Newbie 830: Game Over

[AfroLaX]

/confirm

[AfroLaX]

I have to say that I get suspicious of My Milked Eek due to his "interesting" vote..

Vote: My Milked Eek

Get the discussion going, and my vote is open for change.

How is his vote suspicious?

Vote: DarkLightA

[AfroLaX]

I asked you "What is suspicious about his vote?", because a vote based on something arbitrary [ie. pokemon avatars] often happens on D1, you then quoted his "interesting" vote assuming I would automatically see why it was suspicious without proper reasoning. It seems to me like you were possibly trying to get a bandwagon going on someone based on a false claim.

Also, Dark seems to have gotten really jumpy and done a lot of talking since a couple of votes went against him. A lot of the things he has been saying seem to implicate him [ie. "3) I answer them if I want to answer them."]. However, they could all just be signs of noobness, in which case he is innocent & just attracting attention because he doesn't know what he is doing.

4) Same as #2, does jed appear to be buddying or hunting scum to you?

Sure, it makes it seem more likely that Jed is innocent because he is aggressively attacking people a lot, but he could just be doing that to preempt negative attention. By stating your points 2 & 4, you're in effect buddying him.

My vote still stands against Dark though.

[AfroLaX]

That post is fairly pointless,

but so is the question that led to it

. I do agree that her answer is definitely dodgy though.

I'm still holding my vote to DarkLight though, I think he's just playing dumb.

[AfroLaX]

moose200x, you're not being very logical or ethical. Just because he might have some unwarranted sense of entitlement,

it doesn't make his criticism of you any less legitimate

.

When you joined this game you in effect contracted with all other parties involved that you would, to the best of your ability, behave in such a way that is conducive to the spirit of the game & adheres to it's rules. Random voting is fine, being a titbox is not [it says so in the rules].

[AfroLaX]

Mod: As far as I can see, it has been > 48 hours since the start of the game and Belili has yet to say something. Also, Verll has said one thing and it didn't even make sense.

Please prod LurkerMcLurk/s

.

[AfroLaX]

Guys, I'm fairly confident he was being sarcastic when he said he was mafia,

however that does NOT exclude him from being so

. To be honest, moose200x would have no reason to behave the way he is if he was town. Weird tactics often expose mafia sure, but what he is doing doesn't seem to conceivably help the town, he is only trying to make himself look more innocent... Which of course, leads me [and the rest of you] to look at him funny. It's possible that he is doing what he is doing not just to serve himself, but to also take the heat off of DarkLightA [I'm not suggesting that they are working together just yet, but Dark has had a lot of focus on him & has been implicating himself a lot and now moose is suddenly throwing firecrackers in our face]. So I suppose it has worked out that way in some sense seeing as I'm less worried about Dark now, because there still remains the possibility that he is just very noob & slow

Therefore -

Unvote.

Vote: moose200x

[AfroLaX]

Before I die let me throw some bones out here so that the town may continue to use the knowledge I gained as a tool for future lynchings. I have yet to lose on mafia, please, don't let this be the first loss for me!

So you're pretty much explicitly stating that we ought not to lynch you because you're definitely innocent and you're oh-so-pro. Tell me, how is that not the epitome of scummy behaviour [on top of everything else you've said/done]?

My vote stands, anyone got a hammer?

[AfroLaX]

B) I am here for one thing, that's to win. And as mafia I promised my partners I'd do everything in my power to help them win.

Then what is that all about? He explains it as a JOKE.. Does it look like it, or is it something that a scum mistake he's just trying to shuffle away?

lol! Google: Sarcasm. Though, that post is actually one of the main reasons I'm maintaining my vote for him [For reference: In addition to the constant appealing to emotion & the "u guys r so stupid i wana be replaced' line]. It looks to me like he was trying to get this idea across: "I'll blatantly say that I'm mafia and therefore they will think I obviously cannot be mafia". Which to me is a really scummy tactic, even in the conventional sense of the word.

Dark can't be serious about not understanding sarcasm, can he?

Keeping up the FoS: Dark

But my vote still stands on moose200x.

[AfroLaX]

Sorry for double post but I re-read the thread a lot more closely and -

3) I don't really think we should lynch you right now. I'd rather wait until you post something more of value and some others chime in.

Eek seems very hesitant to lynch moose200x under the pretense that 'there is insufficient information', but he is still making a case against him. Because it is the first lynch, he might just be pro-town trying to extend the day, but it could also be a serious scumtell. He is FoS'ing without hammering, this could be a sign of a partnership.

[AfroLaX]

Bah, ninja'd.

Eek: If moose [and possibly yourself] don't turn out to be scum, then I'm going to be HIGHLY suspicious of both DarkLightA & CSL.

FoS: moose

He seems to believe that he has authority, is this a scum move?

From the looks of it, I think so.

Let's be frank, that logic of DarkLight's is absolutely pathetic & CSL is agreeing with it in an effort to get some quick votes on moose.

[AfroLaX]

Now, one can assume that if I am town that both mafia jumped on me already. Please keep that in mind.

DarkLightA, that isn't a scum mistake that moose200x is making, it's a noob logic mistake. That reasoning doesn't work, but it does make me think that he's a little more innocent than he was before he said that [of course he could just be tricking us, but the implication that he is town is quite subtle].

Jed, Maemuki & AlMaster: What are your thoughts on this & on moose in general?

Btw, Where on Earth is Belili?

[AfroLaX]

I'm not as eager to lynch moose as I was earlier, but I still think that he is the top scum candidate.

CSL, that's

very

appeal-to-emotion-ish, rather just answer Eek's question [ie. give reasons for your ladder].

I think that Eek might be on to something, but for now I still maintain my vote against moose & my FoS against Dark.

[AfroLaX]

Nah DarkLight, people only accuse other people of lurking if they don't post within a 24 hour (or greater) period, which is fairly reasonable.

Also I remember reading somewhere that 'talking off topic' is apparently scummy behaviour, so yeah...

OT:

Why not just retract your vote and say that it's a bit early for L-1

Scum buddies??

Not really a tell, I think Almaster was just giving an hypothetically plausible reason that any given person could use in order to retract their vote at a time like this.

[AfroLaX]

How about you reread and isolate my posts but pretend that you lynched me and I was town. That is what is going to happen anyways and it would allow me to help town out by being able to post some thoughts

and feelings

.

I understand the case agianst me is VERY strong. I would just like to be able to help us win the game.

Everybody else, feel free to do the same.

Pretend I am town

and I was lynched then reread my posts and let's see what we can come up with

Note on bolded: lol

Note on underlined: No. We aren't really interested in your feelings.

On a more serious note though, if you are/were lynched and do/did turn up as town, a whole lot of your posts wouldn't actually make sense.

A lot of your posts seem like something that would be said exclusively by scum

. I haven't really gleaned much by reading your posts in isolation & assuming you are a dead townie.

[AfroLaX]

Just to clarify, the 'note on bold' & 'note on underlined' were just jokes. Look, I said "On a more serious note..." after that to imply that I was joking, but yeah...

Moose, you're playing in a newb game, you can't expect me to be God. I personally find a lot of your posts fairly incriminating and IF you turn up town, it won't have made sense for you to say some of the things you said. I think that's a reasonable conclusion?

I don't really care if I look suspicious if he is confirmed as town on lynch, because I really think that he is scum. In my mind, it's worth the risk.

[AfroLaX]

I do have one question: If he is lynched and turns up town, what exactly is it that makes me so suspicious?

I've been drilling him fairly relentlessly since I suspected him of being scum and basically he's just been throwing fire back, except with crappier reasoning - which in turn has made me quite convinced that he is scum.

You said that if he turned up town, he would be right and that I would be in a bad spot. He simply said that I'm going to look very stupid, not that I'm going to look suspicious. What exactly are you trying to pull here?

Also, you've presented us with what appears to be a false dilemma to me [that might not be the case, but please show me how it's not].

If moose is lynched

If he turns town Afro will look really scummy

If he flips scum Afro is obvtown

1) If he is town, why am I scummy?

2) If he is scum, why am I town?

Lastly, I'm going to stick to my guns and if for some reason I am implicated if he turns town, I'll deal with that then. I really believe that he is scum.

[AfroLaX]

Bah. Ninja'd again - but yeah, everything Eek said + 1.

[AfroLaX]

I just woke up and there are 7 new pages...

Anyway, here is my top scumdidates list:

1) CSL (He has used a whole lot of crap logic, appealed to emotion & attacked me

in defense of moose

)

2) Moose ("Intentionally" scummy behaviour, no vanilla should do this)

3) Dark (Just incredibly noob. It's difficult to tell if he's playing us or if he is really a scrub. He didn't understand VERY basic sarcasm in one moose's post which wasn't really obscure or subtle .:. I FoS'd him [this is directed at Eek].

4) Mae (Her not voting looks incredibly suspicious, she keeps pulling the "I don't know" line & hasn't really posted much beyond that, which is very evasive behaviour)

SpongeBob, I read through all the posts since you joined and I'd like to point some things out to you:

Just so you two know: I'm pretty sure exactly one of you is scum. Y'all voted for each other pretty early, moose has been pretty dang scummy and CSL has been uncomfortably buddy-buddy with me this whole time. If the person who gets lynched flips town I'm going for the other one next.

This really makes me want to FoS you, I think Jed already pointed it out earlier. This is a false dilemma, whether you believe what you are saying or not. Just because one of them MIGHT turn up town, it doesn't necessarily mean that the other one will definitely be scum. Presenting us with that course of action makes you look very suspicious.

I've gotten slightly suspicious of Jed, but I'm not super-worried about him right now.

Why exactly are you suspicious of Jed?

Moose, Dark, Mae: I'd like your opinions on SpongeBob & Almaster [aka LurkMaster].

I see CSL has moved fully onto the defensive in an attempt to preserve himself instead of focusing on hunting for someone who he thinks is suspicious. That to me, combined with his use of horrific logic, buddying of moose, appeal to emotion, etc. leads me to think we've got one of the scum.

I see he has posted again, attacking SpongeBob's "role-claim". I really don't see how that casts suspicion on SpongeBob because his reason/s for role-claiming are very WIFOM'y.

Unvote

Vote: CSL

[AfroLaX]

FoS: Moose

Toning down from a straight vote.

@Moose:

1) You need to remember that SpongeBob thought that BOTH of you were scum, so in the bigger picture for him, I suppose it really wouldn't matter which one of you got lynched. However, he has said some very scummy things recently so I'd like to probe him a bit more and see his reactions.

2) You're 100% correct about Mae, however the same logic applies to AlMaster, if not to a greater degree.

Almaster + Mae, perhaps PBPA on your top 2 scumdidates is in order?

[AfroLaX]

ROFL

At this point, given what SBSS has said since he joined the thread & especially what he is saying against moose now... Well, it makes me lol but on a more serious note, I can't justify pressuring anyone else with my vote right now as much as I can him. Therefore:

Vote: SpongeBobShortShorts

[AfroLaX]

So given the clustered posts, ranting, and generally incoherent or CrapLogic-based responses... I take it that SBSS doesn't handle vote pressure too well.

Um, I know this might be a bit far-fetched but SBSS appears to be in a bit of a panic so I wouldn't be surprised if he slipped up... I'd like some clarification on the following:

This game is an open set up F11 game. We have a 1 in 4 chance of using any of the following set ups.

a. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, and 5 vanilla townies
b. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, and 7 vanilla townies
c. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, and 6 vanilla townies
d. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, and 6 vanilla townies

I mean killing Eek was my idea and I said I'd take the fall for it because my partner's a

roleblocker

and therefore more necessary.

Point: Only two setup possibilities contain roleblockers.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP:

Expect a VLA from me for about ~18 hours. I'm going to sleep now and then I have university for a large chunk of the day tomorrow.

My vote against SBSS stands.

[AfroLaX]

HoS: Moose

Quick hammer + "omg ur town? I can't believe that lol" response. In addition to all the other dodgy things I've accused him of since the beginning.

FoS: Almaster & Mae

The Lurkathon needs to end.

I don't intend on casting a vote until both Almaster & Mae have done a substantial amount of talking.

[AfroLaX]

HoS: Moose

Quick hammer + "omg ur town? I can't believe that lol" response. In addition to all the other dodgy things I've accused him of since the beginning.

If you were town and somebody claimed that they were cop and had a guilty on you would that not make them seem scum to you?

This defense is severely lacking. You hammered down on someone who claimed to have investigated you, which implies that you want to survive. It's not necessarily about him being scummy. From a pro-town perspective, if a guy claims cop & says you are scum, you shouldn't be worried - because unless he is pulling a very risky move, he is obvscum if you flip town, therefore you rather try establish what is going on [and extend to day to find his partner] than quick-lynch. I'm sure through more probing & pressure, he would have backed off from his claim & if he didn't and you got voted off... Then so what? He was almost definitely going to be voted off the next round. While in hindsight this play-out would have lost us the game [assuming you were pro-town & got lynched D2], from your perspective it should have been fine to trade off because you were sure he was scum. Short days hurt town, you made a day short in a bid to survive before a bandwagon hit you. Therefore I find it difficult to digest your defense that you hammered him after like a few hours of Day 2 "because he seemed scummy" - I think you're just looking for an excuse for your quick-lynch because whether SBSS was a cop or not, you were going to get lynched.

Anyway, I think I was

more

than reasonably justified in hammering CSL. He attacked me with terrifically bad logic, defended you when the heat was on & he said a bunch of dumb + AtE things. Also, it had been 22 pages, most people were fairly sure that we had at least one of them - and if CSL flipped scum, moose would've been the next lynch. Moose ended Day 2 incredibly early and went "omg cant believe he was just a bad townie lol". I don't see how my actions & reasoning make me suspicious, especially over him & the lurkage. Darklight seems to have gone a bit lurkish after he almost got bandwagoned on D1.

However, I'm still unwilling to lay down a vote until more talking happens from the other 3. Even though I'm very suspicious of Moose, it'll look pretty stupid if he gets lynched [and flips town] & both scum just sat lurking. There are 2 scum alive in this game, which means that even if Moose is one, there is still another here.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP: VLA - Got university now for the next few hours.

[AfroLaX]

Uh.

Look you epic fail of a mafia player.

Ad hominem.

but if your not FUCKING SCUM THEN YOU LIKE SPONGEBOB ARE THE WORST PLAYERS IN THIS DAMN GAME.

More Ad hominem [Not to mention false dilemma].

I AM SITTING HERE AND CANNOT BEILEVE THIS ARGUMENT!

I guess this is his way of refuting a fairly well-reasoned idea. I assume you guys all see what's wrong with this...

I DIDNT THINK HE WAS SCUMMY I KNEW HE WAS. HE LIED TO ME. HE SAID HE WAS COP AND GOT A GUILTY WHICH I KNOW IS A LIE.

I'm not arguing with this [though just because he wasn't cop, it doesn't mean he was scum - that would be false dilemma], I'm simply saying that it's his purported reason for quick-lynching SBSS &

it does not sufficiently justify it

[See: My previous post].

THESE NEWBIE GAMES FAIL CUZ OF IDIOTS LIKE YOU.

More Ad hominem.

WTF IS YOUR DEAL? WHY NOT PLAY THE GAME WITH SOME DAMN KNOWLEDGE AND TRY TO HELP THE TEAM.

So I take it he is implying that I must be playing without knowledge of some kind & against 'the team' [meaning town] & with such an irrational style of reasoning that he cannot understand me...

All this,

solely

because I accuse him of being scum.

That is utterly ridiculous.

For proof, see: Any post I've made, honestly...

SPONGEBOB COST US THE GAME, NOT ME.

Spongebob did cost yes, but the game is by no means over.

Conclusion:

1) Ad hominem (3 instances).
2) Appealing to Emotion [nerdraging in a bid to prove innocence].
3) Avoiding dealing with actual accusation [By trying to distract/deal with wrong issues/attack player].
4) CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
5)

Extensive

use of CrapLogic™

My response: YAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH!!

I would vote him, but as I'm now saying for the 3rd time; More talking from the lurkers please.

[AfroLaX]

His argumentation is sound. He also has a point when he says you should refute his claims that you feel are unjustified and construct a case against him, instead of just going 'he could be scum'.

UnFoS: AlmasterGM

HoS: Moose & Dark

[AfroLaX]

lol, ok. So now we're getting somewhere.

Game On:

It seems as though at this stage I'm addressing Maemuki only, because the other two have their minds set on Almaster & myself being scum.

Mae, once again you're going to be on the spot here because whoever you think is the scummiest is probably going to be voted out. If you choose me or almaster, moose will definitely & darklight will almost definitely wagon with you. If you choose one of them, I will definitely & almaster will almost definitely wagon with you.

I personally believe that Moose is scum & that DarkLight is most likely to be scum. Therefore I would be happiest priority-voting Moose. Almaster is in agreement with me, but I assume he wants it to be vice versa - I'm sure that we can decide who to vote for though.

I can't speak for the other side, all I know is that they think both Almaster & I are scum.

To refute their case:

1) I've only ever demonstrated a pro-town orientation
2) I've only ever used proper reasoning, I haven't tried to trick anyone nor have I said anything stupid [Note: They might bring up some of my JOKES, but it's fairly obvious that they are jokes, please don't take them to be serious - they were claimed to be jokes each time I made one]
3) I haven't actually said or done anything particularly suspicious to be honest.
4) Almaster's few posts that he has made all make sense and all seem to demonstrate a pro-town attitude. His logic is completely sound in his PBPA of DarkLight.
5) The only thing they really have against us is that Almaster lurked for a while. This made me suspicious of him too, until he displayed an obviously pro-town attitude with good reasoning.

To attack them:

1) They've appealed to emotion whenever the pressure is on them.
2) They've used horrific logic in many posts to try convince people.
3) They dodge/avoid a lot of our questions.
4) Dark cries noob and starts lurking whenever the heat is on him.
5) They are claiming that the fact that Almaster thinks I'm more likely to be innocent than you is a 'nice read cuz they scumbuddies'. The reason that is retarded is because you were lurking and I was helping the town. Therefore, obviously you will come up as more suspicious than me after his two initial targets. It's a WIFOM at best. If anything, I think that if Almaster & I were scum he would have listed me in the middle to avoid such a stupid accusation.

Side Notes:

I did not randomly HoS DarkLight. At first I thought it was moose + someone else, but I couldn't tell who. Almaster's argument is what convinced me [combined with my own re-read of his posts in isolation].

Please compare our well-thought out and reasoned posts to their AtE, CrapLogic, evading questions, generally retarded other stuff, etc.

Town have no reason to use bad logic...

Mae, if you are convinced by what I've said here, then you, myself & Almaster need to come to some sort of an agreement on who to vote for. If you aren't, I'll gladly answer any questions you have [unlike moose + DL], but I'm fairly confident that this should be sufficient evidence?

I would not normally come to this sort of aggressive conclusion, but in case you hadn't noticed - both Dark & Moose are pushing for a lynch on either me or Almaster and since I know I'm innocent & I'm fairly sure he is too, I can't really allow that to happen...

It's highly unlikely that you, Mae, are scum at this stage because there is too much buddying going on amongst the rest of us. That necessarily leads me to believe that DarkLight MUST be the other scum, so I'm actually fine with voting for either one. The only difference is that my form of buddying to Almaster is simply based upon mounds of solid reasoning - not just one little technical 'im-looking-for-anything' quote and some other crappy arguments.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP Ninja'd.

[AfroLaX]

Firstly, I don't believe in using meta - Even if I did meta you, all it would prove is that you apply a consistent play-style... but just because you applied it previously, it does not necessarily mean you are applying it here or that you will apply it in the future ["Fallacy" of Induction - in a practical sense]. If you could have directed me to a game where you are scum & a game where you are town, I might have considered it... Except for the fact that you said this:

You guys meta game yet? Have you noticed that in every game i'm town I am always alive late into the game (minus the modkill) that's due to my playstyle. I could explain how it works but im not giving up my secrets.

Now to refute you. If the claimed cop is infact a cop I am lynched the next day. If he is mafia I am cleared. (then nk'd)


Now, if you are the doctor and someone says they are the docotr, would you kill them?

A perfect example of shocking logic [in addition to the appeal to meta]. I'd argue that this is an example of a False Analogy. You are assuming that because a certain strategy applies to one power role, that it applies to others just because they are also power roles.

The point is, a doctor isn't a cop so obviously the same reasoning doesn't apply. A doctor claim is an inherently defensive claim, whereas a cop claim is much more aggressive because it also says something about

other

players, not just the self. Naturally because it involves different information, you need to approach it with a different strategy.

Also notice that in this particular example, it requires that you

are

the power role, not that the power role

exists

in the game.

Lastly, a cop in this game setup is definitely sane, so there's absolutely no point in claiming cop if you are scum unless you are in LYLO [or if claiming cop and selling out your partner would put you in LYLO - Though that's still incredibly risky because there might be a real cop who will call you out].

Your justification for lynching SBSS early was this:

"SBSS claims cop. I am town & he claims I am scum. Since the cop in this setup must be sane, he must be lying. Therefore, he is scum."

Which is a false dilemma [fallacy number 3], because the player may well just be another townie. Also, in my opinion it is much

less

likely that scum will claim cop in such a simple setup, whereas a townie might just be risk-loving.

Anyway,

I just say that you two seem to be on a team of some sort, scum or town.

Hahaha, I lol'd IRL when I read this.

The only decision left in my mind is which one we're going to vote for first.

[AfroLaX]

Huh?

No, I am not mafia. You are the mafia.

[AfroLaX]

There's a reason I resorted to giving a preschool response... I can't believe you actually thought that you could point that one particular instance out as though it was something detrimental to my character or argument. It's fairly obvious that I only did it because you chose not to acknowledge the essay that shows why your defense is inadequate [and I was "responding in kind"]. It's like the 3rd time [maybe more] that you've ignored a well-constructed argument in favour of trying to red-herring us.

[AfroLaX]

It's very easy to say that you weren't implying someone was scum ad hoc [especially after they shred your reasoning to pieces]. It's also the same as when you said "I think you're on a team, but I didn't say which one", after blatantly implying that we were working together in a scum effort. Almaster has a point though, you should not have supplied a PBPA on him, implicating him, when you

claim

that you think he is town - You should have rather done a PBPA on the people you think are suspicious. You were trying to make him look suspicious, which leads me to believe that you were just pulling a scum maneuver.

Some of DarkLightA's most recent posts are actually ridiculously scummy.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP: Please distinguish between doing a PBPA in an attempt to implicate someone you think is scum [e.g. building a case against them] & doing a PBPA to try incriminate them and when it doesn't work, you back off claiming you were giving a [completely pointless] PBPA on someone you think is town.

[AfroLaX]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDWAGON!!

Vote: DarkLightA

[AfroLaX]

Almaster, allow me to revise that statement for you:

SCUM BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDWAGON!!

[AfroLaX]

Hey guys, well played to everyone who didn't cost

Almaster, you made the correct decisions but moose + dark (and CSL/SBSS to a lesser extent) cost you in the end. Your play was the right one in siding with me against them, you couldn't have known I was going to be especially sneaky over their general bad play.

Thok - to justify the roleblock choices:

Basically this is the thing - I knew that either there was a cop & a doc, or there was nothing.

Jed & Eek were both obvtown and experienced players, so theoretically they would have been my choice blocks if I wasn't slashing them because they would be most likely to use their ability correctly. I know if Jed was cop I'm fairly confident he would have investigated Mae, which would have been a huge issue.

Myself & Mae were both obviously excluded from being blocked because we were the scum. Jed & Eek were both obvtown, yes. BUT - they were obv vanilla. I thought it unlikely that experienced players would expose themselves so recklessly if they had a PR, so I figured they are just VTs and if there are power roles, they belong to the other guys. Now moose & CSL both claimed VT [not that that means anything], but the nature of their argumentation sorta implied that at very least, they weren't cops. SBSS was a replacement & got himself lynched ASAP through very bad reasoning so he was never an issue.

My potential targets for block during night 1 were: Darklight the noob who was the least of my worries because he would have almost definitely used it on someone he was accusing [like moose]. I would argue that Moose was to an external perspective vanilla or scum, but he was vanilla from my perspective because I knew who the scum were [his playstyle was far too centered on himself for him to be a PR]. Jed & Almaster are the only two choices remaining. Mae, Myself [Scum], Eek [NK] & CSL [lynch] are obviously excluded from this. At this stage if I'm not mistaken, belili hadn't been replaced yet - I was willing to bet that if a replacement didn't come, it wasn't worth blocking that person. This leaves me with the choice between Jed & Almaster. Now Almaster was sending blatant doctor signals in my opinion, but they could have also been cop signals. He was posting very rarely, keeping attention off of himself & when he was posting, he was posting things that made sense. Jed on the other hand, was being incredibly aggressive which to me implies that he had nothing to work with beyond the information given in the thread.

That is for night 1. By night two basically we had SBSS & CSL lynched, Mae & I were scum, Jed & Eek were dead, moose was reckless and darklight is a scrub who suspected Almaster. Almaster was being intelligent & quiet, so I think he was a fairly obvious choice. Since no new information had arisen that would have indicated to someone else being the cop, I figured that if there were power roles, Almaster was most likely to be one of them. If there was a doc, I'm sure he would have almost definitely protected Jed on the 2nd night, so there was too much benefit in blocking Almaster. Though on Night 2, I was fairly confident there weren't any pro-town PRs because only ONE person was behaving as though they had one [and there had to necessarily be 2].

The other option I was considering was letting Jed live and slashing Almaster whilst roleblocking Jed. Jed might have been worth keeping alive because he was very assertive & was pointing fingers [especially at moose], however he latched onto Mae during D2 - Once SBSS flipped town, I figured that Jed would jump straight back onto Mae on D3 and throw a reckless vote that would bandwagon - leaving me to fend for myself on D4.

My reasoning isn't always perfect So I could be overlooking something quite important, but from my perspective Almaster was the correct block on both nights.

My last big post where I pointed out 3 fallacies that moose had committed, that really reeked of scum [especially because the 'false dilemma' one wasn't actually true - it made a good case, but moose was justified in hammering SBSS - though I would still argue that he wasn't justified in hammering him that early]. I do think that if the other townies hadn't cost so much, Almaster would have picked up on me - Though IMO that's the only thing I've done this game that could have been construed as a mistake. If anyone thinks I did anything else that jeopardized my win, please point it out to me because I'm still learning.

Also, moose was right about me initially but for completely the wrong reasons. When he said that "Which of course, leads me [and the rest of you] to look at him funny." was "Rallying the team together or laying hints to teammates. Either way. scum."

That's pretty shocking. I simply said that because, well, his playstyle is/was terribad & 4/7 [excluding him & me] were querying him or voting for him at that stage. So I wouldn't argue that I made a mistake, I'd argue that moose just pulled something out of thin air.

[AfroLaX]

EBWOP: Eek, sorry I had to kill you but after I saw your notes, I realised you were by a long shot my biggest threat. You had far too much perspective and yes I could have played into your style of thinking, but it wasn't worth the risk [especially with Mae's suspicious lurkage]. I know it's bad manners to kill the IC on night 1, but business is business

I know I could have talked away the "Anyone got a hammer?" comment though - Simply by saying that I just said it to apply further pressure to see if he would crack.

[AfroLaX]

I agree, if I wasn't scum I wouldn't have looked for something to dig at. However:

My argument was never that he was wrong in hammering SBSS, but rather that purposefully ended the Day phase early. It was a very scummy argument, but I think I defended it quite well. It seems almost a bit WIFOM'y because I was supposing that he could have had an ulterior motive to the one he was suggesting. I then went on to explain that if he was town, the correct play would have been to not hammer. Whether that's true or not is up for debate, but this was the position I took in order to implicate him:

This defense is severely lacking. You hammered down on someone who claimed to have investigated you, which implies that you want to survive. It's not necessarily about him being scummy. From a pro-town perspective, if a guy claims cop & says you are scum, you shouldn't be worried - because unless he is pulling a very risky move, he is obvscum if you flip town, therefore you rather try establish what is going on [and extend to day to find his partner] than quick-lynch. I'm sure through more probing & pressure, he would have backed off from his claim & if he didn't and you got voted off... Then so what? He was almost definitely going to be voted off the next round. While in hindsight this play-out would have lost us the game [assuming you were pro-town & got lynched D2],

from your perspective it should have been fine to trade off because you were

sure

he was scum

. Short days hurt town, you made a day short in a bid to survive before a bandwagon hit you. Therefore I find it difficult to digest your defense that you hammered him after like a few hours of Day 2 "because he seemed scummy" - I think you're just looking for an excuse for your quick-lynch because whether SBSS was a cop or not, you were going to get lynched.

The argument basically says this: The right play would have been fore moose to assume that SBSS was definitely scum and thus extend the day for as long as possible even if it means suicide.

Of course the argument doesn't really work, because the next day is made short by there being a 'definite scum' lynch amongst a whole lot of other factors, but the argument was portrayed in such a way that it would be hard to pick up on additional consequences that actually make it a fairly weak argument.

CrapLogic wins games, I'm telling you