Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #61=-

Lowell (3) - SerialClergyman, Faraday, Hayker
SerialClergyman (3) - Kmd4390, Xylthixlm, SpyreX
curiouskarmadog (2) - Kublai Khan, Lowell
Kmd4390 (1) - Wickedestjr

Not Voting (1) - curiouskarmadog

6 to lynch.

[SpyreX]

I'm mos def not "confirmed" town by any means. However, that doesn't change the fact that I AM town.

Yea, I've been "buddying" with Xyl insofar as that I've agreed with him about Lowell and SC. Which I did before this even came up.

I'm not down with CKD at the moment. I am more than content with Lowell xor SC.

[Xylthixlm]

I want a lynch of either SerialClergyman or curiouskarmadog. I'll take either one. I will

not

support a lynch of anyone else.

[iamausername]

-=curiouskarmadog and SerialClergyman have been prodded=-

[Kublai Khan]

I guess we're at an impasse.

Lynch choices (in rough order, taken from suspicions in most recent post -- correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a mind reader):
Kublai Khan: curiouskarmadog, Xylthixlm
Xylthixlm: SerialClergyman, curiouskarmadog
SpyreX: Lowell, SerialClergyman
Hayker: Lowell
Lowell: curiouskarmadog, SerialClergyman, SpyreX
Faraday: Lowell
Kmd4390: Serial Clergyman, Lowell, curiouskarmadog, Xylthixlm
SerialClergyman: Lowell, Xylthixlm
curiouskarmadog: Lowell, Xylthixlm
Wickedestjr: Kmd4390, SpyreX, curiouskarmadog

So our of ten...
Lowell has 6
curiouskarmadog has 5
Serial Clergyman has 4
Xylthixlm has 4
SpyreX has 2
Kmd4390 has 1

So if my information is correct, then Lowell has the clear majority thinking he's scum. However given that there's 3 or possibly 4 scum left, this makes me a little uneasy..

The case against Lowell just feels too pre-packaged and gift-wrapped by scum. The evidence is compelling, but fells kinda knee-jerk. At this point in the game it seems like someone should be able to point to a game-long intent to mislead or a voting pattern. I need motive because I could possibly add my vote.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm sorry my activity has been down, I'm finalising the buying of an apartment so I've been incredibly busy. Normal posting to resume shortly.

[SerialClergyman]

After a quick re-read of recent events I think it'd be good if the masons and KK could take a more active role to try to lead the town. I think most if not all of the remaining group are happy to accept these players as town (maybe not KK, but definitely the masons) and it might help to get past this logjam.

I appreciate that Wicked posted his analysis and voted kmd, and I have some sympathy for that vote because I do tend to think the loudest players usually aren't scum at this stage of the game, but given that a fracture line has emerged between the most vocal players with a couple of distinct groups and clearly neither seems to be really getting their point across, we need to try to find a way to get enough information to make the right choice.

Personally though, I'll still be low on posts for the next few days, sorry.

[Kmd4390]

order, taken from suspicions in most recent post -- correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a mind reader):
Kmd4390: Serial Clergyman, Lowell, curiouskarmadog, Xylthixlm

Serial is my top lynch choice. Then Lowell for sure. Maybe CKD if we couldn't get Serial or Lowell, but I'm not so sure about that. I don't think I'd support a Xyl lynch.

[Faraday]

My top choice is Lowell, then it'd be one of Sc or Xyl. Don't like a CKD lynch.

[Faraday]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

[Xylthixlm]

Faraday, any guesses for which scumteam Lowell would be on?

[Faraday]

I think he's got a good chance for either, really.

We've yet to see a vermillion power role flip, so for that reason it's possible he's one of those. Vermillion neighbour + goon + ??? versus Roleblocker/Doc/??? , is that balanced if it's 3-man scum-teams a piece?

I did see the suggestion brought up by..Hayker? that it's possible Vermillion have 4 members, so I don't know how that'd fit in with that.

Basically not really sure which he is, I don't think it matters, as if he's cerulean we eliminate a night-kill which is good, and if he's vermillion well he's still mafia lynched.

[curiouskarmadog]

posting by phone.

been prodded?

will try to post something by friday...

[Lowell]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

It's shocking how little sense this makes.

So, to clarify, my thought process is this?
1) aha, I'm scum, but I'll claim mason, so that when other masons are confirmed town, I'll look town!
2) time to breadcrumb!
2) oh no! Other masons have died and been confirmed town! ABORT ABORT!

@KK- hayker isn't trying, faraday's tunnelling, and ckd and SC think with one brain. That's probably why the case on me seems contrived.

unvote, vote SC

. For some reason this one is more popular than ckd. They're basically the same person so that's fine.

[Xylthixlm]

Lowell's posting gets better and better. <3

[SerialClergyman]

^^ Scum.

1) You're a

scum neighbor.

2) You naturally breadcrumb your neighbor ability.
3) It seems obvious that with 2 town masons and 3 town neighbors the one last remaining neighbor has a high probability of being scum, or else the mod would just have had 3 sets of masons. You don't claim.

Your defence didn't even broach the subject because you start from a position where you fakeclaim, which obviously isn't the case. The fact that Xyl just praised this piece of garbage continues to implicate the two of them.

Much has been made of me and CKD thinking alike but as far as I know I haven't don't anything to defend him and vice versa - all we've done is oppose Xyl, and be vocal about it. Xyl and lowell on the other hand, as well as pushing a case on me based on very little (remember it started with IIoA that died completely under scrutiny - why exactly did it continue?) have also defended each other from pressure.

Plus Lowell is groping for any target that isn't him. From Spyrex to ckd to me - just whoever will do, won't it?

[Faraday]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

It's shocking how little sense this makes.

So, to clarify, my thought process is this?
1) aha, I'm scum, but I'll claim mason, so that when other masons are confirmed town, I'll look town!
2) time to breadcrumb!
2) oh no! Other masons have died and been confirmed town! ABORT ABORT!

@KK- hayker isn't trying, faraday's tunnelling, and ckd and SC think with one brain. That's probably why the case on me seems contrived.

unvote, vote SC

. For some reason this one is more popular than ckd. They're basically the same person so that's fine.

Well your 1) is wrong as you didn't know there were masons in the game, so yes, pretty much exactly what you said here, with the change that the you find out about the other masons claim and then ABORT ABORT.

Makes perfect sense, really.

[Xylthixlm]

Go find that breadcrumb. What page is it on?

[Xylthixlm]

Maybe the reason I'm not finding the breadcrumb compelling evidence is that I'm the one who found it, and the way I did that is start at page 1 and look for anything that looked like a breadcrumb by anyone. The chance of a false positive doing that is not negligible.

[Hayker]

It's shocking how little sense this makes.

So, to clarify, my thought process is this?
1) aha, I'm scum, but I'll claim mason, so that when other masons are confirmed town, I'll look town!
2) time to breadcrumb!
2) oh no! Other masons have died and been confirmed town! ABORT ABORT!

@KK- hayker isn't trying, faraday's tunnelling, and ckd and SC think with one brain. That's probably why the case on me seems contrived.

unvote, vote SC

. For some reason this one is more popular than ckd. They're basically the same person so that's fine.

Lowell, mind explaining why you made a joke that could look like a very very prbable softclaim/breadcrumb? It really looks bad.

And as for my not trying, I'm convinced you are scum.
You have that breadcrumb/softclaim, the detective even mentioned your name. You throw your votes at anyone. I'm not someone who can make some amazing argument that coudl convince absolutly anyone to go after one person. helll, I have troubles convincing one or two people even. But still, I think Lowell is scum. I have been convinced of this, and no one has done anything to change my opinion in this matter. My vote shall not change, and I encourage others to follow me. Lynch lowell.

[Lowell]

^^ Scum.

1) You're a

scum neighbor.

2) You naturally breadcrumb your neighbor ability.
3) It seems obvious that with 2 town masons and 3 town neighbors the one last remaining neighbor has a high probability of being scum, or else the mod would just have had 3 sets of masons. You don't claim.

Your defence didn't even broach the subject because you start from a position where you fakeclaim, which obviously isn't the case. The fact that Xyl just praised this piece of garbage continues to implicate the two of them.

Much has been made of me and CKD thinking alike but as far as I know I haven't don't anything to defend him and vice versa - all we've done is oppose Xyl, and be vocal about it. Xyl and lowell on the other hand, as well as pushing a case on me based on very little (remember it started with IIoA that died completely under scrutiny - why exactly did it continue?) have also defended each other from pressure.

Plus Lowell is groping for any target that isn't him. From Spyrex to ckd to me - just whoever will do, won't it?

Two things:

1) I'm not saying the last mason/neighbor can't be scum, what I'm saying is that (a) were I the mason, (b) were I scum, and (c) had I

made the choice to breadcrumb and claim mason

, why would I then ABANDON THE STRATEGY after other masons died and turned up town. You think someone said "hey, maybe the last neighbor is scum" and I got scared and backed off the claim? That makes horribly horribly no sense.

Believe me, if I were mason, I would have claimed (not breadcrumbed) mason on page 1. If I were scum, I wouldn't bother indulging you in this argument. But how else will you learn?

Incidentally, I do NOT believe that the last mason/neighbor is scum. I don't know why people are assuming that. As far as "scum power roles" go, that would be a dumb one, and I don't see how it fits to have 3 pairs, 6 players, and exactly one of them in one pair is scum. It seems contrived to make it look like there's a case when there's none.

2) I love this line as defense that SC and CKD aren't a team: "as far as I know I haven't don't anything to defend him and vice versa - all we've done is oppose Xyl, and be vocal about it." Well, good thing you haven't openly defended each other! The fact is your play has run suspiciously parallel. Your not "defending" each other probably has more to do with conscious effort than lack of desire (and also isn't really true. Attacking me, for example, helps you AND ckd, even though it isn't technically "defending" him)

[SpyreX]

[quote="SC']After a quick re-read of recent events I think it'd be good if the masons and KK could take a more active role to try to lead the town. I think most if not all of the remaining group are happy to accept these players as town (maybe not KK, but definitely the masons) and it might help to get past this logjam. [/quote]

Just amazing right here. Allow me to paraphrase because ohh does this deserve it:

"Would the people currently NOT voting for me that the town feels are town be more vocal so that I don't end up lynched."

Just wanted that nice and clear.

[SerialClergyman]

Just amazing right here. Allow me to paraphrase because ohh does this deserve it:

"Would the people currently NOT voting for me that the town feels are town be more vocal so that I don't end up lynched."

Just wanted that nice and clear.

Or maybe the better way to say it is exactly as it was written - the three most town people. I even acknowledged that KK isn't considered as confirmed as the masons, but I think Hayker and Wicked are at the top of everyone's town list, and Wicked has voted me today, so it's not a gimme, he could well come back to my wagon. But any attacks led by them are absolutely genuine and non-tainted and I'm much happier looking at them than something from Xyl.

Also it isn't lost on me that the people I consider most town-confirmed haven't been convinced by the (lack of) case on me.

1) I'm not saying the last mason/neighbor can't be scum, what I'm saying is that (a) were I the mason, (b) were I scum, and (c) had I made the choice to breadcrumb and claim mason, why would I then ABANDON THE STRATEGY after other masons died and turned up town. You think someone said "hey, maybe the last neighbor is scum" and I got scared and backed off the claim? That makes horribly horribly no sense.

Because there was heavy suspicion at the time. Look for Wicked's 1678, for example. Your post at 1689 shows you were around. I think it makes perfect sense that if you have one confirmed town mason then two pairs of neighbors that one of the unconfirmed will be scum, if not more.

And more importantly, has this been your reasoning all along? Why are we only hearing aobut this now?

2) I love this line as defense that SC and CKD aren't a team:

You could make the same argument about anyone who has agreed with anyone ever. We have similar views? The main thing we agree upon is that you are scum and it's worth fighting to lynch him, unlike others who take a back seat and watch.

Take a look at the far worse buddying going on under your noses. Spyrex switched his vote to me because Xyl asked him to. Xyl has essentially one man derailed your wagon.

No one should be fooled into thinking that just because we agree that Lowell is scum we're somehow together, otherwise you should throw in Hayker and Faraday into the mix.

[SpyreX]

And the fact you called out three people who weren't voting for you to "fix this logjam" doesn't bespeak any kind of self-preservation at all?

Well of COURSE I switched my vote simply because Xyl asked me to and not because of anything you said. I mean, we're secret BFF's and all. In fact, I pretty much just wait for Xyl to tell me what to do and have given up on reading this game at all.

I AM XYLBOT. BOW BEFORE ME.

Ohh snape.

[SerialClergyman]

Spyrex, I'm not even sure what your point is. If you're saying I just picked three ransoms who agree with me, name three players closer to confirmed town to arbitrate. If you're saying I'm scummy because I'm trying to find a way that my top suspect can get lynched and not myself then it's a stupid point because that's exactly how I should play. Have I misunderstood your argument?