/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[Herodotus]

There is too much support for a BaB lynch for me to believe there aren't/weren't multiple scum on his wagon. Not that this makes him town, but I'm more interested in the wagon.

This is a really confusing statement. What sort of interest do you have in the wagon? Do you think BnB is a good lynch or not? If not, why are you not actively trying to persuade the town elsewhere?

What I meant was:
I'm not sure whether BaB is town or scum.
I'm pretty sure that among the people voting him now or having unvoted him recently, there are more than one scum. I feel it best to scumhunt from among the voters.

I have pointed out a few people, but I was having trouble finding a particular player who was most likely scum. Now I have discovered one. Read the reason Thesp offered for his suspicions of BaB. Read posts 90-103. He is severely misrepresenting by attributing a motive (expoliting others' suspicions) to BaB's play based on information that came out only after the vote.

[Xylthixlm]

I can't believe I'm doing this

unvote

I'm curious about this - whyfor?

The sarcastic "if I come up scum" bullshit feels inexplicably townish. Also, I'd like to see BAB's thoughts on players who aren't lurking.

[mith]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

BridgesAndBaloons: 9 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, iamausername, inHimshallibe, roflcopter, SerialClergyman, Thesp, Yosarian2)
elvis_knits: 3 (BridgesAndBaloons, Kmd4390, zu_Faul)
ekiM: 2 (populartajo, VP Baltar)
Claus: 1 (alexhans)
Thesp: 1 (Herodotus)
Yosarian2: 1 (Claus)

Not Voting: 3 (Ojanen, Shabba, Xylthixlm)

[Yosarian2]

He was pressured and forced to claim. If he claimed any of the other roles in the mod post #2, he would have been forced to demonstrate the ability he was claiming, plus he would have been at a

high risk of a counterclaim.

I don't understand why you think a scum claiming vanilla is unlikely there; it's basically what I would expect to do in that situation.

it is possible that a role may appear more than once.

ANYONE COUNTERCLAIMING AT ANY TIME IS TERRIBLE PLAY. I WOULDN'T DO IT AND WOULD BE PISSED OFF AT ANYONE WHO DID

I agree. However, since scum don't know the role distributions at all right now, I expect they would be reluctent to claim any non-vanilla role. If they claim a role that someone else has, and there otherwise aren't duplicates, they'll likely be caught out in massclaim time.

Yeah, I don't really have a good vibe from Shabba at the moment. It also kind of freaks me out the way multiple people came out of the woodwork to attack me for either no reason at all or apparently just because I was voting her.

You obviously aren't pushing very hard. I even forgot who you were voting. This is NOT consistent with your meta.

(eyebrow) It's not in my meta to vote for a lurker and leave my vote there for a while, occasionally mentioing that I'm specifically keeping my vote on them because they are lurking?

I strongly suspect you don't fully understand my town meta if you really think that's true, KMD.

[Herodotus]

_elvis_knits_

,

_VP_Baltar__

,

The pleasure of your attendance on the wagon of

__Thesp__

is formally requested.

---

@VPB: The wagon on ekim can resume if/when he comes back from his V/LA and doesn't answer our questions. In fact, I'll join it if he doesn't.

@Elvis: Do you believe BaB was exploiting the suspicion resulting from the number of scum discussion? If so, which players' suspicions was he exploiting? If not, how do you feel about Thesp's reason for wanting BaB lynched?

[Ojanen]

Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?

3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner.

I had missed that explanation.
But I actually agree with Herodotus in that the sentence doesn't add up. Looking at the timeline, what was he trying to exploit? What was your exact reason of voting BaB originally? What was the reason you didn't want to tell why you voted for him at that time?

[Ojanen]

Thesp appears that he may bussing, and this is the strongest point for BaB-scum as opposed to BaB-townie-who-is-reacting-poorly. But I think he's a better lynch.

But I'm also not quite following why Herodotus would suspect it's bussing. Elaboration please?

[VP Baltar]

Herodotus, while producing interesting stationary, is utterly confusing me. Why are you using Thesp hypo-bussing as a scumpoint against BnB?

[Xylthixlm]

Read the reason Thesp offered for his suspicions of BaB.

Quote or post # please.

[roflcopter]

herod appears to be pre-emptively establishing a phony reason to attack thesp after bridges flips scum.

[elvis_knits]

_elvis_knits_

,

_VP_Baltar__

,

The pleasure of your attendance on the wagon of

__Thesp__

is formally requested.

---

@VPB: The wagon on ekim can resume if/when he comes back from his V/LA and doesn't answer our questions. In fact, I'll join it if he doesn't.

@Elvis: Do you believe BaB was exploiting the suspicion resulting from the number of scum discussion? If so, which players' suspicions was he exploiting? If not, how do you feel about Thesp's reason for wanting BaB lynched?

I was not aware that your one vote on Thesp meant there was a wagon

I am not sure that what Thesp posted means what you're saying it means.

3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

This is awful. If he just wanted to exploit suspicion, he probably would have voted KMD (unless KMD is his buddy.) No one had stated any suspicions of Elvis over the number of scum issue before BaB's vote, and only one person was voting for her. Your idea is that he left the wagon that was at 6 in order to exploit suspicions that had not yet been stated on someone who was at 1?

I'm not exactly sure, because I find Thesp's comment a little confusing, but I think that Thesp means that "BaB was trying to exploit MY (elvis's) suspicion on the number of people (the slip, the 4 scum + 1 traitor thing)." Which means Thesp thinks BaB saw my suspicion and thought he could use it to make me look scummy. At least that is how I took it. It is not dependent on other people having expressed suspicion on me. We should probably get Thesp to clarify.

[elvis_knits]

but if you unvote BAB on the strength of a vanilla claim... you are scum. Ahem, KMD.

1) Why would Bridge claim vanilla as scum? It makes no sense.
2) Didn't your vanilla claim save your ass in the Family Guy mini? Why haven't you brought that up knowing that I was in that game, saw Llama clear a claimed vanilla, and saw you eventually flip vanilla?

1) So he doesn't have to give results? So his buddies can buss him and look town? So he could make this WIFOM argument?
2) In family guy, that was a different situation, there were character claims, which helps significantly more than just having a vanilla claim. Even if scum have safe claims you can see if the role and the character match and stuff. Even so, you should go back look at my claim, I did not expect it to save me, and I even said that dying wouldn't be too bad for the town. Did I force you guys to lynch me in that game because we should always lynch vanilla -- of course not, since I knew my allignment! I do not know BaB's.

Also, tell me what kind of claim you would go through on the lynch of. BEcause if you won't lynch a vanilla claim, who are you going to lynch?

[elvis_knits]

Also, I am curious, as a general question to people:

As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?

I know I have claimed vanilla as scum. I'm not sure if I have ever done it under pressure of a bandwagon, but I know I have done it at massclaim time.

I think kmd's theory that scum wouldn't claim vanilla is wrong, but perhaps I am wrong. I would like input here.

[Xylthixlm]

As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?

I know I have claimed vanilla as scum. I'm not sure if I have ever done it under pressure of a bandwagon, but I know I have done it at massclaim time.

If I'm bandwagoned to a claim as scum, I've done something seriously wrong.

Regardless, yes, I tend to claim vanilla.

[alexhans]

meh... just posting to say that my post may take me a little while longer... But I'm doing a good analysys (saving stuff in excel) so I'll have it later on... (plus, I'm tired too )

patience please...

[VP Baltar]

As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?

Yep. You were witness to my most recent time. It was quite effective too.

[roflcopter]

i feel like we're just twiddling our thumbs here. bridges screamed at us to wait and then what... went on a lurkerhunt?

we have the scumteam, folks: bridges, herod, kmd, claus, maybe username too
judging my the surety with which bridges and kmd insisted on a 4 man team, one of herod and username would be a traitor.

lets bag and tag 'em

[Herodotus]

As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?

There was one marathon game where I was planning to, but it ended up being unnecessary. That was in lylo, though.

Read the reason Thesp offered for his suspicions of BaB.

Quote or post # please.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 98#1813798
Claus: "3- I'm interested in your scumread of BaB, would you elaborate?"
Thesp: "3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people."

@Ojanen and VP Baltar: I was planning to explain this later, as I'd prefer Thesp was the lynch, because he is more likely scum, and to make things more clear.
But the question is essentially whether Thesp is trying to get his scumbuddy lynched, or trying to get a townie lynched. I think it is slightly more likely the former. For one thing, he is talking about BaB as if he is certain that he will flip as scum. I also think he wants credibility plus the death of at least one townie (me) more than he wants a mislynch.

@Elvis: I am reading 100 and 102 over and over. It does not come across as exploitation to me. But you're right that we can expect clarification.

[Xylthixlm]

Post removed. See rules regarding asking questions of the Mod.

[inHimshallibe]

Re-reading right now.

[Xylthixlm]

Post removed. See rules regarding asking questions of the Mod.

[populartajo]

Tajo is in da house.

I am really furious with Charter right now because of how he seems to be completely missing all of my posts, and I really can't respond to him right now or I'll just be mean.

This post is either a sincere frustration position or a very good faked frustrated post. BaB, how experienced would you consider yourself?

I'm not feeling scum from BAB.

What makes you think this?

164-166 is ol town Elvis.

@PT: Because I didn't see any scumtells from any of the players with votes. I didn't see any from Ojanen, either, but I figured a random vote from myself was unquantifiably more likely to hit scum than a random vote from a player of unknown alignment.

wat?

Thesp 112 is a very strong post. It so goes against the popular options.

In what ways? The first 2/3rds looks like filler, and I don't see anything radical in the last third.

I should have clarified. In 112, Thesp says :"For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either. " is a very potent opinion, something town is more likely to do than scum.

So by meta, Elvis is more aggressive when town. That doesn't mean she wouldn't fake it as scum.

Yeah, she could be scum doing that. The basic point is that she is less likely to do it as scum. Why are you so eager to discard that piece of meta?

Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things.

Like what?

Like answers to my questions.

kmd, what made you think there were only 16 players?

No clue. Can I blame lack of sleep?

KMD, why are you playing like this? Why so ironic? How many of your points in your attacks in 179 would you consider a stretch?

A question: In KMD's several references to a traitor, is it possible that he is trying to communicate some sort of information about the makup of the scumteam to the traitor? (I'm assuming from the role PMs on page 1 that the mafia members know who the traitor is, but the traitor only knows who the GF is.)

If you thought Elvis was scummier than KMD, then what does this post accomplish?

Posterior pages include charter-yos-rolf-elvis well reasoned attacks againt bab that fails to defend himself properly.

Shaba's 266 is scummy as hell.

Interesting reactions. Good to know charter is in the same boat. Xyl joins the shabba hate later. Rolf uses the newbie and the bab wagon excuse. So,rolf, do you think post 266 is more prob town or more prob scum? And Hero subtly defends Shabba in a lukerhunt. Hero, why didnt you vote iamusername before?

Vanilla claim from Bab. Meh. And stalls the game. And lurkerhunts instead of analysing his wagon. Great.

Saw the claim. I'm probably going to take flak for this, but I don't see scum fakeclaiming vanilla near a lynch on Day 1. Unvote, Vote EK

Dude, thats terrible reasoning. Vanilla claim from scum is not weird at all. Would you have preferred a power role claim? And even worse, why does a vanilla claim makes you revote EK?

Claus is very protective of Bab. Claus, what do you think of bab, what is preventing you from suspecting him?

But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

Wat? Why would you consider the possibility of being scum?

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

And you keep doing it.

Why is Hero avoiding the bab wagon and voting Thesp using babscum as an excuse?

I'm pretty sure that among the people voting him now or having unvoted him recently, there are more than one scum. I feel it best to scumhunt from among the voters.

Why do you think it is a good idea to hunt the wagon when you arent even sure about bab. Why are you not sure of bab being town or scum?

Mod, Mikeprod plz

Bab, instead of hunting lurkers, make a scumlist. My vote is waiting for you, so you have max two days to change or confirm my suspicions.


In the meanwhile,

Unvote, Vote : Herodotus.

[Xylthixlm]

What makes you think this?

Posts 155 and 159 were what I was referring to when I said that, iirc. BAB just felt like a frustrated townie trying to explain his actions and not having it take. It has that "why can't you see that it's not scummy?" vibe.

He hasn't really been so impressive since then.

Bab, instead of hunting lurkers, make a scumlist. My vote is waiting for you, so you have max two days to change or confirm my suspicions.

I'm not putting a hard limit like "two days" but BAB does need to make a real scumlist, soon, to avoid my vote going back on.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

GAHHHHHHH

Okay so if I had time, I could show you guys this, but this time of year is waterpolo hell weeks and I'm super tired because of it and quite frankly, i forgot about this thread until just now, right before I'm going to sleep. Happens every year around this time.

I have not read any thing since my last post and I can't, I'm really sorry. I'm not stalling, no matter my alignment, me not making a post today is bad play, I hope you can see that. Anyway, yeah suprer tired can't really think straight and I'm suprised I haven't meadte a ridiclusou amount of spelling erorrs to check.
ggonigth
goodnight all.
sh*t so tired.

I'l ltry to post tomorrow, no i WILL OST TOMORROW.

[inHimshallibe]

Forced.