/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[Yosarian2]

My logic isn't bad though. You have to follow the lowest common denominator approach, IMO. If two people are trying very hard to lynch one another, I assume they're not scum buddies.

Wait. Do you think day 1 vote before page 5 constitutes me "trying very hard to lynch one another?"

Do you

really

think that?

...why are you trying to argue agains the "bridges and xyl probably aren't scum together" argument here? I don't understand what you'e trying to accomplish, bridges.

Let me clarify myself here.

I could see you trying to argue against that if you were scum and xyl was town, because you don't want him to be confirmed innocent when you get lynched.

That is the only time I can see you going out of your way to argue against a "bridges and xyl probably aren't scum together" theory. You wouldn't do it if you were scum and he was scum, and I don't understand why you would do it if you were town.

Could you explain yourself here, bridges?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@yos 246, like I said before, it's really bad logic. If the town follows bad logic that leaves it vulnerable to listen to bad logic from scum. Scum's logic is always faulty (unless there's two scum groups, a SK, or bussing) and so I want to sent a precedent that we won't follow it. Does this make sense at all? I'd attack the logic of "Bridges is town because he isn't lurking" too, that's just bad logic.

I know I haven't responded to all the posts but I gtg now.

Page 11 will be my obligatory lurker hunt.

[roflcopter]

hey look, its the appeal to page number, my favorite terrible scum argument!

lynch bridges now please

Could you show me a single example of a good, correct argument made in a large game before page 5?

Before you waste your time looking through hundreds of games let me just tell you: it never happens. I didn't have a big case on Xyl, I was "drumming it up." and I knew it wouldn't get him lynched.

Just like I know E_k won't get lynched because she was making this "big attack on KMD for a slip that didn't exist." Because there needs to be more reason to lynch someone in a game than something simple like that.

page two of lynch all lurkers

page one of mafia 93

i only reference games i was a part of because i will not waste my time dredging through other games when i can prove you wrong so easily with these. there is some player list overlap with those two games and this one who will be able to confirm if you don't want to take the time to go look at those scum getting caught by good, correct arguments before page five of large games.

appeal to page number is a horrible, horrible excuse for anything

[roflcopter]

@yos 246, like I said before, it's really bad logic. If the town follows bad logic that leaves it vulnerable to listen to bad logic from scum. Scum's logic is always faulty (unless there's two scum groups, a SK, or bussing) and so I want to sent a precedent that we won't follow it. Does this make sense at all? I'd attack the logic of "Bridges is town because he isn't lurking" too, that's just bad logic.

you're comparing apples and oranges.

the only reason to try to discredit the statement of "bridges and xyl aren't scum together" is if you're scum and you're in danger of getting lynched, because then xyl becomes semi-confirmed, and this is bad for your scumteam. you're just hiding behind some ridiculous "i attack all bad logic to prevent an environment where bad logic thrives" idea.

yos, you should be voting for bridges now too

[Yosarian2]

So...you're trying to argue against Elvis here because...you actually would have said "More XYL votes please" if you were scum with Xyl?

I mean, it's possible you would have, although I agree with Elvis that it's less likely.

I don't get it, though. If you are town, and you really think Xyl is scum, and you've been attacking him all day, I would think you would be hoping to get some kind of town cred out of getting him lynched, if that does happen and he flips scum. Perhaps you wouldn't be expecting to be cleared on it, but I would think you would be expecting to get some kind of credit for it. I always expect credit for it when I am town and catch and help lynch a scum in a game.

The way you spent multiple posts debunking it...really dosn't make sense to me, at all, as a town play.

[Yosarian2]

yos, you should be voting for bridges now too

Yeah, he just moved to the top of my scumlist. I want to see how he answeres this question first. With any luck, I think there's a good chance we'll end up catching a scum and confirming xyl as town today though B&B's actions.

[elvis_knits]

@BAB 245

But I can't tell you that I think you're town if I don't believe it, and whether I think you're town or not should not affect your reason for voting me.

If you were willing to unvote me if I called you town, does that mean your other reasons have gone away and that the only reason you're voting me now is for being suspicious of you?

[zu_Faul]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one.

If Xyl dies, turns up scum and BAB is still alive, this would make a really good point against BAB (or the other way round). I am not too fond of it at the moment.

[charter]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one.

If Xyl dies, turns up scum and BAB is still alive, this would make a really good point against BAB (or the other way round). I am not too fond of it at the moment.

Do you think BAB is town or something? Why? Pretty much all you've done is take pot shots at those that are suspicious of him.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

When did you ever buy it?

[zu_Faul]

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

When did you ever buy it?

Post 184.

It has been some time since I was not dissatisfied with any of the early bandwagons. Normally I'd see at least one wagon, whose victim I would defend. But e_k, BAB, ekiM and Xyl all did not seem that bad as targets.

Pretty much all you've done is take pot shots at those that are suspicious of him.

This is plainly wrong. I did not attack anyone because they were accusing BAB. I made a comment at rofl and one at you. I doubt those really qualify as "attacks".
Saying something like this is just wrong.


Are you reading the same game I am reading?

[zu_Faul]

Oh, I did not answer your question.

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

[elvis_knits]

If you're not sold on a person's townieness, having the spotlight on them can only help you get a better read of them.

zu - Do you have any other suspicions on anyone besides me? Not to say you should move your vote or anything, but I think it would be good for you, and everyone generally, to comment on as many people/issues as possible. As of now, we only really know how you feel about me.

[charter]

This is plainly wrong. I did not attack anyone because they were accusing BAB. I made a comment at rofl and one at you. I doubt those really qualify as "attacks".
Saying something like this is just wrong.

I said you're taking pot shots at people who find BAB suspicious, not that you are doing it because they find BAB suspicious, but the only people on the receiving end of them are voting BAB (I would include Elvis with rofl and myself as well like post 106). They aren't attacks, they were little comments that leave a bad impression when read. I lump the Elvis one in because you give this hypothetical but it is not convincing at all.

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

[Xylthixlm]

I could see you trying to argue against that if you were scum and xyl was town, because you don't want him to be confirmed innocent when you get lynched.

That is the only time I can see you going out of your way to argue against a "bridges and xyl probably aren't scum together" theory. You wouldn't do it if you were scum and he was scum, and I don't understand why you would do it if you were town.

I'll buy this.

unvote, vote BridgesAndBaloons

[Kmd4390]

I'd still back my original statement naming the scum team. Just sayin'.

Unvote, Vote Bridge

[mith]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

BridgesAndBaloons: 9 (charter, ekiM, inHimshallibe, Kmd4390, Ojanen, roflcopter, SerialClergyman, Thesp, Xylthixlm)
elvis_knits: 3 (BridgesAndBaloons, Claus, zu_Faul)
ekiM: 2 (populartajo, VP Baltar)
alexhans: 1 (iamausername)
Claus: 1 (alexhans)
Kmd4390: 1 (elvis_knits)
Shabba: 1 (Yosarian2)
Yosarian2: 1 (Shabba)

Not Voting: 1 (Herodotus)

[Shabba]

Charter,

I think BaB is scummy, mainly because of posts 100, 102, 155 and 245 (angry vibes)...First, I thought that BaB was bussing Xyl...until Xyl voted for him, so there goes that theory. Post 251 confused me...big time.

I just don't agree with Elvis_Knits's logic, throughout. The arguments seem weak or diversionary, like posts 81, 94 (which I read as an overreaction), 104 (tone and tedium), and 172 (again, I don't see where the argument is going or what kind of weight it holds)

After rereading, I don't get a scummy vibe from Yosarian2...i especially liked post 240...

Post 245: good post

iamusername: what does ITP stand for?

My top suspects right now are BridgesandBalloons and Elvis_Knits, in that order.
Bridges: flustered and waffley
Elvis: tone and overreacting.
I'm not sure which one is worse.

unvote

[charter]

Well, Shabba just delivered another post without actually taking a stance on an issue in the game, without any semblance of scumhunting, and unsuprisingly her top two suspects are the top two vote earners. I am at a loss as to what to do about this.

This latest point against BAB about arguing that he could be buddies is pretty solid, I want to hear what he says. I also want to vote Shabba sooo bad.

[Xylthixlm]

I have guesses about some players, but I didn't feel like I had enough justification other than "i'm feeling scummy vibes", which to me, wasn't enough to point fingers or change my vote.

Yeah, I'd be totally willing to vote Shabba.

[roflcopter]

shabba's apparent lack of forum mafia experience gives me pause.

besides, a shabba wagon would take the wind out of the bridgewagon's sails, and that would be a real bummer since we should be lynching him pronto.

i still want elvis and yos to vote for bridges. two spots left on the wagon, get 'em while they're hot!

[Herodotus]

...why are you trying to argue agains the "bridges and xyl probably aren't scum together" argument here? I don't understand what you'e trying to accomplish, bridges.

QFGoodQuestion. And BaB's response doesn't impress. Even if you disagree with the reasoning, if you are town, that would make the conclusion true.
Also, BaB seems either to be scum, or to have lost perspective, with post 245. Very poor reason to suspect Elvis.

[offtopic]

Could you show me a single example of a good, correct argument made in a large game before page 5?

It was a mini, but I remember seeing a scum found on page 2 of a game that had roflcopter (also Don_Johnson, Killer seven, Mafiaplayer, and maybe SpyreX) in it.

page one of mafia 93

This is actually a bad example. OGB said almost exactly the same in Mini 776 as town (he ended up being dayvigged in large part for lurking.) The page 1 case just happened to be lucky in your game. Anyways, I agree good early cases can be found.
[/offtopic]

Elvis has a good argument about expecting a lack of bussing. It's not 100% (with 4 or 5 scum, I'd expect either one or two bussers if we were to lynch scum,) but it's good evidence depending very much on the circumstances.

As far as Shabba is concerned, there are multiple players who are lurking a lot harder. Does anyone even remember that there are players in this game with the usernames "SerialClergyman" and "iamausername"?

vote: iamausername

[Shabba]

Charter, what is a semblance of scumhunting, then? I read through all the posts looking for things that I thought were telling, then I thought I pointed them out. I thought I took a stance...I will admit to being fairly new to the game, but I don't think that makes me completely naive. I wanted to see who would egg me on the most to vote either way, hoping it would be telling....
What is not surprising is that the most vote earners have the most convincing arguments being made against them.

[Shabba]

I meant to say that Charter's post (247) was a good post...
sorry...typo...

[Xylthixlm]

shabba's apparent lack of forum mafia experience gives me pause.

besides, a shabba wagon would take the wind out of the bridgewagon's sails, and that would be a real bummer since we should be lynching him pronto.

i still want elvis and yos to vote for bridges. two spots left on the wagon, get 'em while they're hot!

I'd really love a Xyl-elvis-roflcopter-Yos townteam bulldozer. Not convinced on any of you yet though

[charter]

Charter, what is a semblance of scumhunting, then? I read through all the posts looking for things that I thought were telling, then I thought I pointed them out. I thought I took a stance...I will admit to being fairly new to the game, but I don't think that makes me completely naive. I wanted to see who would egg me on the most to vote either way, hoping it would be telling....
What is not surprising is that the most vote earners have the most convincing arguments being made against them.

Scumhunting normally involves voting or asking people questions to determine their alignment. You've done neither, just making comments on things, which is an easy route to take as scum.