/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[Xylthixlm]

I can't believe I'm doing this

unvote

[mith]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

BridgesAndBaloons: 9 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, iamausername, inHimshallibe, roflcopter, SerialClergyman, Thesp, Yosarian2)
elvis_knits: 3 (BridgesAndBaloons, Kmd4390, zu_Faul)
ekiM: 2 (populartajo, VP Baltar)
Claus: 1 (alexhans)
iamausername: 1 (Herodotus)
Yosarian2: 1 (Claus)

Not Voting: 3 (Ojanen, Shabba, Xylthixlm)

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Lurker list

ekiM-
inHimshallibe*-
Ojanen*-
populartajo*-
SerialClergyman**
VP Baltar*-

[/quote]

inHimshallibe:

He has really lurked, not contributed much to the game. This is his most substantial post:

Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?

BGs

Yos
BnB

GGs

rofl
Xyl

BridgesandBalloons keeps getting mentioned. I'll take the good odds of good Townies and bussing scum.

vote: BridgesandBalloons

He doesn't make a single mention on Elvis Knitt, even though Elvis had more votes than me at the time (5). If

Elvis comes up scum, look at inhimshallibe and vice versa

. Also, him plopping onto the wagon without explaining (AND STILL NOT EXPLAINING) his vote is really scummy.

What are your reasons for voting me?

Ojanen:

reread her posts, she lurks alot less than InHim, and she is totally townie.

populartajo:

Slightly pro-townish lurker, but I'm not certain. Not as bad as inhim I think, although him going off of my wagon when he said it was a good one is kind of weird.

VP Balter:

He has now made 10 posts and he doesn't read too much as a lurker, but I'm confused why he isn't voting iamusername if he said that

Also, if iamausername is not scum I'll eat my hat (see photo).

Ekim:

Oh, I meant to take him off the lurker list. . . Well, I shouldn't have meant to do that, becuase after I looked at him, he's lurker scum.

In post 82 he silently jumps on the biggest bandwagon (Xyl and fifth vote)

In post 142 he hops off of Xyl after I become the biggest wagon

I think he is lurkerscum.

serialclergy

is a super super lurker. Has made 4 posts all game. Tomorrow please pressure him, although he does say he's busy. . .

[BridgesAndBaloons]

the WIFOM, it burns me

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Sorry I have to go for the rest of the night now . . .

[VP Baltar]

I'm confused why he isn't voting iamusername if he said that

I'm comfortable with my ekiM vote until he addresses the points made against him.

[VP Baltar]

the WIFOM, it burns me

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

This is by far the most hilarious thing I've read all week.

[Yosarian2]

Just popped in, about to go to sleep.

Anyway I see Yos voted me. This is really scummy unless he missed the following quote. I'll quote it again in case he missed it:

Thesp is right here. There is absolutly no reason town should stall the game for weeks just because it's not the deadline yet.

Nevermind above, you can add Yos to the scum list.

Yos is a very smart, very rational person. I don't believe he would accidentally

exagerate

"10 days" into "stall teh game for weeks."

I also don't think he would do something as stupid as to not let someone get the chance to speak, if I turn up town, you get to see my opinions. If I turn up scum, you can use the info to find out who my buddies are.

I've given you pleanty of chances to speak. I specifcally did not put you at lynch -1 when I first pointed your obvious, scumtell, becuase I wanted to make sure you had a chance to defend yourself and, if you wished to, claim, before getting lynched. Honestly, rofl was right, I probably should have voted you then, but I did want to give you a chance to speak.

If you want me to unvote you, then respond to the reason I gave your voting you, and convince me I was wrong. You still haven't yet, at all. Instead, you did this desperate, incredibly scummy attempt to stall the game, and are now attacking me because I voted you "even though you asked me to wait", even after you earlier ?

And, for the recrod, when you first asked us to delay lynching you for a while, you asked for 12 days. In other words, you asked for about 2 weeks. You asked us to just delay until augest 28'th, even though, if you somehow convinced us on augest 28th that you were a bad lynch, that would give the town very little time to find a better one.

Do you really not understand why a stall like that is just bad for the town? It causes lurking, it kills the momentum, ect. There's a good chance that before then someone else would do something else and the town would get distracted and forget about running you up, even though you're obvscum. Which is what you were hoping for, am I right?

[charter]

I don't get BAB's repeated "If I flip scum" statements. If you were town, I don't think this would enter your head. I've seen "If I'm scum" once before and we pretty much speedlynched the guy and he was scum.

Still want a BAB lynch.

[Herodotus]

357 is correct. BaB, I think there's a good chance that you're town, but even if you are, sitting on our hands for 12 days is anti-town. Why in the Milky Way would you even want that?

There is too much support for a BaB lynch for me to believe there aren't/weren't multiple scum on his wagon. Not that this makes him town, but I'm more interested in the wagon.

@VP Baltar:
Interesting. I was about to unvote iamausername after reading 328. Since you don't look scummy to me, and I'll leave it.

[Herodotus]

I don't get BAB's repeated "If I flip scum" statements. If you were town, I don't think this would enter your head.

That too.

[Thesp]

I can't believe I'm doing this

unvote

I'm curious about this - whyfor?

I echo the thoughts of "I have no problem with BridgesAndBaloons dying right now", and I don't like the thought of waiting until even Saturday. BAB's got plenty of contribution.

Also, vig please take care of Herodotus tonight. Thanks!

[Ojanen]

Well I'm adverse to BaB dying right now. I'm not sure about him, I haven't got proper reads on half the players yet and there are several people coming out of V/LAs right about now.
Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)? After he's been lynched? Frankly I'm not quite understanding why this is a beneficial strategy.

[zu_Faul]

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

Because there are players who are actually doing scummy things.

Can you tell me which players you think these are?

I gave comments in my last post. I mentioned at least two people, and my vote is on a third. I suspect you are not actually asking me those questions because you want the answers, but because of an other reason. Probably you just did not read the part of the message not directed at you.

---

I add Shabba to my list of suspects for that post because #1 is scummy as hell and because she asks for four people's opinions on wagons but has given no opinion on anyone herself.

Post 293

---

Stalling the game is a bad idea.

---

zu_Faul and Shabba have shown minor tinges of scumminess, but I wouldn't say I have a great read on either as yet.

Huh? Is this just gut feeling I have to disregard?

---

zufaul - seems to stop progress for no reason (slowing attacks on bridges, shabba, discouraging herodotus's lurker hunt, reprimanding xyl for too much vote hopping... these all impede the progress of a game. Pressuring people gives us better reads, so what zu is doing is bad).

This is my usual scum-hunting tactic. It works pretty well.
(/in before people accusing me of hypocrisy. It is much different from halting the game like BAB wants to, as what he is doing does not provide us with any more information, while slowing the impetus (on people who are not scummy) is doing so.)

---

Ojanen's point about KMD was quite good:

The wifom Kmd uses re: the vanilla claim gives my gut a townish feeling. Too obvious to likely deflect from scumbuddy, too obscure and likely to get flak to be a typical scum distancing from mislynch.

---

@zu Faul, ekiM, alexhans:
Do you think the paragraph under the last quote in roflcopter 298 is a valid scumtell?

No. Some people just don't like something wrong standing in the room, even if it benefits them, regardless of alignment. I think I have been so in my early days here.

Why are you asking the question to ekim, alexhans and me?

---

I totally don't get Xyl's unvote. It would be helpful if he went a bit more into detail on his thoughts. He has not produced anything more than one-liners until now. He is just watching and not acting, so he is hiding.

[zu_Faul]

PS: While I am against waiting on a lynch just because we can, I'd love to hear more from iamusername, serialclergyman and especially ekiM before deadline.

[Thesp]

Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?

3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner.

[alexhans]

Back, Catching up. I'll post in less than 12 hs from now.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Urgh... Darkblue was automatic.... because I'm modding in that color... luckyly it's not a mod color here...

[iamausername]

His vote on rofl after stating the scumminess of BnB was weird, and now the quick switchback at very mild questioning is strange enough for me to think he is potential scum.

It's not a 'switchback', since I wasn't voting BaB before, and it had nothing to do with the questioning. I didn't want to vote him while he was already close to a lynch, and had not yet claimed. Now he has claimed, and that claim does not provide any reason not to lynch him, there's no reason not to vote him.

Why was BaB's plea for time scummy and the reason for you to make him L-1? (Specifically, what was the scum motivation?)

It's not. The reason to put him at L-1 is that he has now claimed vanilla, thus removing the only reason I wasn't already voting him.

Which is not to say that his stalling for time is in any way pro-town. The scum motivation is that the longer he manages to delay his lynch, the more chance there is of something happening that causes someone else to become a viable lynch. He's acting purely in the interest of self-preservation.

I'd love to hear more from iamusername, serialclergyman and especially ekiM before deadline.

What in particular do you want me to say?

[alexhans]

Hey... Nobody DARE hammer before I get to post...

B&B is at L-2 if I'm not mistaken.

[elvis_knits]

zufaul - seems to stop progress for no reason (slowing attacks on bridges, shabba, discouraging herodotus's lurker hunt, reprimanding xyl for too much vote hopping... these all impede the progress of a game. Pressuring people gives us better reads, so what zu is doing is bad).

This is my usual scum-hunting tactic. It works pretty well.
(/in before people accusing me of hypocrisy. It is much different from halting the game like BAB wants to, as what he is doing does not provide us with any more information, while slowing the impetus (on people who are not scummy) is doing so.)

Can you explain your approach more and how it helps you tell allignments? Because I don't understand how it's scum hunting to stop wagons on people who you've said yourself are not entirely townie. How do you get info this way?

[Kmd4390]

He was pressured and forced to claim. If he claimed any of the other roles in the mod post #2, he would have been forced to demonstrate the ability he was claiming, plus he would have been at a

high risk of a counterclaim.

I don't understand why you think a scum claiming vanilla is unlikely there; it's basically what I would expect to do in that situation.

it is possible that a role may appear more than once.

ANYONE COUNTERCLAIMING AT ANY TIME IS TERRIBLE PLAY. I WOULDN'T DO IT AND WOULD BE PISSED OFF AT ANYONE WHO DID

Vote: Yos

- I would also be happy voting Thesp or Ekim. I would not mind a Xyl, E_K or SerialClergy wagon. I'll give details when BaB gets out of his ass and posts a scumlist.

Why Thesp?

but if you unvote BAB on the strength of a vanilla claim... you are scum. Ahem, KMD.

1) Why would Bridge claim vanilla as scum? It makes no sense.
2) Didn't your vanilla claim save your ass in the Family Guy mini? Why haven't you brought that up knowing that I was in that game, saw Llama clear a claimed vanilla, and saw you eventually flip vanilla?

Even though these are somewhat snarky questions, I'd like KMD to answer them.

A vanilla claim from a scummy person should cement their lynch, honestly. I mean, if you're not lynching a vanilla, who would you go through with the lynch on? Keep the claimed vanilla, kill the claimed doc? Because we think scum would fake a power role?

Quote function is screwed up on me, but this works..

Anyway. Until someone gives me a reason why scum would have motivation to claim vanilla here, knowing that vanillas are almost always lynched when they claim at L-1/L-2, and knowing that they won't be countered (or shouldn't be at least), I won't vote Bridge.

Yeah, I don't really have a good vibe from Shabba at the moment. It also kind of freaks me out the way multiple people came out of the woodwork to attack me for either no reason at all or apparently just because I was voting her.

You obviously aren't pushing very hard. I even forgot who you were voting. This is NOT consistent with your meta.

Yos is a very smart, very rational person. I don't believe he would accidentally

exagerate

"10 days" into "stall teh game for weeks."

I also don't think he would do something as stupid as to not let someone get the chance to speak, if I turn up town, you get to see my opinions. If I turn up scum, you can use the info to find out who my buddies are.

Ok, while I

do

think you are town AND Yos is scum, I have to point this out.
1) Deadline

is

"weeks" away. I think Yos was referring to the deadline, not the 10 days you asked for.
2) If you flip scum, I'm ignoring everything after your vanilla claim. Scum who is aware he is dying can mislead much easier than scum who plans on living.

. . . But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

Bullshit.

Mini 628.

the WIFOM, it burns me

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

I use WIFOM as town.

(See my reasons for thinking you are town)

Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?

3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner.

Wait, how is he outing himself?

[VP Baltar]

There is too much support for a BaB lynch for me to believe there aren't/weren't multiple scum on his wagon. Not that this makes him town, but I'm more interested in the wagon.

This is a really confusing statement. What sort of interest do you have in the wagon? Do you think BnB is a good lynch or not? If not, why are you not actively trying to persuade the town elsewhere?

Is this just gut feeling I have to disregard?

It's nothing worth me commenting on right now, just some vibes here and there.

It's not a 'switchback', since I wasn't voting BaB before

Just because you didn't actually vote doesn't mean you weren't saying you were going to. In fact, you spent most of the post building up to it and then dropped the rofl vote. Now, maybe you were indeed waiting for a claim before voting or maybe you were just hesitant about looking scummy so close to the hammer. I think that is where I am interpreting your rofl vote differently. I mean, if what you are saying is true, why spend so much time stating your intent to vote BnB? Why wouldn't you condense it down and say something like 'I support the BnB wagon, but I think we need to hear a claim first'? Seems to me like you were telegraphing your punches.

[Herodotus]

I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

This is awful. If he just wanted to exploit suspicion, he probably would have voted KMD (unless KMD is his buddy.) No one had stated any suspicions of Elvis over the number of scum issue before BaB's vote, and only one person was voting for her. Your idea is that he left the wagon that was at 6 in order to exploit suspicions that had not yet been stated on someone who was at 1?

Thesp appears that he may bussing, and this is the strongest point for BaB-scum as opposed to BaB-townie-who-is-reacting-poorly. But I think he's a better lynch.

unvote, vote Thesp

[iamausername]

Just because you didn't actually vote doesn't mean you weren't saying you were going to. In fact, you spent most of the post building up to it and then dropped the rofl vote. Now, maybe you were indeed waiting for a claim before voting or maybe you were just hesitant about looking scummy so close to the hammer. I think that is where I am interpreting your rofl vote differently. I mean, if what you are saying is true, why spend so much time stating your intent to vote BnB? Why wouldn't you condense it down and say something like 'I support the BnB wagon, but I think we need to hear a claim first'? Seems to me like you were telegraphing your punches.

OK, see, here I was thinking the problem was that I hadn't made my intent to vote BaB clear enough, because that would actually make sense.

I might not have actually said the words "I support the BnB wagon, but I think we need to hear a claim first" in that exact order, but the sentiment was obviously there. If you've noticed the fact that I was obviously showing an intent to vote BaB, how do you read the words "I totally support a BaB claim" and not realise that that was exactly what I was saying? What is the problem here? I seriously don't understand.