Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[Alduskkel]

Most of what you said about Khamisa has already been said by Kdub though.

[Alduskkel]

In fact I'll just quote the relevant stuff.

Posts 293 and 299, [Khamisa] suspects Zer0 for not contributing or asking questions, yet she has not done so either at this point (and doesn't for a long time after this point as well).

In post 433, she thinks Zer0 is town (this is after he has voted dejhka who wanted to be replaced). Then, in 493, she says he is scummy because of his reaction to dejhka's replacement request, despite the fact that he said nothing new about dejhka since 433. She later pushes a case against him based almost entirely on this, even though she said she thought he was town right after he did it.

- Since your [Khamisa's] opinion on Zero changed with an inconsistency to his activity (substantial posts from him vs. your reasoning). It would suggest that you formed your opinion of him going from town/scum based on other people's discussion, and not Zero's behavior. Were you playing off the town, or is there a certain post you can link us to where Zero sold himself to you as scum? - - You posted almost 5 pages after he voted on Dej and said you thought he was annoyed town, and that his reasoning was fishy at best.

As people other than Zero posted and speculated, you held on to this sentiment until out of nowhere you made the statement suggesting Zero was "Mad that his scumpartner left" (Dej). You went from thinking he was town, and voted Dej because he was mad that he bailed - - to making the statement that they were scumpartners (something myself and others speculated).

These are, essentially, the same, so you're basically copying Kdub without saying you are.

[AndyTony]

I'm finding more unease with the fact that she's had one foot in the water and one out at all times when she IS active.

Any points of interest I mention that HAVE been mentioned are things I'd like Khamisa to address.

The points, regardless of who has mentioned it, have not been fully cleared up.

I'm a guy who is curious for answers. I haven't voted her, nor have I based a case on her (to clarify, for your sake).
====================================================

However - Do you find it scummy for someone to steal a case? To vote someone without bringing anything new to the plate?

This is why my vote remains on you, Al.

hohum is being characteristic - - you, are being anti-town and opportunistic.

Is there anything else motivating your activity at this time?

Do you have any thoughts outside of this topic? Anything about post 1023 and MCD behavior? Anything about hohum's recent narrow minded post? Anything at all?

I'm asking out of interest, it's not rhetorical.
=====================================================
@ Kham
- If you've read up to this point, I'm sure you know what needs addressing *

[Zer0ph34r]

1023, a specific part of it or just in general? Are you sure you want the truth?

[Alduskkel]

AndyTony: I think it's scummy of you to steal a case

without giving credit.

I'd actually prefer to wait for MCD to return before commenting on him. I want to see what he has to say first. Frankly I think it's bad of d3x to answer for MCD; he's basically handing him a defense.

[d3x]

Frankly I think it's bad of d3x to answer for MCD

In all honesty, I agree Ald. However, I was however asked directly and that just so happens to be my reasoning. I had nothing else to answer with.

[AndyTony]

@ Al -
I never stole a case, I'm addressing valid suspicions and questions I wouldn't mind hearing answers to. You're suggesting that I'm not allowed to be interested in the answer to a question unless I'm the one who asks it.

And I wouldn't make hypocritical statements of "I find stealing cases scummy" after the day you've been having. (Hence the vote)

And my questions to you, please.

@Zero -
Any way you'll have it, I primarily want people to address his tunnellin, and his lynch hunting (picking me as a target and THEN trying to find evidence - - and I'll point out, still unsuccessfully)

[AndyTony]

Frankly I think it's bad of d3x to answer for MCD

In all honesty, I agree Ald. However, I was however asked directly and that just so happens to be my reasoning. I had nothing else to answer with.

Remind me what your direct question was that lead to MCD's defense, please

(I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just asking)

[d3x]

Well, let me start by saying that I don't believe I defended MCd. I gave an opinion that Ald posits could be used by MCd as a defense. I think those two are fairly different.

IMO, p1041 was directly asking me to respond to an arguement between AT and MCd {namely p1023}. I don't see how I could have gone indepth into the debate without taking a side and I don't see how I could truly take a side without appearing to 'defend' someone.

Likewise, I think the question was opened to the entire Town on more than 1 occasion in an attempt to polarize the sides one way or the other. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, nor done with scummy intent. It is what it is.

[d3x]

One final note. Please give me exact posts where it will be clear that

Almost 500 posts in, you will see that The Replacement and MCD were heading it up.

This is of particular importance to me as that's the person I replaced and the general opinion I had was that he was lurking. In fact, I just did an Iso on the Replacement and at about 500 posts in, he was going pretty hot and heavy after Khamisa. What are you angling at here?

By the way AT, could you please respond to this?

[Alduskkel]

I never stole a case

Then you're going to have to reread 1052.

And I wouldn't make hypocritical statements of "I find stealing cases scummy" after the day you've been having. (Hence the vote)

I said it was scummy to steal cases without

giving credit

. I said so in 1055. It was italicized! Either you're not reading closely or you're deliberately choosing not to acknowledge my clarification.

[AndyTony]

Al
- "Giving credit". Do I strike you as the type to try to run something like that past everyone? Kbub's post RIGHT ABOVE MINE says it already - why would I post right after him?

You're grasping at straws
=================================================
d3x

One final note. Please give me exact posts where it will be clear that

Almost 500 posts in, you will see that The Replacement and MCD were heading it up.

This is of particular importance to me as that's the person I replaced and the general opinion I had was that he was lurking. In fact, I just did an Iso on the Replacement and at about 500 posts in, he was going pretty hot and heavy after Khamisa. What are you angling at here?

By the way AT, could you please respond to this?

MCD was on that Ceph wagon to stay a lot earlier than me - - Your post suggested I had more ownership over the Ceph case than I really did - - I was simply high profile in my activity.

And the direct question was what people felt about the "My point" section. It's a well organized post and you either agree with it (MCD is tunnelling and lynch hunting) or you don't - - you don't seem to, no harm done, it's your take on it.

That's all

[Alduskkel]

Al
- "Giving credit". Do I strike you as the type to try to run something like that past everyone? Kbub's post RIGHT ABOVE MINE says it already - why would I post right after him?

WIFOM.

[pablito]

yo

[Alduskkel]

Hi. What exactly was the point of that post?

[AndyTony]

Not WIFOM, Al -

Let's be honest, I'm above trying to "steal" something from a post RIGHT AFTER it was posted. That's illogical and fruitless.

My vote and case are the ones I have on you. I've stolen nothing, I just share the same desire to have Khamisa answer.

[Alduskkel]

Okay... then why'd you post something that was said in the post right above you?

[d3x]

MCD was on that Ceph wagon to stay a lot earlier than me - - Your post suggested I had more ownership over the Ceph case than I really did - - I was simply high profile in my activity.

I guess I should clarify. I will be taking a look back to see how much you versus MCd were on the wagon, but I'm more interested in your statements on the Replacement. There seems to be a very big discrepency between what you said and what I initially found. And I {as previously stated} have a vested interest in it.

[AndyTony]

@ AL
- I don't think Khamisa has fully addressed/cleared herself from suspicion, and I'm sure she'll get that impression when she reads that she is of interest to so many people. Why post right after him? Dude, that's when my post was up lol I didn't plan anything, I read the board, made notation, posted my thoughts.
==============================================

@d3x
I'm going off of post 450 for that earlier statement - - I'm pretty sure Oddin was earliest on the Ceph wagon, and that by 450 you see the only people on it are Replacement and MCD.

That statement is me clarifying that I hardly built it and wagoned it. I was simply present for investigation, high profile, and ultimately voted it with confidence.

I don't know where you're getting "these statements about the Replacement" lol - - his name was just in the 450 vote count, that's the extent of my care/knowledge of him.

Is this your time being best used right now? lol replace into a game and devote your time to the high profile person of interest alone? Maybe it wasn't so hard replacing in late after all.
===============================================

@Khamisa
- Address the concerns when you get a chance, please!

@hohum
- Your play has continued to be very much so aggressively narrow minded. You targeted me, cheered for a case you had nothing to do with, and haven't conducted any investigations this day.

Why are you actively lurking? You do nothing but occasionally drop by and make ignorant statements about quicklynching me.

I understand your position on policy lynching (which I find unfair to towns) and apparent tunnel vision, but it would help to know what you're doing.

I think you can only hide behind your "aggressive town meta" for so long before you just seem like scum.

Where is your investigation?
Who are your other points of interest?
Got any evidence to back up your vote yet?
===============================================

@Pablito
-I'm finding your gameplay extremely uncharacteristic when compared to the last game I was in with you (as AA23). You were fair, calculated, positive, and very helpful to the town. Hence I'm a tad put off by your mentality to simply "meh" - throw a vote willy nilly somewhere.

There seems to be a lot of complacency (sp?) on your end, and I was hoping to better understand it.

Don't you think that you risk tunnelling someone by throwing a vote on them willy nilly?

See, just as MCD targetted me, and is now tunnelling in his effort to find ANYTHING he can use on me, I worry that your "meh" vote on me could instigate you going

"Alright, time to unvote....bah...can't be bothered....let's keep it.....hm...gonna need evidence though (the tunnelling begins)"

If you're not going to unvote, I'd like to better understand your case.
I've asked before already - but can I see a list of points I can fairly address by now?
===============================================

[MadCrawdad]

Same here*


MCD - There's a lot more to that post.

Re-read everything under "MY POINT"

This is about you on your end, not me. You conveniently miss the point and observations that prove you are hunting a lynch and not scum.

Unless you had a good reason to "save" my investigation for today so that you could see Ceph's lynch through. (Which is also scummy)

Remember - I didn't just answer and clarify - - You sir accepted those answers and stopped investigating. You settled. You chose not to identify any of those events as points of interest or evidence after we had our in depth hash outs.

***The rest of the town will see. They'll read it and understand - I don't expect you to be upfront about something like that (understandably) - but it's a valid point.

You're tunnelling me, hunting a lynch and not scum. You clearly decided I was a target, and then went back to see what you could use (hunting a lynch) - - - It's the other way around.

If I did actually choose you as a target, and then went back to see what I could use, it would be pretty lucky that there was such a jackpot, wouldn't it?

############################################

MY POINT

All of your "evidence" and "issues" were talked IN DEPTH and existed on D1.

You passed them off as null tells after (considering you settled, and didn't ask furhter, FoS, Vote, or even make a simple statement)

Once again, we settled nothing. When I saw something interesting I questioned you and gave you a chance to explain. Usually there were follow-up questions involved and then we moved on. Just because I never said IGMEOY does NOT imply "Good answer, AT. Let's get some coffee now that you've provided such a wonderful explanation."

Which means bringing them up again is illogical.

It means you did not:

SEE EVIDENCE - INVESTIGATE - FIND SCUM

It means you:

DECIDED I WAS YOUR TARGET - READ THE THREAD FOR WHAT YOU COULD USE.

Wrong again. As was clear on D1, I saw lots of things and investigated plenty. Just because I didn't jump up and down screaming 'Scum!' doesn't mean that things can't be looked at again later. Making any information gathered on previous days off-limits on subsequent days would be a pretty silly way to play the game.

And tragically, you can't use any of it, can you? You already investigated it and found dead ends and my forwardness and honesty.

Thus - - You sir are hunting for a lynch. Not scum

Can't use any of it? Sure thing. Why not?

If they're such weak points, why are you continually pushing back so hard? You've been going bananas from the get-go for such weak points that can't be used. Why not let the weak points speak for themselves? Clearly everyone else would see that they're not usable, right?

Scum hunt for lynches.

Why did you settle D1? Because the Ceph wagon, the wagon you were on, was promising enough? You figured you'd save it for D2 when you'd need a new target?

Stop tunnelling me.[/b][/size]

Once again, nothing was settled. And yes, the Ceph wagon looked promising. Ceph looked scummy. Now that he's flipped town, it does make your D1 behavior more interesting, even though you claim that it doesn't.

And why are you telling me to stop tunnelling you? Seriously. If I were scum (as you claim to be convinced that I am) and acting scummy (as you claim that I am) why tell me to stop?

[MadCrawdad]

Post 1023 is good enough for me to stay out of the AT/MCD argument. I see no scum-driven logic from either, but I can understand that when someone believes that their right about something, they'll stick to it.

@AT - As previously said, I think you negated MCD's case on you. If I were to vote for you, it wouldn't be based on his case. I think you & him should move on because 1023 shows how MCD let everything slide D1, and also shows that his change of opinion (after Cephir was lynched) comes out of nowhere.

Kise, these somewhat conflicting opinions confuse me.

In the first post above you hint that, in post 1023, AT & I may be 2 townies going at each other, each having misguided beliefs about the other.

Then you say in the second that we should just move along because AT negated my case on him and on D1 I let things slide and changed my opinion of AT which came out of nowhere.

Questions:

1. When you claimed that AT negated my case, are you saying that you found the case believable, and then based on AT's response, that you no longer do?

2. You say that if you were to vote for AT, that it wouldn't be based on my case. Are you claiming to have found other reasons?

3. If you believe that 1023 "shows how MCD let everything slide D1, and also shows that his change of opinion (after Cephir was lynched) comes out of nowhere" why would you urge AT to move on? If you believe your statement about me, that would be something that AT might rightfully be interested in, right?

[d3x]

Is this your time being best used right now? lol replace into a game and devote your time to the high profile person of interest alone? Maybe it wasn't so hard replacing in late after all.

Are you trying to push me off of your case just because there is a case? This doesn't make any sense. Are you accusing me of tunnelling? Please explain this comment. How is my time not being 'best used' by pursuing a case {regardless of who it's on}? How is questioning players that are lurking "devot{ing} your time to the high profile person of interest alone"? I have pending sentiments out there on Zer0 and Khamisa. Not to mention the time I soent putting together those 2 monster post.

[Kise]

1. I never believed in the case. The argument began as a clustefuck, for 1 thing. 1023 is a nice revision so I don't have to go back and read through all those exchanges you & AT had. AT made a good point that you should have continued pushing a case on him D1 instead of say, "fine," and hop back on the Ceph wagon.

2. No, I have not made another case, but I'm not going to be like hohum and bandwagon. You & hohum have your belief why your case means AT is scum, but I'm not seeing it the same way. If AT did anything that made me strike up a case on him myself, then cool, but what I'm getting at is that your case against AT is not convincing me to vote for him. Hohum said something about why AT wasn't lynched yet, so he's obviously trying to get some followers. But, I don't follow that particular case.

3. I suggested that both of you move on because I don't see one as scum on either side, as I also mentioned. So why would I continue to urge two guys I don't think are scum into a continued debate? (Are you trying to say you & I are buddies and I'm covering for you? WTF?)

Oh yeah.

Vote: khamisa

[AndyTony]

If I did actually choose you as a target, and then went back to see what I could use, it would be pretty lucky that there was such a jackpot, wouldn't it?

1. So what made you "choose" me for D2 if it's not for a scummy reason? Hunting a lynch is not very pro-town

2. If all of those points from D1 weren't dead issues for you, why would you make such serious a fuss about them D2 and not before? They didn't rely on Ceph flipping, and surely his life could have been spared if there were other scum prospects.

Looks like an inconsistency, MCD....

You either held back on D1 so Ceph would lynch smoother, and saved calling your beef with me a case for D2 (scummy)

Or you only decided today to rehash the old shit to support your tunnelling.
===============================================

@d3x
-

Are you trying to push me off of your case just because there is a case? This doesn't make any sense. Are you accusing me of tunnelling? Please explain this comment. How is my time not being 'best used' by pursuing a case {regardless of who it's on}? How is questioning players that are lurking "devot{ing} your time to the high profile person of interest alone"? I have pending sentiments out there on Zer0 and Khamisa. Not to mention the time I soent putting together those 2 monster post.

...Easy tiger, no need to get worked up. I'm simply wondering what your special interest was in my situation with MCD.

I mean, he's interrogating me, he's the one with all the issues (on things that have valid and understandable reasoning) yet he's the one not voting. The people who are, are hohum (currently actively lurking), Pablito (who "meh" - threw a vote my way), and you.

Yet I've seen no fair and concrete case.

**And you have "pending sentiments with Zero and Khamisa?

If that statement is true, why are you voting me? Have you already decided how you'll feel about them when they get back to you? lol

That's all, mate.

[MadCrawdad]

3. I suggested that both of you move on because I don't see one as scum on either side, as I also mentioned. So why would I continue to urge two guys I don't think are scum into a continued debate? (Are you trying to say you & I are buddies and I'm covering for you? WTF?)

In your first post you don't think that either of us are scum, but in the second post you say this..."shows how MCD let everything slide D1, and also shows that his change of opinion (after Cephir was lynched) comes out of nowhere," which IMO seems to possibly paint me as a little bit scummy. My point was that if you still thought AT was town, and that I was possibly scummy, I was wondering why you were calling AT off.

Based on your response, though, you apparently still find neither of us scummy.