The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[populartajo]

Tajo's reaction to Lamont seeing logic seems scummy and I'd definitely be ready to vote for him.

What reaction?
What is logical in Lammont?

[populartajo]

I'm very uncertain about his alignment, although I'm more interested in a Zwet lynch. But we must be careful, for all we know scum might have a copy of the VT role PM.

Yeah this is a good point.

My problem with Lammont is that he is

a) clearing people based on the vanilla PM.

b) he is not even consistent with this. He thinks Zazie and Siro are town for this but he avoids my unvote at the time and he manages to get a three scumteam (zwet, pyro and me) out of nothing.

Also that 180 flip regarding Pyro is scummy as hell. I dont think Im the only one seeing this.

[Amished]

Seeing that two scum is too few for a game this size, so from his viewpoint 3 would have to be the case as he's cleared everybody else. He had 4 "suspects" including him, and he cleared pyro previously. That left you and Zwet. After I pointed that out, he put Pyro back into his scumlist as well. That's what's logical about Lamont.

4 suspects (including self)
clear one other (and clear self)
2 suspects in a game of 19 is too few for normal balance, so need 3.
Unclear the "other"

This is all something I would expect a logical player to do (and a viewpoint that I can see). From that, a position that I can understand helps my read on a player much more than scum tells ever will.

[populartajo]

What about if you assume he is scum that is reacting to the pressure when we found his logic was inconsistent?

Amished what about if you assume he is scum with Pyro?

This "logic" reasoning does not clear Lammont at all and even worse that doesnt even make me more suspect for poking at the holes of his logic.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo its over. You, Pyro and Zwet are scum.

Scum will unvote townies so what. That doesn't clear you.

I did alot of research much later than the post you quoted of me. Of course Vanillager claims are suspect, that's obvious.

Face it all 3 of you are done.

1)

Tell me why dodesnt your logic apply to me?

No. YOU show me where you referenced the town PM like the others did. I haven't seen it and NOBODY else has either.

2)

Also tell me why did you change your mind so radically when me and Amished asked for why you thought Pyro was town?

I said I had town vibes from him all game. That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all). Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm very uncertain about his alignment, although I'm more interested in a Zwet lynch. But we must be careful, for all we know scum might have a copy of the VT role PM.

Yeah this is a good point.

My problem with Lammont is that he is

a) clearing people based on the vanilla PM.

b) he is not even consistent with this. He thinks Zazie and Siro are town for this but he avoids my unvote at the time and he manages to get a three scumteam (zwet, pyro and me) out of nothing.

Also that 180 flip regarding Pyro is scummy as hell. I dont think Im the only one seeing this.

This is so illogical and totally condemns you.

Your crappy quote has NOTHING to do with the town role PM. The reason why you cant even put together a proper defense here is because YOU DON'T HAVE A TOWN ROLE PM.

[Lamont_Cranston]

One thing we can say here though, Tajo IS trying. Got to give him points for that.

[populartajo]

No. YOU show me where you referenced the town PM like the others did. I haven't seen it and NOBODY else has either.

Lammont, I already did. Check post 3617.

Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

Why so eager to form scumgroups? Can you explain your logic in clearing Zazie and Siro? Can you explain, now that youve reread post 3617, why the same logic isnt applied to me?

That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all).

To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

Contradiction much?

Why are you voting Pyro over zwet or me?

Vote : Lammont.

[quote="Lammont]Your crappy quote has NOTHING to do with the town role PM. The reason why you cant even put together a proper defense here is because YOU DON'T HAVE A TOWN ROLE PM[/quote]
Actually I do. Those two phrases dont even make sense together. My defense is also proper. Its YOU who should explain the inconsitencies in your play.

Lammont is throwing shit to the walls to see what sticks. Can we lynch him now?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok so you haven't

positively

referenced the town role pm like the others.

Your unvote remains unexplained.

I will examine this in-thread and post my opinion.

[Lamont_Cranston]

For everyone's easy reference, here is the quote in-thread:

Tajo's Highly Vaunted Unvote

[Lamont_Cranston]

He just unvotes and disappears and never says anything about it again.

Does anybody really believe that the scum have the VT role PM??

If they do we are really screwed because being at potentially MYLO and having many potential suspects is really bad for the town.

I do not know the actual value of this suggestion, but I will at least make it so people can comment on it:

It is possible that we can No Lynch and let Stepho clear another person.

Based on the recent events:

Unvote

[dramonic]

Now, if you two will stop bickering, this conversation is about as useless as it is crap. we have 4 suspect. We lynch Zwet who has no defense, investigate Lamont, lynch him if he's scum, if not we lynch Pyro and investigate Tajo.

It's not rocket science <<

[Amished]

@Dram: Seems logical.

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

[Lamont_Cranston]

Now, I'm as down for a zwet vote as the two of you but what about the scum having the town role PM?

Isn't it possible we are just being lead around by the nose here?

[dramonic]

Usually bastard modding isn't completely designed to make the town lose. The match thing is already crippling enough, I doubt they have the role PM too.

Also, I'd like to make it clear, specifically for Tajo, unvoting someone who states the town PM doesn't make you town-confirmed. Scum knows who is town, therefore they can confirm any claim from a VT without being shown suspicious.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ya the timing of it was so perfect though. I mean of course I agree with you but he himself even brought it up like he was conscious of it and did it on purpose. It kind of scares me.

How sure can we be that our list is really correct? Two people are being cleared solely because of the town role PM and now we have a third person that really, has to be scum, with the same info..

It just scares me.

[populartajo]

Lammont, you havent still given a valid answer to this:

Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

Why so eager to form scumgroups? Can you explain your logic in clearing Zazie and Siro? Can you explain, now that youve reread post 3617, why the same logic isnt applied to me?

That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all).

To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

Contradiction much?

Why are you voting Pyro over zwet or me?

Now, if you two will stop bickering, this conversation is about as useless as it is crap. we have 4 suspect. We lynch Zwet who has no defense, investigate Lamont, lynch him if he's scum, if not we lynch Pyro and investigate Tajo.

It's not rocket science <<

Well, I dont think its useless. Lammont keeps contradicting himself and using circular logic to make me look bad. But I see where you are going with this. Fair enough.

Unvote Vote: zwet.

Also, I'd like to make it clear, specifically for Tajo, unvoting someone who states the town PM doesn't make you town-confirmed. Scum knows who is town, therefore they can confirm any claim from a VT without being shown suspicious.

Yeah I never said that will make me 100% confirmed townie. I was trying to explain that Lammont is being very inconsistent here. He says that Zazier and Siro are confirmed town for this but that now I am scum having the vanilla PM.

See the bad logic?

It doesnt stop there:

How sure can we be that our list is really correct? Two people are being cleared solely because of the town role PM and now we have a third person that really, has to be scum, with the same info..

Lammont, your basic premise to reduce the pool of suspect was that Zazier and Siro were cleared because of the vanilla PM. Why cant Zazie and Siro be scum and I HAVE to be scum in this scenario?

[zwetschenwasser]

Hey Lammont, you should also check who got cleared by the town PM.

I have checked in great detail.

Lammont, why are you not going to vote for Pyro?

Because I have gotten town vibes from him all game.

@Tajo:

Ftr, can we lynch Zwet now?

There's no way tajo could have changed your mind so quickly about your suspecting him for you two not to be scumbuddies.

Vote:Lamont_Cranston

[Amished]

Mod: Votecount please

[Pyromaniac]

Hmmmmmm. Can lamont link me to the place zazie cleared via town PM? And amished has yet to give an explanation to missing protecting twice in a row. It is also possible that the scum have a copy of the vanilla PM.

[Amished]

Twice in a row? I told you I protected last night. The night before I was on vacation.

Pyro gets my vote for next investigation.

[Pyromaniac]

I think you could be the owner of the doll. And if am getting investigated then I will claim.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lammont, you havent still given a valid answer to this:

Out of the four of us, I am the only one that is town aligned and therefore you three ARE the scum.

Why so eager to form scumgroups? Can you explain your logic in clearing Zazie and Siro? Can you explain, now that youve reread post 3617, why the same logic isnt applied to me?

That means when confronted by a list of potential scum he is the last I would vote for (or not at all).

To get this ball rolling:

Vote Pyro

Contradiction much?

Why are you voting Pyro over zwet or me?

Now, if you two will stop bickering, this conversation is about as useless as it is crap. we have 4 suspect. We lynch Zwet who has no defense, investigate Lamont, lynch him if he's scum, if not we lynch Pyro and investigate Tajo.

It's not rocket science <<

Well, I dont think its useless. Lammont keeps contradicting himself and using circular logic to make me look bad. But I see where you are going with this. Fair enough.

Unvote Vote: zwet.

Also, I'd like to make it clear, specifically for Tajo, unvoting someone who states the town PM doesn't make you town-confirmed. Scum knows who is town, therefore they can confirm any claim from a VT without being shown suspicious.

Yeah I never said that will make me 100% confirmed townie. I was trying to explain that Lammont is being very inconsistent here. He says that Zazier and Siro are confirmed town for this but that now I am scum having the vanilla PM.

See the bad logic?

It doesnt stop there:

How sure can we be that our list is really correct? Two people are being cleared solely because of the town role PM and now we have a third person that really, has to be scum, with the same info..

Lammont, your basic premise to reduce the pool of suspect was that Zazier and Siro were cleared because of the vanilla PM. Why cant Zazie and Siro be scum and I HAVE to be scum in this scenario?

Look, I have accepted your defense as it is. You don't have to rub it in. If you ARE scum though (and the scum have the town role PM) then we are sunk and Zwet is prob-town.

The problem here is that Tajo can't be town here based on what we know about the town role PM but he's claiming a part of it with the post he referenced. This is a problem because we must have 3 scum and one of them is claiming first hand knowledge of the town role PM!

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am spooked by this entire situation. I'm going to take Tajo's basic reluctance to vote Pyro and his eagerness to vote Zwet as a sign for the safer lynch:

Vote Pyro

[zwetschenwasser]

^wishy washy scum! This ties into his attempt at making himself appear town with the shell shenanigans.