Advertising Mafia - Over, see 1183

[Ren Hoek]

I want to point out that you're not pushing really hard against the players you claim to have pinned out as scum. If at all.

[Korts]

From: ether@genericads-hq.com
To: All Departments
CC: -
Subject: Accounts, ROPL pitch, et cetera

Ladies!

I hope you aren't forgetting about our Random Overhyped Product Line pitch amidst all this democracy foolishness. Representatives from the ROPL's manufacturers will be coming next week, I want this business solved by then. Meanwhile, I hope the local businesses are striving under your loving capitalist care; I heard Lou's shop is blooming. Good on him, and good on you. There might even be a worthless award and the acclaim of the ad business and the like in small jobs like these, so carry on my wayward sons.

Hugz and kisses
Ether

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It is now Working Hours. Morning subphase ends 72 hours from now, on August 22th 9 AM EST.

() -

not voting:

vollkan, Ojanen, Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog, scotmany12, MichelSableheart, Goatrevolt, Budja, Yosarian2

six to lynch

Deadline is September 8th 6 PM EST

[Korts]

Immediate actions:

alignment investigate (result),

kill--within 0-24 hours if public
rest of day actions: protect, roleblock, track, watch, plant evidence (Framer and Undertaker), busdrive--exact time stamps
end of day actions: track (result), watch (result)--after lynch scene

Korts, we need a clarification.

I apologize, that seems to be a typo. The alignment investigation resolves immediately, the results will be received at the end of the day.

[Ren Hoek]

It would be nice if vollkan applied his superior brain power to catching scum, instead of flying under the radar. He could be really helpful, even if he's scum faking it.

[Yosarian2]

Really, Ojanen? Really.

Please post a case against Ojanen. And it better be a good one.

I got those names just by process of elimination, ren.

This is the list of players:

vollkan - Head of Account Services
Ojanen crywolf20084 - Account Executive
Ren Hoek - Account Executive
OhGodMyLife Nuwen - Account Executive
curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
scotmany12 - Creative Director
MichelSableheart Adel - Copywriter
Goatrevolt - Copywriter
Budja - Art Director
Yosarian2 -Art Director

Out of that list, Goat and Scot are confirmed town, and I have pretty sure strong reasons to think OGML and Mike are town.

From my point of view, that only leaves

vollkan - Head of Account Services
Ojanen crywolf20084 - Account Executive
Ren Hoek - Account Executive
curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
Budja - Art Director

Out of that list, I am sure CKD is scum. So the other scum must be in the group of (Volkan, CKD, Brujah, Ren Hoek, Ojanen .) And I have more of a reason to think you're town then anyone else on that list, so my guess would be that the remaining scum are contained within the group of (Volkan, Brujah, Ojaen).

[Yosarian2]

I want to point out that you're not pushing really hard against the players you claim to have pinned out as scum. If at all.

I haven't been pushing hard against CKD? What game are you reading?

CKD is the one I'm the most confident about. We should have lynched him yesterday.

[Ren Hoek]

Your pushing against CKD feels a bit OMGUS-y.

[Ojanen]

Yos, your case on CKD is basically limited to that Adel/MSH is obvtown to you, the bandwagon of OMGL/ckd/Ren was terrible and there must be scum in it.

There are 3 people really attacking Adel here; OGML, Ren, and CKD. I think OGML's actions, his agressivness and scumhunting, seem townish to me, and in line with his meta. However, this Adel wagon is so clearly terrible that I would have trouble beliving it's not pushed by scum right now.
I'm not at all convicned by CKD's case against Adel; more to the point, if I'm right and Adel is town, the timing of CKD's case, coming after OGML got the wagon moving, makes me think he's likely scum here.

Really? What if I told you in the QT thread, I was the one that got the Adel wagon "moving"? What if it was Ren? Have a feeling you would be pushing us as scum but providing different reasons.

Eh, I doubt it. It's pretty clear OMGL game into the game with a new perspective that was quite different from anyone else's, and that he came to different conclusions that were different; before OGML replaced in, I really think everyone thought Adel was town. I do think oppertunistic scum would take advantage of, and hide behind, an agressive player like OGML if he's wrong.

(shrug) It depends. If you had some really good argument in the QT (hopefully one better then the really weak case you posted in thread), and posted that before OMGL replaced into the game, then that would likely change my opinion of you.
Of course, then I would wonder why you were attacking Adel in the quicktopic and not in thread, and letting someone else take the lead in thread.

After the quicktopic was posted and you saw that ckd had indeed been the first one to express doubt against Adel, before OGML posted content, you just went

Anyway, CKD's whole argument there that started the case on Adel seemed to be about the FL quicklynch, right? Mmm....I donno, it made sense to me at the time, and I'm having trouble seeing that as a scum gabit on Adel's part.

which seemed a vague dismission of evidence opposing your case.
Also, I'm puzzled if you really studied the timeline carefully. Ckd posted concerns about the FL quicklynch on sunday 26 to quicktopic and game thread, and questioned Adel about taking tracker role on Saturday 25, and OGML bursted in with content and Adel suspicion on Monday 27.

Otherwise your case has just seemed like potshots at ckd to see if something sticks, like for example why he specifically didn't question Ren's statement that there was a case against Yos in our quicktopic. I don't see why that is incriminating specifically against ckd (IRC he's one of the gang finding Ren quite cleared through the Seraphim kill) and you're not asking the same thing from, for instance, vollkan.

I'm not really getting your case.

[MichelSableheart]

One thing to MSH though:
What is your current stance on Ren?

Assuming that Goat did indeed find scum: Much more likely town, but not confirmed.

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Unsurprisingly, I strongly belief that we should take the information from the vig kill into account before deciding on a lynch. Discussion can't hurt too much though.

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scot, it is impossible that I am the only scum in this game. If I am the only viable lynch today, who do you belief my partners are?

[Ren Hoek]

MSH, would you be willing to lynch Yosarian?

[Yosarian2]

Your pushing against CKD feels a bit OMGUS-y.

How? CKD wasn't attacking me when I started attacking him.

Ojanen: I guess I'm having a little trouble explaining this. Take a step back, and look at the whole game, not just individual players. Consider how the bandwagons have moved, consider how players have joined different factions, consider how it is all going. Also consider that we haven't lynched scum yet, despite having lots of good information (2 confirmed innocents, for one), and that the main thrust for today again seems to be towords mike and me, two players I think are obviosuly pro-town.

When I examime the whole game, when I FEEL the game as a whole, I can tell that the town is being manipulated by scum. Specfically, that faction I was talking about, the accounting faction,, led by OGML, Ren, and CKD, is leading the town and consistnatly pushing in anti-town directions, and I doubt it's a coincidence. I am sure that there is scum there, and I'm almost sure it's CKD.

[curiouskarmadog]

update post coming on friday......my week days seem super full as of late.

[MichelSableheart]

MSH, would you be willing to lynch Yosarian?

At this point in time, no. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that he's scum, I find myself agreeing with almost everything he says, I believe his stance of defending Adel is not one scum is likely to make, and he is the other member of my creative team.

[Ren Hoek]

I'm interested in your theory that we're being manipulated by scum.

For instance, yesterday, MSH hammered the scummalurking SensFan.

The voters were:
(6) Budja, Goatrevolt, Ojanen, Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, MSH

CKD isn't even on the list and vollkan was too scaredy to vote.

Please tell me more about your theory and how it works.

There are the players that were reluctant to unvote me before the FL lynch:
(4) Ren Hoek- Budja, Yosarian2, vollkan, SensFan

[Ren Hoek]

MSH, would you be willing to lynch Yosarian?

At this point in time, no. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that he's scum, I find myself agreeing with almost everything he says, I believe his stance of defending Adel is not one scum is likely to make, and he is the other member of my creative team.

Alright, who are you willing to lynch, and can you make a convincing case? Maybe I'll join you if it's compelling.

[Yosarian2]

I'm interested in your theory that we're being manipulated by scum.

For instance, yesterday, MSH hammered the scummalurking SensFan.

The voters were:
(6) Budja, Goatrevolt, Ojanen, Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, MSH

CKD isn't even on the list and vollkan was too scaredy to vote.

No, CKD wasn't on that wagon, he was trying to set up a mislynch of MSH today instead.

[Ren Hoek]

No, CKD wasn't on that wagon, he was trying to set up a mislynch of MSH today instead.

How do you know it would be a mislynch?

[MichelSableheart]

Alright, who are you willing to lynch, and can you make a convincing case? Maybe I'll join you if it's compelling.

At this moment, I'm not willing to lynch anyone. Goatrevolt claims to have found scum. When morninghours end, the vig kill will resolve, hopefully on the scum Goat found. That is going to give us an incredible amount of information. The information gained there will hopefully help me determine who the other scum are, and who therefore should be lynched.

[Yosarian2]

No, CKD wasn't on that wagon, he was trying to set up a mislynch of MSH today instead.

How do you know it would be a mislynch?

Because mike is obvtown.

Haven't we already been through this?

[scotmany12]

MSH, I obviously don't think you are the lynch anymore today as the cop doesn't get a result until the end of the day. So we'll just lynch you tomorrow.

Yos, stop referring to obvscum ad obvtown. It's upsetting. Adel was scummy. MSH just added to that by pushing a ridiculous theory to try and get Ren lynched. Then to make matters worse, he hammers Sens when Sens was at least attempting to contribute. So this is how its going to go, Goat or Budja will kill scum, we'll lynch whoever else is scum today. Tomorrow, assuming the cop result is an innocent, MSH is getting lynched, and then we will win unless there are more than 3 scum (doubtful).

[scotmany12]

When I examime the whole game, when I FEEL the game as a whole, I can tell that the town is being manipulated by scum.

And you continue to believe MSH to be town? Out of everyone, he would be the most guilty of manipulating, which is evident from the FL lynch. If anyone has been manipulating people it has been Adel.

[Ojanen]

One thing to MSH though:
What is your current stance on Ren?

Assuming that Goat did indeed find scum: Much more likely town, but not confirmed.

Wait. I'm getting really confused on whether Goat was scummy in your opinion and how much Ren's alignment is dependent on his in your opinion.

I agree with you that the busdriver's claimed targets are plausible and natural. I am also in no way trying to imply that Goatrevolt is scum.

I definitely interpreted you implying suspicion of Goat because you have been bringing up the scenario of him+Ren in concerned tones quite a lot.

AFAIK, I have only brought it up either when asked for clarification or when people were arguing against that specific part of my argument.

[Ojanen]

Ojanen: I guess I'm having a little trouble explaining this. Take a step back, and look at the whole game, not just individual players. Consider how the bandwagons have moved, consider how players have joined different factions, consider how it is all going. Also consider that we haven't lynched scum yet, despite having lots of good information (2 confirmed innocents, for one), and that the main thrust for today again seems to be towords mike and me, two players I think are obviosuly pro-town.
When I examime the whole game, when I FEEL the game as a whole, I can tell that the town is being manipulated by scum. Specfically, that faction I was talking about, the accounting faction,, led by OGML, Ren, and CKD, is leading the town and consistnatly pushing in anti-town directions, and I doubt it's a coincidence. I am sure that there is scum there, and I'm almost sure it's CKD.

I understand your viewpoint. I've been thinking and wondering about factions and group dynamics as a whole myself and a few things puzzle me. The point where we don't meet at all is thinking you and MSH obvtown (actually, I think you and Michel are quite alone of that opinion). Are the "anti-town directions" you refer to suspicion of you and Michel?

[Yosarian2]

I understand your viewpoint. I've been thinking and wondering about factions and group dynamics as a whole myself and a few things puzzle me. The point where we don't meet at all is thinking you and MSH obvtown (actually, I think you and Michel are quite alone of that opinion). Are the "anti-town directions" you refer to suspicion of you and Michel?

Actually, the big thing was the whole "either Sens of Michael must be scum" thing yesterday with no good reason for that false dicotamy; and now it seems like "Ok, sens was town, so therefore michale must be scum", still while giving no reason why that must be true.

[MichelSableheart]

I felt Ren was scum at that time because I saw 2 scenario's, both relatively likely, in which Ren was scum. In one of these scenario's, Goat was scum. This did not imply that Goat was scum (after all, the Goat town scenario was also a good possibility), but I believed it was a possibility.

Goat almost certainly being town removes half the basis of my suspicion of Ren. The other half of my suspicion is reason enough to still not consider him confirmed, but my suspicions have lessened enormously.