of basic mafia terms all game long. That's the newbie card in my book.

What other terms have I been ignorant of? I never came across the word gambit before in the other games.

I looked gambit up on google. It says it means to sacrifice one's pieces in order to gain an advantage. I sacrificed my innocence for the sake of activity. That is what I thought gambit meant.

Wait, what? There are people like Hohum and zwetschenwasser who I will never be smarter than, but that doesn't stop me from posting.

So what you are saying is despite the fact that zwet and hohum are smarter than you, that doesn't stop you from posting. But what does how smart someone is relate to whether you should post or not???

I don’t understand.

Answer my question u idiot. I would like to know the answer to that.

By the way, do u think u are town or scum?

Two part question referring to bold. "So what are you saying" is a question. I was explaining what I was saying. I thought the first part explained the second. It doesn't matter how smart someone is for posting. Everybody will have their own opinion, whether they are ignorant or bright. I hope that answers your question. If not please explain your question.

For your second question-town. Who wouldn't say that?

[hiphop]

done with the rvs

unvote:

However, the point that porkchop makes about about his thoughts on random voting changing to suit him is a much stronger point and somethign I do think is actually scummy.

Can you give me a post number?

Post 76

it's not really suspicious, so drop it and focus on finding some real evidence.

Post 126

There's not much major scumhunting to be down in the early pages of a game, so rather than lurk until like page 8, like hohum, I prefer to do something.

Quotes contradict each other. What changed?

By the way I prefer for you to be aggressive. You should not change the way you playstyle, because of, what you say are role changes. You should play the same when you are both. Since you say when you were scum you played aggressively and now I say you are not playing aggressive, I believe you are scum changing the way you are playing in order to not draw suspicion.

fos: brothernature

I don’t want to put you at L-1 yet.

However, your case on brothernature is better than my case.

Unvote; Vote: Brothernature

Do you have any reasons for this vote, or were they all gleaned from Baltar?

[hiphop]

Can you give me a post number?

Here

I already explained that, and I don't want to bring up old arguments for something that has already been explained. If you have a different question, please ask.

[hiphop]

I wasn't asking you a question about it. I said it was a good point that Porkchop made and iirc your response underwhelmed me.

But you were bringing the point up. Why?

Hard to work out who the scum are, if players don't feel the need to post.

agreed.

@brothernature if there is no evidence how can one make a case, let alone convince others their point is right? If one doesn’t create activity, there is even less.

Fact- there are no real facts until day two when the PRs come out. Otherwise it is all interaction.

[hiphop]

Also, read the context of when I first mentioned it. Zwet had asked me about the case on you. I gave my general feelings on what were the good and bad points made against you. Why are you so worried about me bringing it up?

I was not worried. I was wondering if you were going to make a case from it, if so I would of defended myself and brought up old arguments. I did not want to cover what has been already covered. I didn't realize you were answering a question, even though it was blatantly obvious.

[hiphop]

It was the RVS. Not much to go on in the first 3 pages. If I have to nitpick to scumhunt, I will, which is what I did. Instead of acting like retarded like zwet and asking stupid questions like hiphop, I did something that moved the discussion forward.

I asked stupid questions? How so? I thought Zwet said I gave stupid answers. The only reason I gave stupid answers because I dislike people who don't answer questions, even if they are stupid questions.

Either way, there is plenty on him. Hohum is begging for a lurker lynch though. I hate to do it, but in a 7 player game, lurking is a serious sin.

I am torn both ways. He hasn’t given any scumtells, yet he lurks. I don’t want to attack someone who hasn’t given scumtells. I would rather attack scum.

[hiphop]

Lynching a lurker is always hard to do, because they don't post anything for anyone to get a read on them.

I say we deal with lurkers the second day. If he is still lurking by then, we can lynch him then. We still have five days before we need to decide anyways. There is one lurker, yet two scum. So that must mean there is at least one scum active. Let's find scum.

[hiphop]

Wouldn't it be better to try and use the information we have Day 2, rather than policy lynch a lurker?

Sure, it would be better to lynch someone based on better info. What do you propose we do about the lurker?

[hiphop]

he's being completely noncommittal. He's showing hesitancy to provide us with a clear, unambiguous suspicion list.

How can he do this? Everybody has a chance to be scum at this point, so how can he narrow it down.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

[hiphop]

@zwet You say BN is non-committal, yet he is persistent enough to ask you a question three times, that you have not answered. You seem to be more confident of your cases than the original instigator is. Why haven’t you summed up your case on BN? Is it because you are not as sure of your case as when VP posted it for you, or is it because you are scum trying to latch on the best lynch, while not really having a reason of your own?

Yeah, pretty much. You have to drastically adjust your scumdar when dealing with zwet, and if you haven't played with him before that is more difficult to do.

I haven’t played with zwet, so does that mean I must take your word as a townie that he is not scum. Than again you both can be scum, though I find that unlikely. You want a vote ok, this is the person at the top of my list,

vote: zwetschenwasser

A townie would answer questions.

Have you played with him when he was scum or town? Both? Where is he located on your scumdar most likely, least likely, or somewhere in the middle?

Hiphop: I’ve yet to come up with a townie rationale behind planning to lynch a lurker on Day 2.

What is the difference between lynching a lurker than or lynching a lurker now? Either way if the lurker is town we go into lylo, or the game is over. One can say we can give BN a chance, but I doubt that an active person is going to change, because he already has shown his personality, while hohum can change. He can start posting. There is never any real evidence against a lurker, except that he lurks.

I don’t know why hohum is lurking. Perhaps he should be replaced. I would think that if he were town, he would tell the truth and give us his thoughts, and if he were scum he would post to avoid suspicion. I have the suspicion that he isn’t reading the thread at all, which is why he should be replaced. Like I said before, there are two scum. There is still an active lurker in the game.

[hiphop]

Actually, there's no such thing as "overcommittal". There's tunneling, but I also suspect Farcry and hohum, so hiphop is wrong.

You suspect Farcry and hohum, yet you have not shown that you do.

[hiphop]

mod: I have not changed my vote, yet. Porkchopexpress changed his.

I don't feel like lynching Bn, because he did claim doctor. Nobody else has claimed it also, so it must be true. I know they might be trying to hide it, but it would be best to come out. This way we can get rid of at least one scum.

@ VP-I am unsure about lynching zwet right now, because you said the scumtells might be nulltells. I haven't yet done a meta read on him, will do it soon.

I must ask you VP, why is zwet in the middle of your radar? Is it because you never know whether he is scum or not? Or in this game he hasn't done anything to prove he is town?

Mod: Fix'd.. I think.

[hiphop]

I hate claiming, especially when I am only a vanilla. That is right I claim town, and I am a vanilla.

I agree with you Vp. Pe does seem like town.

The only real scummy thing zwet has done in my eyes is buddy pretty hard to me, which makes me uncomfortable.

That is right VP about the buddying, but isn’t this post buddying also.

zwet, we're not lynching hohum. Switch to hiphop.

Besides isn’t an experienced scum player supposed to seem like town, and distance from one’s partner. There is at least one thing that he did that was scummy. He attacked me. Said your case was better, so voted BN. Made this post

uh... lurker votes !> scum votes

After Bn claims, votes hohum completely forgets about me (which he attacked me with a passion in the beginning), when he clearly said that scum votes should be more that lurker votes.

He also makes this post.

He'll be killed eventually.

Is this a foreshadowing from what is to happen by him?

He said he suspected Far-Cry, but he doesn't show it.

I read a few games he was town in, he seems different in a way.

[hiphop]

I was that close to getting lynched. I believe it was Hohum, who turned Vp toward Zwet. Vp may have led the town, but it was because of Hohum that Zwet was lynched. If zwet had voted for me before Vp changed his vote I would have been lynched.

The only person alive right now, who did not vote for Zwet, is brothernature. Since he claimed doc, I am willing to believe that he is town. This leads me to believe that Far_Cry is scum.

I am willing to attack Far_Cry as a likely partner to zwet, because of his last two posts.

Also, Far_Cry and hiphop, why the heck are you not voting? You find no one scummy in the game yet? When will this take place?

Alright, I go

vote zwets

. He's been completely antitown and hasn't done a single thing to help town.

Normally I wouldn't do this

, but with deadline approaching, we need some pressure.

Normally scum wouldn’t say that normally they wouldn’t vote this way when voting for their partner. Just curious Far_Cry if you are town, why wouldn’t you normally vote for someone who you think is suspicious?

I believe he did. I'm considering switching my vote.

You want to change your vote because BN said he is the doc, or because you don’t want to draw attention to your scum buddy now that Bn was not going to be lynched?

Far_Cry was the first vote on zwet. If scum this is the ideal place if voting for buddy, because there isn’t a chance zwet would be lynched with only one vote. If zwet ever flipped scum, Far_Cry could come back and say, “Look I found him suspicious. I even voted for him.”

vote: Far_Cry

Far_Cry was not around when Hohum and Vp were changing their votes, so he didn’t have time to change his.

It is kind of funny being that Far_Cry and Zwet were the people involved in this post.

Far_Cry and zwetschenwasser- What do you plan to gain by your votes? He hasn’t confirmed yet, so I doubt he even knew the game was up. I don’t see any reason for your vote. And you can’t say your votes are random, because your votes aren't.

Actually, there's no such thing as "overcommittal". There's tunneling, but I also suspect Farcry and hohum, so hiphop is wrong.

Another thing against Far_Cry, zwet found Far_Cry suspicious yet gave no reason or actions to why Far_Cry was suspicious. Putting buddy as being suspicious is done by lots of scum.

I think it would be best if the cop came out and gave us his verdict. Think about it that would clear two people, if he got an innocent. That would mean three guaranteed townie against two. Lynch one today and another tomorrow. Town wins. If two cops claim somebody is lying. One must be scum. Same scenario, lynch one today and another tomorrow. Town wins.

[hiphop]

I guess I will start. I am a vanilla townie.

Do you really think that Hohum would Bus his partner? All he had to do was place the vote on me and we would be in lylo. The opportunity and motive for my lynch was there, yet he was willing to believe I was town. Yet it is a possibility.

[hiphop]

I'm interested in hearing the investigation results only if one of 3 people were investigated:

Myself, hiphop or Baltar. Neither of the three of us were investigated we're going to need the cop another night, and nobody should claim.

What about Far_Cry? Why only us three?

I don't like that hiphop is skipping the claim order without a consensus on a claim. Not everyone has even chimed in yet, much less have we had any discussion about it..

First of all I just realized this myself, I already claimed on the first day when I was at L-3, so it didn't matter.

But you were right, I shouldn't have claimed if I hadn't done so already. That just narrows down who the cop is, and gives scum a good chance of killing him if he did investigate someone like PE.

Far_Cry was the first vote on zwet. If scum this is the ideal place if voting for buddy, because there isn’t a chance zwet would be lynched with only one vote. If zwet ever flipped scum, Far_Cry could come back and say, “Look I found him suspicious. I even voted for him.”
vote: Far_Cry
Far_Cry was not around when Hohum and Vp were changing their votes, so he didn’t have time to change his.

It is kind of funny being that Far_Cry and Zwet were the people involved in this post.

This just rubs me the wrong way. You're voting far_cry based on his position on the zwet wagon? Can you explain how this argument has any basis in reality please?

I am voting far_Cry, because he makes the most logical choice of being scum. Why not vote for him because of this? If you were me would you suspect yourself, Vp, or Far_Cry more?

Another thing against Far_Cry, zwet found Far_Cry suspicious yet gave no reason or actions to why Far_Cry was suspicious. Putting buddy as being suspicious is done by lots of scum.

And this makes far_cry guilty because?

Why shouldn't scum put their partner on their suspicious list?

[hiphop]

I thought it would be obvious. It is not what he did that leads me to suspect him, but what other people did.

To me there are four people that can be scum.
bn is obvious town. You lead the lynch for zwet, so I believe you are town.

Therefore it comes down to Far_Cry and Vp. Vp switched his vote in the final minutes of the day, to the scum. Therefore by elimination I believe Far_Cry is scum.

[hiphop]

How do you know that Baltar or hohum wasn't bussing? And how do we know that you weren't bussing zwet? Yeah. Think about that for a sec. I've seen scum who'll defend the townies and bus their partners like a mofo.

Anywho, like everyone else has been suggesting, whoever the cop is, please come out. We need your results, unless of course you did me or PE. Then it would be useless, as PE is dead, and I'm doc. If so, do wait til tomorrow please, and then come out.

Mod, can we get a prod for Far_Cry. He hasn't posted in quite a while.

Apparently the cop must of investigated PE or bn.

You think it would be possible for scum to completely turn a bw heading for a town lynch and vote off their partner? It is possible, but not plausible to me.

You do not know I was bussing zwet, because there is nothing to show that I wasn’t. However I know what I am, so the logic makes sense to me.

Yeah, cop should come out with his investigation as long as he didn't do something completely stupid like investigate brothernature. In fact, it might be best to do a popcorn mass claim to really put the pressure on the scum. Who is for and who is against this?

While I don't agree with everything hip hop said, I'm inclined to believe he is right about Far Cry. He seems like the most likely candidate (though hard bussing by hohum isn't out of the question).

Wait a second. Why would have investigating brothernature been a bad thing?

I thought it would be obvious. It is not what he did that leads me to suspect him, but what other people did.

To me there are four people that can be scum.
bn is obvious town. You lead the lynch for zwet, so I believe you are town.

Therefore it comes down to Far_Cry and Vp. Vp switched his vote in the final minutes of the day, to the scum. Therefore by elimination I believe Far_Cry is scum.

You're forgetting that scum could be have bussed his partner. Why? Becuase the only person alive who didn't vote for zwets is Brothernature. And brothernature is town.

You just answered your first question. If we know someone else is town we can narrow it down between two people.

As for your second question. I already explained that you must of bussed your partner.

Also, I do believe your case on me is weak. It makes no sense.

And here's another question: if I were scum, why would I need to buss my zwets? He was not under pressure; I place the first vote on him. It seems to me you're just trying to find reasons to lynch me.

Exactly why you bussed zwet. He wasn’t under pressure, so it would be safe to put a vote there, without him being lynched. You could of left your vote there and when someone was ready to be lynched you can switch your vote.

Brothernature is town, and I'm inclined to believe that hohum is town, too. Either VP or hiphop is scum.

Same conclusion I got, except that switch your name for mine.

This post struck me as strange:

I guess I will start. I am a vanilla townie.

Do you really think that Hohum would Bus his partner? All he had to do was place the vote on me and we would be in lylo. The opportunity and motive for my lynch was there, yet he was willing to believe I was town. Yet it is a possibility.

No one asked him for his role. He could have easily made this up. True, you make think that since hiphop is relatively new to this site he wouldn't try this; however, you could also say vice-versa.

Because

he is new, he will use this to claim townie and try to shake of suspicion. I'd think that he tried the second.

How soon people forget. Does post 266 ring a bell? I was at L-1. Does any of this sound familiar? Even I forgot this post. I remembered it right after I posted the post of the second time I had claimed.

[hiphop]

In terms of hiphop and Far Cry both saying they are suspicious of me, I encourage you to look at the actual wagon yesterday. I could have very easily left my vote on hiphop and allowed him to be hammered instead of switching my vote at the last minute.

That is why I am more suspicious of Far_Cry than you.

I understand it's WIFOM and I very well could have been bussing, but if you are going to go down that road then I don't see how hohum is cleared in your eyes.

The difference is that Hohum's vote could of lynched me, while yours put me at L-3. If you kept your vote, hohum votes for zwet, leaving the option up to BN or someone like you to switch. That is the difference to me.

[hiphop]

I believe it was Hohum, who turned Vp toward Zwet. Vp may have led the town, but it was because of Hohum that Zwet was lynched.

That's not actually true. Look back at page 11 and you will see hohum votes Far Cry after bn's claim and switches to zwet at the last minute only after I changed my vote. This could be a case of hohum buddying me and bussing his partner in the same post.

I believe I have this game cracked right now and it looks like hohum is the last scum, imo.

Also,

Far_Cry was the first vote on zwet.

he actually wasn't. You were the first vote, but a mod error in the vote count had him listed as first.

I reread and I concede your point on both counts. When the posts were happening I had the impression that Hohum led the lynch because of post 270, when he said he would rather lynch zwet over me.

You both could of bussed him. Hohum, because he doesn't like him, and you because it might make you look better to the townie eyes.

Hohum am I the most scummy in you eyes? If so who is number 2?

[hiphop]

now that we've heard from far_cry I don't like the case hiphop has desperately strung together

Vote: hiphop

Desperately? It makes sense to me.

[hiphop]

it doesn't make sense to me though, and you're going to need a consensus to bring a far_cry lynch about so "it makes sense to me" is not a valid argument.

You've pointedly refused to go into any details so far, you've only laid out your case from a 20,000 mile view.

I gave the best information that was available of any of the three supposedly scum players left. Would you rather of had me say, "I have nothing. What should we do?" I gave my reason as to why Far_Cry is scum.

[hiphop]

We must use the info that we have yesterday, because it is the only information that we have. We are still only one mislynch from lylo. Let’s use what we have. If you don’t like the info from yesterday look at what Far_Cry posted today.

To all those people that think I'm scum, let me ask you a question: why would I vote zwets, my partner? Give me a valid reason.

Why would VP vote his partner? Why would Hohum vote his partner? Why would I vote my partner? Somebody had to. Nobody has given a plausible reason yet. Yours and mine were the only ones early, when there wasn’t any pressure. That is why I suspect you the most. Maybe you voted to throw off suspicion. Maybe you did it, because you didn’t want to be seen fence sitting so close to the deadline. Maybe you did it because Vp told you to vote, and you wanted to vote for someone with a good reason and he was the best. Those are the only plausible reasons I can come up with.

If Hohum was scum he could have done it because of this reason.

A large part of my demotivation has to do with his presence in this game. I requested that this setup be run again and I was /in the game before he was. When I saw he signed up I asked him not to /in himself; however, he knows the mod IRL.

I just simply don't like him, for better or worse. He's an automatic policy lynch for me.

There's no reason other than meta that I prefer a zwet lynch to a hiphop lynch. My reads on hiphop are pretty null.

I actively dislike zwet, to the point that I don't really care if he flips town or not. He needs to be bounced out of this game.

unvote, vote zwet

If he is town this is his reason. If he is scum this is his reason.

Here is another reason why the cop should claim. If he waits until tomorrow, and we don’t lynch scum today, the scum could claim cop too. There is no proof either way. Then it would be down to what bn decides. Why leave it to chance? Now if scum decides to claim, we can lynch one today and the other tomorrow. It would be a sure thing. Besides I have it narrowed down between Far_Cry and Hohum as the cop anyways. You may think I am trying to out the cop, but I want the town to win.

Bn you beat me to it. I was going to ask that question.

[hiphop]

@hiphop, what makes you so certain I'm not the cop. I don't think outting the role is the best idea right now.

Than I won’t explain why I believe you are not the cop. I also don’t want bn to attempt to save the cop. If he does we will lose, because it would be him against the scum. He should only try to save one of the people who claimed vanilla.

I'm getting a little frustrated with you too because I've played with you before and I know that you know the value of pressure wagons. I really wanted to cook hiphop a bit today to see if he would boil over.

Did you not read the game right after the RVS? Zwet tried it, but eventually dropped the case.

[hiphop]

Do you believe that you should be off the hook now just because someone failed at their attempts to pressure you? If so, why?

Nope. Why did you stop pressuring me?

Everything is maybe maybe maybe. How are you so sure I'm scum if everything is maybe?

And what makes you think either hohum or I are the cop?

You are not contributing very much. You are very much lurking, You are content to sit around and let us argue. I too think you and our doc(bn) should contribute more. I guarentee bn will make it through the night. Since he will, he should start scum hunting now, and in case we mislynch have a fallback to attack. Whatever he does he should not attempt to save the cop, otherwise we will lose.

[hiphop]

Whatever he does he should not attempt to save the cop, otherwise we will lose.

Yeah, I'm sure he knows that he cannot protect the cop.

Which is why he should save someone who has no chance of being the cop.

I am totally not lurking.

Let's see about that.

At first, I thought that bn simply breadcrummed his role. But when zwets turned up town, I knew he wasn't. I was considering changing my vote, but I decided to go against and use my gut instinct. Turns out that I was right.

If you had a chance to change your vote, than you had a chance to make a post, which means you were reading the thread after you made your last post of day1. Therefore you were lurking. Plus you are not actually scumhunting at all today.

[hiphop]

A large part of my demotivation has to do with his presence in this game. I requested that this setup be run again and I was /in the game before he was. When I saw he signed up I asked him not to /in himself; however, he knows the mod IRL.

I just simply don't like him, for better or worse. He's an automatic policy lynch for me.

There's no reason other than meta that I prefer a zwet lynch to a hiphop lynch. My reads on hiphop are pretty null.

I actively dislike zwet, to the point that I don't really care if he flips town or not. He needs to be bounced out of this game.

unvote, vote zwet

I believe that he really doesn't like zwet, so I could definitely see him as scum just bussing him for the hell of it.

This is the only part of your case I like. If anything will convince me that hohum is scum, this quote will.

I went and looked at hiphop's other games. One thing I've noticed is that when he is townie, he plays safe, and doesn't come out of his shell. He's doing the exact opposite. He is attacking everyone, common of newb scum.

How many of my games did you read? Perhaps you had better take another look. Besides there are only two games in which you can confirm my role anyways. And those were my first two games on this site. Sorry can't quote any because they are all still on going. Look on my wiki, for all the games I have played in.

Then you come back with this statement.

VP has voted or attacked almost every person in the game.

We both can’t be scum, and yet you say we both are doing the exact same scummy thing. That’s strange.

[hiphop]

@Hiphop: Other than me, who's your next biggest suspect? What are your thoughts on the hohum/VP argument?

It is kind of a tossup between Vp and Hohum, though I am kind of leaning toward Hohum being the last scum. Pretty much the one point that Hohum has on him that is more scummy is post 274.

One of the main points of Hohum’s arguments is that Vp is tearing down bws. Yet he is the one that told VP he would rather see zwet lynched instead of me. So ultimately he is responsible for tearing down my bw and than trying to build it back up. So I don’t believe Hohum has any really goods points on Vp. So I will

unvote
vote: hohum

Vp if hohum is not scum, who is your next suspect?

I believe the only way the cop can get a fair chance to live through the night, is if I am lynched, or there is no lynch. I claimed vanilla so there is no way I can be the cop. This means the cop must be one of the remaining three characters. Also the scum must be one of them too, so if we lynch Hohum, and he is a vanilla, than the scum has an easy shot at the cop. This applies to anyone being scum (besides me, because if I am scum, we lynch someone there will still be two people who the cop can be), and anyone being lynched(besides me, Bn, and whoever scum is). So if we have a lynch today, the cop will die. However hohum seems to be scum to me.

[hiphop]

I guess you targeted Bn being you said he was town.

Now I am starting to have misgivings about Vp. The reason is because Hohum is the one who said the cop should not claim, even though he knew who it was from post 288. Vp on the other hand came into day two not quite agreeing with everything I said. So,

unvote
Vote VP Baltar.

This will also correct Sironigous votecount because he said I am voting for him anyways.

[hiphop]

Not too long ago you thought hohum was scum. Why do you keep switching your vote?

Because I cna't make up my mind. One day I think it is Hohum, the next time I read the thread it is Vp that sticks out. I noticed you haven't voted yet, is it because you can't make up your mind either?

[hiphop]

Ya, I can't, but you are always jumping around.

The correct term is hopping not jumping. My name is hip

hop

Has Vp ever made it to the top of your list?

My case against Vp.

First of all there is the big time one-way buddying by zwet. Which is highlighted by this post-

zwet, we're not lynching hohum. Switch to hiphop.

In post 279 zwet singles you out and congratulates you.

Then there is the possibility that you were the one who bussed zwet, and not Hohum.

Hohum gets townie points for indistinctly saying Far_Cry is the cop, and that he shouldn’t claim unless he investigated one of the vanillas alive right now. You on the other hand looked like you wanted the cop to claim, by asking, "should the cop claim" twice. It looked to me that you wanted to confirm who the cop was but wanted to do it without creating attention on you. A new kind of fencesitting? That is what swayed me to vote for you. I can’t leave my vote on someone when I think someone is more scummy.

(still directed at VP)Then we have my case against Far_Cry. You say you don’t agree with everything I say, but you were still willing to still attack Far_Cry. Hopping on the bw? Hohum attacks and votes for you, you attack and vote for Hohum. I attack and vote for you, you say you thought I was town, but are not so sure anymore. Am I seeing a pattern here? A series of OMGUSing.

It isn’t much, but there isn’t much on Hohum either. Hohum’s post 274 could be made by a townie too. Even now I am having doubts, but I still think Vp at the moment is the most scummy.

Town- Am I the only one who didn’t know Far_Cry was the cop until post 367?

[hiphop]

See now, hiphop, you're making me do all this work to show you how incorrect you are on a Saturday morning. You're lucky I'm more inclined to believe you are town than hohum or I'd probably be upset.

Before you sounded like you were starting to suspect me, because I voted for you. That was OMGUSing

That's how I roll. Meta me if you don't believe it. If there is a wagon I want, I will do some goading if necessary to get people on it. Plus we were approaching a deadline and I had almost no read whatsoever on hohum at that time. Your lynch sounded much better to me. Also, I would like you to explain to me why I, if I were scum, would not simply wait for zwet to come in and vote you instead of switching my vote to him at the last minute. How does that make any sense to you?

The same as why didn't Hohum cast the hammer vote on me? You wanted to have townie points. Wanted to get off a bw? Anything else I am not thinking of?

In post 279 zwet singles you out and congratulates you.

That's because I beat him on meta alone. As I said before, I cannot quote from the game that I got his meta from because it is ongoing, but it was a very comprehensive and impressive piece of work that did a lot toward making me change my mind.

Also, if you want to accuse me of being buddied by zwet over that stupid post, how do you explain the deleted post where he said one of you and Far Cry are his buddies? Since Far Cry is the cop, shouldn't I be lyching you over that?

I didn't see that post. I didn't get off work until a half hour after night started. How can he say both of us are his scum buddies?

Sorry to inform you, but it was pretty obvious the stars were aligned toward Far Cry being the cop. I'll explain for you. Here is the list we started the day with:

Hohum's questioning you are talking about along with Far Cry's question about investigating brothernature clearly indicate hohum is not the cop. So, you see, at that point it is so obvious who the cop actually is that town is actually better served having him claim so we have another confirmed innocent and the pool of scum is even narrower to choose from. You were already barking up that wrong tree pretty heartily today, so it is probably best that Far Cry claimed so you can focus on where the scum is actually at. Do you now understand how it was a pro-town move for the cop to claim today rather than wait?

Pro-town only if I am town, but you asked if the cop should claim right after I posted my case against Far_Cry. Way before Hohum's questioning.

Furthermore, keep in mind that I think hohum is scum. I also know he's a very smart guy and probably would have followed the same process of elimination to figure out who the cop is. Had Far Cry stayed hidden for the remainder of the day, we would have had less of a chance of hitting scum today and he probably still would have been killed at night. Relying on powerroles to find the scum for you isn't a very good move to make.

Less of a chance? The rest of the town would of not even had voted for Far_Cry. I only stopped the pressure, because nobody was attacking along with me. Either way you or Hohum would of been lynched.

Putting pressure on a player is not necessarily "hopping on the bw". I never voted him and once he accidentally made it clear he was the cop, I backed off. You did make a lot of very bad points in your case, but you also had one or two that I thought were at least worth pushing a bit further. How is that scummy?

I get it now. Townie points for that one. In a game that just ended here One of the town persons said that townies would push their case until it was answered and than back off(like you did), while scum would most likely not.

unvote

Hohum attacks and votes for you, you attack and vote for Hohum.

This is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. Hohum attacked you for your case on Far Cry. I didn't buy his case and said this:

In terms of who I would like lynched, that's a tougher question since we obviously have a situation of someone bussing their partner. I need to look at both Far Cry and yourself in iso before I can reach any sort of a serious conclusion. If I absolutely had to chose though, based upon those last few pages in the day I just read, I would say that you're [hohum] my lynch choice at this very moment.

Only after I said that, does hohum attack me. That's not OMGUS on my part by any definition. As far as you saying I'm OMGUSing you, how is that so? I said you changing your vote based on Far Cry's claim is odd. Does that translate into scummy for you?

You said, "I was pretty sure he was town." That tells me you now have doubts of me being town because of my vote. Do need me to quote it?

I am surprised that bn hasn't posted yet, being it is Sunday in two minutes and he said he will be back after Friday. Also Hohum not posting in the last two days strikes me as odd. When I was voting for him he was posting, but now that you turned toward me and me unvoting him, he decides to stop posting.

I still can't make up my mind between you two. I want to win a game.

@Far_Cry-I noticed in post 379 Vp was on the bottom, but now Hohum is. What changed?

[hiphop]

Perhaps, but I don't know if that facts actually point to that. Look back at the timeline of events. I voted you after following my town read on PE. 24 hours later I said I was reconsidering and thinking about a zwet lynch. Hohum did not post in that period, so it may simply be that he didn't have a chance to hammer you before I expressed some doubt. I don't personally think that if you had been lynched and flipped town I would have looked all that suspicious. However, if hohum had quick hammered you after I said I was reconsidering, it would have no doubt looked very bad for him.

There are not really facts on that. It is all pretty much wifom. You could of made that post, so that if anyone who wanted a lynch(which was everybody) hammered, you had a base to attack them today. He could have waited until PE chimed in to see what PE would think before he even voted.

He said ONE of you two were. It's an obvious WIFOM move that may or may not have been true. (I actually want to talk about this post game...so remind me if I forget).

Maybe that was why he was so adamantly with me today. I am surprised you didn't attack me over this.

That's because if the cop had investigated one of myself, hohum or you we would have been guaranteed a victory in the game. Think about it. We have two lynches left to spend and there are only three actual suspects right now. If we could have cleared one of those persons it would have been the same as an auto win.

That was my reasoning. There is no need to convince of that, but if you were so for this why did you ask and not say?

Don't count yourself out of this buddy. You are by no means confirmed town.

I never said I was, but there was no reason to continuely attack Far_Cry when he wasn't posting as often as I wanted him to and nobody else was backing me. Still it looks like you change your opinion of me, just because I voted for you.

Unvote, vote hohum

. It's seriously time for you to claim.

Who is hopping now?

[hiphop]

I know my argument is wifom, that is why I said it is all wifom, and not just your argument or just my argument is wifom.

I believe that Hohum is scum, but your buddying(even you use the term buddy in post 386) is starting to bother me. I know you can probably say you like to do that to get people to vote with you, but both scum and town Vp can do that.

I will wait at least until Hohum decides to post before I will vote. In a couple of hours, he will need a prod anyways.

I wish bn would give us his thoughts.

[hiphop]

mod:can you please prod Hohum?

[hiphop]

Agreed. Reading back over the last couple pages has left me wanting to hear from hohum. He never replied to your case against him, Baltar. Just said "OMGUS" and left it. But I just really don't wanna lynch of over lurking. If we mislynch, we'll be at Lylo tomorrow, unless I get a successfull protection. And that would be rather hard with the cop claiming today. The obvious choice would to be to protect the cop. But the scum know that, so they would target someone else. But of course I know that they would know that so I wouldn't protect the cop. But of course they know that and and would target the cop and so on.

You had better not. Don't protect the cop. If you protect the cop the cop will die, it says so in the rules. Do not do it. Did you not read your pm?

[hiphop]

Oh yes he will. I guess your pm does not mention it, but the cop's does. Read this. Notice, how it says "You will go down" and where it says it. I bolded it for you.

1 player has received this PM:

Welcome to Bird 7P!
You think you know everything.

That’s right, you DO know everything. It just takes time to figure out what you know.

You, _____, are the macho cop, sworn to rid the town of the mafia infiltration.

However, should the doctor try to protect you, you won't accept it -

you will go down

, but the town will know, you are the MAN.

Each night you may send me the name of one player and I will tell you that player’s alignment.

You win and the town win when all mafia forces are eliminated from the town.
You cannot win with the mafia!

[hiphop]

Here I will ask him.

mod:will the cop die if the doc protects him?

[hiphop]

vote:hohum