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[scotmany12]

Yos, I was the one who said that. Are you trying to say I was manipulating the town?

[Yosarian2]

Yos, stop referring to obvscum ad obvtown. It's upsetting. Adel was scummy.

Adel was not scummy. Everything Adel did makes perfect sense from a "Adel is pro-town" point of view, and really much less sense from a "Adel is scummy" point of view. I can't see Adel-scum acting like that, at all.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, I was the one who said that.

You were hardly the only one who said it, scot. Quite a few other people did as well.

And, no, I don't think you're scum, scot; i just said that you're confirmed town.

[scotmany12]

Yos, stop referring to obvscum ad obvtown. It's upsetting. Adel was scummy.

Adel was not scummy. Everything Adel did makes perfect sense from a "Adel is pro-town" point of view, and really much less sense from a "Adel is scummy" point of view. I can't see Adel-scum acting like that, at all.

Nothing but his actions in the very beginning of the game make sense from a protown point-of-view. The FL lynch is horrible if people actually dig deeper into it. Had FL been scum, he would have switched me out before he was lynched. His defense on Sens was ridiculous, and had no bases. Him not voicing his opinions makes absolutely no sense. Him calling me scum for attacking Sens made no sense, despite you Yos also did it, as well as CKD. Him actually ignoring me responding to his "points" against me makes no sense for a protown player. His vote on Sens definitely made no sense. He was pushing that sens play here is consistent with his protown meta. That doesn't just change Yos.

And then there is MSH, who's attack on Ren was based on a theory full of baseless assumptions, and his hammer on Sens when there was possible that discussion might have picked up.

[scotmany12]

Yos, I was the one who said that.

You were hardly the only one who said it, scot. Quite a few other people did as well.

And, no, I don't think you're scum, scot; i just said that you're confirmed town.

I'm fairly positive that I was the first one to suggest it. Somewhere in the beginning of day 2.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, stop referring to obvscum ad obvtown. It's upsetting. Adel was scummy.

Adel was not scummy. Everything Adel did makes perfect sense from a "Adel is pro-town" point of view, and really much less sense from a "Adel is scummy" point of view. I can't see Adel-scum acting like that, at all.

Nothing but his actions in the very beginning of the game make sense from a protown point-of-view. The FL lynch is horrible if people actually dig deeper into it. Had FL been scum, he would have switched me out before he was lynched.

Perhaps, except Adel intentionally ran him up during a time she knew FL was unlikely to be online, something he apparently took the time to figure out, and the hammer happened before FL did get back to the thread. So, actually, he couldn't have, and if FL had been scum Adel's plan would have worked perfectly.

I can't see Adel doing that as scum, way too high-risk and much too low of a payoff. The only explination I ever hear for why Adel would have done that as scum was "Adel was trying to prevent his buddy sensfan from being lynched that day", which we now know was false anyway.

Now, as it actually turns out, it's a shame FL didn't get back in time; if FL had posted and had not switched the role, it actually may have cleared him as town, depending on exactally how it happend.

His defense on Sens was ridiculous, and had no bases.

Eh. He defended Sensfan on some meta read that I don't fully understand. As it turns out, he was right. I can't imagine how that could possibly be a point against Adel.

Him not voicing his opinions makes absolutely no sense. Him calling me scum for attacking Sens made no sense, despite you Yos also did it, as well as CKD. Him actually ignoring me responding to his "points" against me makes no sense for a protown player. His vote on Sens definitely made no sense. He was pushing that sens play here is consistent with his protown meta. That doesn't just change Yos.

Eh. We've been through all of this. Him changing his mind on sensfan in response to lurking makes perfet sense to me.

And then there is MSH, who's attack on Ren was based on a theory full of baseless assumptions, and his hammer on Sens when there was possible that discussion might have picked up.

I really get the feeling that your response to MSH's argument was some kind of gut "he's using math, math is bad" response on your part, which I don't at all agree with.

As for "discussion might have picked up"; I wish he had waited until Sunday, when CKD had promised to post; in fact, I had specfically suggested in thread that I'd like to hear from CKD first. However, I don't see any reason to expect we were ever going to get anything out of sensfan yesterday no matter how long we waited, to be honest.

[scotmany12]

Yos, most of this discussion between us won't really reach anything, but when you say his vote on Sens makes perfect sense, I just don't get it. Someone's meta on a person doesn't just change like that. Im not going back to look exactly at Adel's defense, but it seems like he believed Sens to be acting exactly as he would be as town. Sens hadn't really done anything different between day one and day two. Someone's meta just doesn't change like that Yos.

[OhGodMyLife]

So, after Vollkan scum gets a righteous vig bullet between the eyes, I think we should still lynch Michel, because he and Yos are both scum, so the cop result is probably going to be falsified anyway. If Yos wants to go ahead and assume Michel will be lynched and take the cop ability, thats just fine by me.

Michel, all of your theorizing yesterday about Ren scum and Goat scum was a huge, huge reach based on completely wack-tackular assumptions. Ren isn't scum today, he wasn't scum yesterday. I understand that you haven't really got any other options except trying to get these confirmed players to be less confirmed, but know for the future that it just makes you more obvious.

[Yosarian2]

Day 1, sens wasn't saying much, but he was at least playing the game, both in here and in Adel's thread with him apparently.

It seemed like Adel's meta on him invovled some of the sloppy play he was doing day 1, some of the mistakes he made, that Adel thought he wouldn't do as scum but would do as town, or something like that. I'm don't entirly understand it myself.

But then his play did change. As soon as he wasn't under pressure anymore, he vanished, stopped posting in thread and apparently stopped posting in the quicktopic thread. Note that the pressure against him largely went away because of Adel's defense, and you can really see why Adel would suddenly regret the defense, decide that he was wrong all along, and say "screw this, if this is what he's going to do when I stick out my neck to defend him, then fuck it, let's lynch him."

It seems like a perfectly understandable reaction to me; and, honestly, not an anti-town one either; town should get mad when people do that and start to lurk like that.

[Yosarian2]

If Yos wants to go ahead and assume Michel will be lynched and take the cop ability, thats just fine by me.

OGML, do you actually realize not how bad it is to be fishing for the cop role like this before the scum get to make their kill, in a situation where if the scum do kill the cop the town gets no investigation?

[Yosarian2]

Ebwop: "realize not" should be "not realize"

[scotmany12]

Yos, we clearly aren't going to convince the other to change his mind. Let's focus on catching the third scum. Of course will have more information when the vig kill goes through, but out of everyone, I'd be leaning Ojanen.

[OhGodMyLife]

If Yos wants to go ahead and assume Michel will be lynched and take the cop ability, thats just fine by me.

OGML, do you actually realize not how bad it is to be fishing for the cop role like this before the scum get to make their kill, in a situation where if the scum do kill the cop the town gets no investigation?

If either you or Michel is not scum then to kill the cop the scum must kill someone who will almost certainly be a mislynch in the near future. I'd rather lose the cop investigation and get the scummiest people out of the way than let you and Michel live another day while we go on a fishing expedition amongst the rest of the living players.

[Ojanen]

Perhaps, except Adel intentionally ran him up during a time she knew FL was unlikely to be online, something he apparently took the time to figure out, and the hammer happened before FL did get back to the thread.

This is a minor thing but I actually took once the time to check whether that window was true. It's a shame I can't find my exact notes anymore and the search doesn't work. Looking from my timezone, Adel started the quicklynch attack Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:24 pm (half an hour after which FL actually happened to visit the thread). As far as I remember, in my check I found FL almost never posts between 1 am and 7 am but relatively often stays up until 11pm and sometimes until midnight. Saturdays were no exception to this. A minor thing, but since you brought it up I can as well mention it.

[Yosarian2]

OGML, you need to wait until after the scum kill before this discussion goes any farther. After the scum kill has hapened, if you really want to discuss lynching whichever one of me/michael is not the cop then, then we'll talk about it then. Until then, stop cop fishing.

[Goatrevolt]

If both Michel and Yosarian are scum together, then Yosarian played one of the most blatantly over the top defenses of as scum buddy I've ever seen. And now Michel is defending Yosarian today as well. Considering neither of them really have the sway to stop a lynch on the other, I'm guessing they are not both scum together, unless tying themselves together for no benefit is the optimum scum play here.

[Ren Hoek]

GR, you're the only one that KNOWS who at least one scum is. The rest of us are still in the dark, and it's pointless to analyze without that knowledge. The best way to find scum is to see who they distanced with, and who they tied themselves to.

Since you KNOW, who do you know think is scum, other than the scumbag you're not revealing to the rest of us?

[Goatrevolt]

I mentioned this in the Creative Department QT, but we should not have chosen Bus Driver today. It's simply a liability.

I had a plan in place to maybe try to trap up Budja, but honestly, I'd rather just play this straightforward and not risk anything on a gambit. I like to play risky, but I simply don't think it's worth it here.

I took the vig shot. I'm shooting Vollkan. Budja and I are working out the best bus drive choices. If in 72 hours I'm dead and Vollkan is not dead, then Budja is scum.

Right now the scum team is Vollkan + one of Ojanen/CKD + one of Yosarian/Michel. Outside shot of Budja. Outside shot of both Michel/Yos and they decided to play this absurdly obviously.

[Goatrevolt]

Oh, and whoever gets cop, don't use your ability right away. Considering you don't get results until the end of the day anyway, wait for the scum kill. Wait to ensure I shotty Vollkan in the face successfully, and then use it on someone who is still alive.

There is no downside to doing that.

[vollkan]

Vote: Goatrevolt

I know I am not scum, and so since you have claimed that you tracked me, you must be scum. I'm extremely surprised by that, but it has to be true. It sounds like the kill has been submitted, which means my time is limited (thus making my vote purely symbolic).

I suspect Goat and Budja are probably scum together, but Budja, if you are not scum, for the sake of this game bus from me to Goat.

[scotmany12]

Scumteam is Vollkan, MSH and Ojanen. Pretty confident in this right now. Budja, don't listen to vollkan.

[Goatrevolt]

Yeah, it should go without saying but I will say it anyway. Don't listen to Vollkan's lies.

[OhGodMyLife]

Hell yes I predicted the Vollkan vigging.

Bow-chicka-bow-wow

[vollkan]

Hell yes I predicted the Vollkan vigging.

Bow-chicka-bow-wow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

[OhGodMyLife]

Hell yes I predicted the Vollkan vigging.

Bow-chicka-bow-wow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base