Mini 810: Infection! Mini - Game over!

[Kelly Chen]

My list would be
Maybe original: mokina/replacement
Maybe recruited: rally, shotty, BM, Kid, Kelly
Believe to be neither: charter, tajo, veerus, kise

Some comments on this above.

I've gone on and on about why I think veerus is not original scum, if you think he could be, I'd like to hear something from you more than "I'm leaving the door open" because that translates to me as "I'll lynch him in a heartbeat if the opportunity presents itself" and I'd like for you to respond to my posts where I explain why I don't think veerus is original scum.

Ok, that will be my next post.

tajo I believe to be town because he clearly isn't original scum and I don't think scum would have tried to infect him last night.

Obviously I don't think "and I see little reason why they[charter/Shotty] couldn't be original scum" is a reason to think someone is scum since that applies to about everyone.

I disagree and it sounds like you do too, as we know two of the scum yesterday, as you say below.

BM is scummy as hell and lurks like no one's business (which I've seen him do multiple times as scum, never as town) and in this game lurking is extremely scummy. Also, it's possible he was a guard and was recruited last night, thus guard would be a safe thing to claim.

So your theory that BM knew guard was a safe thing to claim, is why you rule out BM as original scum but not as recruited scum?

I don't see why you've cleared KKN either.

I don't know what else to say about that. Tell me why you think he could only be recruited scum.

Basically, your list for original scum seems really really large since we know two of the scum yesterday. Tajo is also superobv town in my mind and BM and kid don't look town to me either.

Taj is probably town in my mind as well. I don't even disagree with you that BM and Kid don't "look" town.

[charter]

I don't understand what that can be based on. What makes Shotty, BM, or Kid impossible as original scum? (Surely what makes Kid unlikely as original scum also makes him unlikely as recruited scum...?)

The people I have for recruited are likely choices (in my opinion) for being recruited. The main criteria for that was not very suspicious yesterday. It's impossible to believe that if you think someone is unlikely as original scum then that makes them unlikely to be recruited, because recruited scum have to come from town, so you can't rule someone out as recruited scum just because you rule them out as original scum. I think that people unlikely to be original scum make good recruitment choices.

So your theory that BM knew guard was a safe thing to claim, is why you rule out BM as original scum but not as recruited scum?

Yes.

I don't know what else to say about that. Tell me why you think he could only be recruited scum.

You could expand a bit on why you think KKN is town. I think he could be recruited because he wasn't scummy yesterday.

[Kelly Chen]

Regarding veerus: Ok. veerus original scum is hard to believe, since that would mean malthusis showed up for a weekly post to to say that he's unsure which of his two pals should be lynched. Also he there uses my post to help attack veerus, when I hadn't really attacked him. It seems odd to perceive a distancing opportunity in that.

So, my reading was not too complete.

I still think Rally is probably town. His arguments seem genuine (and pretty decent) to me. Though I was relying on my own read of veerus, and reading these posts kind of sloppily.

It's impossible to believe that if you think someone is unlikely as original scum then that makes them unlikely to be recruited, because recruited scum have to come from town, so you can't rule someone out as recruited scum just because you rule them out as original scum. I think that people unlikely to be original scum make good recruitment choices.

Not necessarily. If someone was not likely to be original scum, but still kind of scummy, I don't think they are likely to be recruits. That is my basis for believing that Kise, Kid, and veerus are not recruits. Because scummy-looking people are not reliable, you don't know how well they'll avoid being lynched.

I don't agree that Kid wasn't scummy yesterday. The way he kept misconstruing pop's words in order to fight with him looked scummy. It's mostly (not totally) in hindsight that Kid's behavior doesn't seem like a good bet for scum.

Is it just your gut feeling that says Kid wasn't scummy yesterday?

[Rally Vincent]

@charter:

Why do you list BM as maybe infected, not as maybe original scum? This is bugging me to the extreme if you are serious about veerus 100% original town and the reason you have given.


My thoughts so far:

Original scum: veerus or BM - I won't repeat myself. Both of them don't strike me as likely infection targets. Veerus got enough attention to be a risk for being infected; BM was likely to be called out for his lurking.

Still town:
Tajo - obvtown Day 1; thus making him a good candidate for vaccination and too risky for infection.

Possibly infected:
In general: IMO obvtown players are less likely to be an infection target in Night 1: Much better targets are those in between (kinda in no-man's-land). Given the game mechanics, the attention of town lies on players who were standing out in one direction or the other (not that we had much obvtowns besides Tajo). I believe that such a players is more likely to be infected by not drawing much attention on him. So I'd like to seperate the possible infected players in two groups:

Group 1: likely infection targets
That include Shotty, KKN and Kelly Chen.

Shotty - His participation has declined noticable in comparision to Day 1 - meaning that on Day 2; I don't see that Shotty actually tries to hunt scum rather then debating about other's suspicions. On Day 1, Shotty voiced his own thoughts, trying to get things done. Nothing of this today. That makes him my primary suspect for getting infected.

KKN - Hard to say due to his abscence (and now getting replaced). On Day 1 he was neither scummy nor town beyond doubt; discussing with Tajo over FA too long to be taken as original scum, so a good candidate.

Kelly Chen: I was undecided until Kelly Chen made the list. The reasons given in the follow-up post are opposite to what I think in many points. If not for that, I'd probably have put KC in the below group.


Group 2: less likely infection targets
Kise - PP was town IMO. Kise also gave me town vibes in rereading; had FA as scum. As for infection, I think there was a tad too much attention on Kise on Day 1 to make him a better infection target then the above. It's pretty late and I didn't find the exact spots on Kise Day 1; I'll look into that again.


I will withhold about charter until he answered my question. Regarding Mokina, I have to reread her at the weekend.

[veerus]

I think at this point the question we should answer first is do we try to lynch someone who we think is the original scum scum, or someone who was infected by malt?

My vote would be to go after the original scum since we have more evidence and our vote won't be as circumstancial. Charter makes a good case for the original victim being Mokina/Replacement and I agree with him.

unvote;vote: The Replacement

[charter]

I don't agree that Kid wasn't scummy yesterday. The way he kept misconstruing pop's words in order to fight with him looked scummy. It's mostly (not totally) in hindsight that Kid's behavior doesn't seem like a good bet for scum.

Is it just your gut feeling that says Kid wasn't scummy yesterday?

Yes, pretty much.

@charter: Why do you list BM as maybe infected, not as maybe original scum? This is bugging me to the extreme if you are serious about veerus 100% original town and the reason you have given.

It's because no one has countered BM's claim.
Although, I've just thought of something I hadn't before. It's possible that BM is original scum, and the person they recruited was the guard and BM just assumed the guard role. However, this doesn't explain why there was no guard kill last night and BM does have a good story for it, so I still think BM was a guard initially. Of course, all this assumes we have a guard, which I said I think Xyl would want to put in because it hasn't been used before (obviously WIFOM, but my feelings nonetheless). The reason veerus is town is because of malthusis's actions yesterday. Why on earth would malthusis vote veerus scum over FA scum when they were both coming under heavy fire? I agree with you that veerus's actions were dubious at best, but malthusis's actions pretty clearly show that veerus wasn't his buddy.

[Kise]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone?

How did you get that out of what you tl;dred?

No, I read your entire post. My reply was to say that, in short, you seem undecided.

Can you do better? charter has just one more person than me as neither, with most of his suspects as recruits. I don't understand what that can be based on. What makes Shotty, BM, or Kid impossible as original scum? (Surely what makes Kid unlikely as original scum also makes him unlikely as recruited scum...?)

I think it's very possible KKN was original scum. Anyone who hesitated to vote for FA (or didn't vote him) automatically is placed in the category of being possible-infected with him.

I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

Not sure what you mean. I prefer to place Shotty as original scum

Ah, ok. Understood.

At the risk of influencing a quicklynch, I would like to point out that if we entered night phase before replacements for either KKN or TR, it would be interesting to see if any infections go through. I am sold [again] on TR being original scum. Is anyone else willing to experiment by seeing if any NAs go through w/o replacements?

[charter]

Since The Replacement is being replaced, I really don't care if we wait for a replacement for him to show up. Him and Mokina have already shown reason to be lynched and I don't see how someone else filling that slot will be able to explain their actions. Unless someone presents a better case for someone being original scum than Mokina/The Replacement, there isn't anyone else I'm interested in lynching today. I would assume that the night phase would be extended until all playerslots are filled, but if it isn't, then I guess it's a bonus to the town to lynch soon, but I think RV and probably Kelly/tajo have more to say about today.

[Shotty to the Body]

I don't really have any problem with what charter is proposing, I'm still waiting for the separate post from Chen that she promised to explain why she thought I was scum.

[Kelly Chen]

Replacement vote is probably the best. I don't believe I can make a better case on Shotty. That post is today though.

Original scum: veerus or BM - I won't repeat myself. Both of them don't strike me as likely infection targets. Veerus got enough attention to be a risk for being infected; BM was likely to be called out for his lurking.

You can't be serious... veerus as a recruitment choice?

I don't think BM would be a good choice either since he stopped posting and people were metagaming how scummy that makes him. You couldn't expect he's going to START posting once he actually IS scum.

Shotty - His participation has declined noticable in comparision to Day 1 - meaning that on Day 2; I don't see that Shotty actually tries to hunt scum rather then debating about other's suspicions. On Day 1, Shotty voiced his own thoughts, trying to get things done. Nothing of this today. That makes him my primary suspect for getting infected.

Interesting

KKN - Hard to say due to his abscence (and now getting replaced). On Day 1 he was neither scummy nor town beyond doubt; discussing with Tajo over FA too long to be taken as original scum, so a good candidate.

Don't you think that works both ways? The overt defense-but-it-wasn't is basically "so scummy he can't be scum," you don't want to recruit a guy like that even if it's true.

[Kelly Chen]

oh oops, I misread what Rally was saying about BM and veerus.

[Kelly Chen]

specifically this part
"Veerus got enough attention to be a risk for being infected;"

At the risk of influencing a quicklynch, I would like to point out that if we entered night phase before replacements for either KKN or TR, it would be interesting to see if any infections go through. I am sold [again] on TR being original scum. Is anyone else willing to experiment by seeing if any NAs go through w/o replacements?

No. If I were the mod I would consider making a random move for the scum, to prevent this info from being revealed.

[Kelly Chen]

Ok, here is the pbpa. I don't know why I doubted this would be good.

posts
0 confirm
1 random
2 random comment
3 strategy
4 strategy, mod question
5 thanks to mod
6 strategy, buddying with Mokina and charter
7 vote BM for stupid strategy (but at least it wasn't as contrived-looking as FA's vote)
8 strategy (response to BM)
9 where are the lurkers
10 combo lurker/strategy post
11 to charter: why are you suspicious of me, I'm more suspicious of lurkers
12 strategy (response to pop interrogation)
13 strategy, also Mokina buddying: "I would also agree with Mokina that even suggesting no lynch is slightly suspicious."
14 to charter: why won't you tell me your reasons for suspecting me?
15 strategy
16 mod question
17 FOS veerus over NL strategy
18 in response to BM: "Another vote without explanation? I love it, moar accusations without reasons so I can't defend myself thanks!"
19 more of this
20 unvote BM lamely: his suspicions suck but at least he's posting like Mokina said
21 no time
22 defending veerus FOS, complaining about people suspecting him. Asks me for my suspicions on himself, Mokina, and FA.
23 no time, rereading
24 agrees with Rally and votes veerus. I believe this puts veerus in the lead at 2.
25 lurkers. Mod, has BM been prodded? actually this is funny, Shotty complains that the post requirement is once every three days. Shotty's previous and next posts are three days away.
26 responds to me that he thinks veerus is very possibly the lynch, he's leaning towards him or FA, but he needs to reread charter on Kise.
27 defends veerus vote, claims fallen as second choice.
28 asks Rally why he changed to FA instead of Kise. Says he will switch to avoid NL.
29 Final vote on FA.

That's Day 1. I don't see how any of you see this as very townish.

Here's the short summary: strategy, lurkers, buddying, why are you voting me, maybe I don't have to vote FA.

Here's Day 2:
30 strategy
31 strategy
32 strategy
33 strategy
34 nonsense
35 agree with Replacement about strategy; does Rally still suspect veerus over NL strategy?
36 Do you really think KC's one post made malt infect her?
37 "Yeah I was about to point that out, that doesn't make sense Charter."
38 suspicion of charter due to "inherent contradiction" in the post
39 agrees with Rally that veerus could not have saved fallen.
39 questions why charter rejects veerus original scum.
40 "understands" charter wrt veerus not being original scum, but why couldn't veerus be recruited? As today veerus has "done nada."
41 response to pop about scum count. Agrees must be 3 scum.
42 no post today.
43 why is KC voting me? you buy the guard claim? why is Kid cleared?
44 Replacement vote is ok, but I want to hear why KC suspects me.

This day isn't very good either.

1. he can be seen as feeling out Rally to see if veerus can still be voted. He agrees with Rally. When charter doesn't agree, Shotty still wonders if veerus could be recruited. charter doesn't really agree and Shotty drops the subject.
2. asked BM whether he thinks I made malthusis recruit me with one post. Actually I think this was just an easy question to ask, as I don't think BM could have supplied Shotty with additional arguments that would help Shotty vote me at that time.
3. Shotty's strongest stated suspicion today was about charter's inconsistent theory. This doesn't result in a vote, FOS, or even follow-up comment when charter doesn't answer the issue. Isn't that extremely odd? I suspect that Shotty didn't see charter as a viable lynch target. So while it was worthwhile to point out a suspicion (backed up by another player already, how nice), it didn't look profitable to go after him.

Plus, charter basically dropped his Shotty suspicion immediately, so why tempt it to return. It just looks like Shotty wants to be friends with charter if at all possible.

I'm sad Shotty didn't get to post between my vote and unvote for charter.

4. His questions of me are why I ruled out BM and Kid. He doesn't present his own suspicions, and he doesn't question any of my scum possibilities except himself. Doesn't he want to say, that no, veerus can't be scum, or that maybe he could be scum? Does he want to talk about Rally, or anything?
5. When has Shotty

ever

expressed suspicion of Mokina/Replacement? He mentioned Replacement once (an agreement with him), and only buddied with Mokina. He's just ok with trusting charter that she/he's the lynch today?

So in conclusion,

confirm vote: Shotty

[Kelly Chen]

I skimped on 22.

Shotty also agreed with fallen's "assessment of the plan" (veerus') but disagreed that it marked scum.

And he defended himself against charter.

Shrug.

I was just looking to see if he ever commented on the FA-PP issue.

[charter]

Damnit, I will reread Shotty since I skimmed that and saw some valid points. Kelly, can you maybe consolidate that to make it easier to read and so I know what exactly you think makes Shotty scum please?

Just to confirm, you think he's original scum, correct?

MOD, what is the status on prods/replacements? Can you prod BM and anyone else who needs it please?

[Shotty to the Body]

[quotw="Kelly Chen"]1. he can be seen as feeling out Rally to see if veerus can still be voted. He agrees with Rally. When charter doesn't agree, Shotty still wonders if veerus could be recruited. charter doesn't really agree and Shotty drops the subject.
2. asked BM whether he thinks I made malthusis recruit me with one post. Actually I think this was just an easy question to ask, as I don't think BM could have supplied Shotty with additional arguments that would help Shotty vote me at that time.
3. Shotty's strongest stated suspicion today was about charter's inconsistent theory. This doesn't result in a vote, FOS, or even follow-up comment when charter doesn't answer the issue. Isn't that extremely odd? I suspect that Shotty didn't see charter as a viable lynch target. So while it was worthwhile to point out a suspicion (backed up by another player already, how nice), it didn't look profitable to go after him.

Plus, charter basically dropped his Shotty suspicion immediately, so why tempt it to return. It just looks like Shotty wants to be friends with charter if at all possible.

I'm sad Shotty didn't get to post between my vote and unvote for charter.

4. His questions of me are why I ruled out BM and Kid. He doesn't present his own suspicions, and he doesn't question any of my scum possibilities except himself. Doesn't he want to say, that no, veerus can't be scum, or that maybe he could be scum? Does he want to talk about Rally, or anything?
5. When has Shotty ever expressed suspicion of Mokina/Replacement? He mentioned Replacement once (an agreement with him), and only buddied with Mokina. He's just ok with trusting charter that she/he's the lynch today?

So in conclusion, confirm vote: Shotty[/quote]

1. Rally's been in favor of lynching Veerus the entire time, I wanted to know if he still thought Veerus was scum after flipping FA on D1. I said before I didn't think the NL plan was scummy, my suspicion moved away as he became a more active participant on D2. Charter's post 495 gave some pretty convincing reasons that Veerus is most likely clean and I didn't see much evidence to the contrary.

2. I thought that was a thin assertion to make so I asked him to clarify, not sure what you're pointing out here.

3. Charter has been on several people's (possibly) newly infected scum lists, but not mine, so I haven't pushed for his lynch. I was pretty sure of his townishness yesterday and nothing he's done today has changed my mind about that.

4. Sorry I didn't give you all of my ideas before I finished asking you about yours, that would be stupid because my ideas could change your answers and I wanted to see what you had to say first. Maybe I'm a selfish ass, but I like to answer people's suspicions about me before I talking about others, ignoring your suspicions of me and moving to talk about others right away is a scummy deflection, even if you want me to do that apparently.

5. Kise and Veerus both made similar votes based on Charter's analysis on page 22, he did the leg work without a doubt and I hadn't done a lot of looking at The Replacement before, but does that mean I should totally ignore a logical line of reasoning? Do you have a problem with Kise and Veerus "trusting" Charter as well? I don't have to trust the player to trust a logical argument.

I like how in the PBPA I'm apparently silly for not questioning Veerus as a recruitment choice after I decided he wasn't original scum even though two posts above that one Kelly ridicules the idea of Veerus being a recruitment choice.

As far as my question about KKN goes your position is still rather muddled as far as I can see, you claim to have cleared him in your mind, but you admit in 577 you thought he was scummy yesterday so what's the deal?

[Shotty to the Body]

mother of all Ws FML.

Fixed

1. he can be seen as feeling out Rally to see if veerus can still be voted. He agrees with Rally. When charter doesn't agree, Shotty still wonders if veerus could be recruited. charter doesn't really agree and Shotty drops the subject.
2. asked BM whether he thinks I made malthusis recruit me with one post. Actually I think this was just an easy question to ask, as I don't think BM could have supplied Shotty with additional arguments that would help Shotty vote me at that time.
3. Shotty's strongest stated suspicion today was about charter's inconsistent theory. This doesn't result in a vote, FOS, or even follow-up comment when charter doesn't answer the issue. Isn't that extremely odd? I suspect that Shotty didn't see charter as a viable lynch target. So while it was worthwhile to point out a suspicion (backed up by another player already, how nice), it didn't look profitable to go after him.

Plus, charter basically dropped his Shotty suspicion immediately, so why tempt it to return. It just looks like Shotty wants to be friends with charter if at all possible.

I'm sad Shotty didn't get to post between my vote and unvote for charter.

4. His questions of me are why I ruled out BM and Kid. He doesn't present his own suspicions, and he doesn't question any of my scum possibilities except himself. Doesn't he want to say, that no, veerus can't be scum, or that maybe he could be scum? Does he want to talk about Rally, or anything?
5. When has Shotty ever expressed suspicion of Mokina/Replacement? He mentioned Replacement once (an agreement with him), and only buddied with Mokina. He's just ok with trusting charter that she/he's the lynch today?

So in conclusion, confirm vote: Shotty

1. Rally's been in favor of lynching Veerus the entire time, I wanted to know if he still thought Veerus was scum after flipping FA on D1. I said before I didn't think the NL plan was scummy, my suspicion moved away as he became a more active participant on D2. Charter's post 495 gave some pretty convincing reasons that Veerus is most likely clean and I didn't see much evidence to the contrary.

2. I thought that was a thin assertion to make so I asked him to clarify, not sure what you're pointing out here.

3. Charter has been on several people's (possibly) newly infected scum lists, but not mine, so I haven't pushed for his lynch. I was pretty sure of his townishness yesterday and nothing he's done today has changed my mind about that.

4. Sorry I didn't give you all of my ideas before I finished asking you about yours, that would be stupid because my ideas could change your answers and I wanted to see what you had to say first. Maybe I'm a selfish ass, but I like to answer people's suspicions about me before I talking about others, ignoring your suspicions of me and moving to talk about others right away is a scummy deflection, even if you want me to do that apparently.

5. Kise and Veerus both made similar votes based on Charter's analysis on page 22, he did the leg work without a doubt and I hadn't done a lot of looking at The Replacement before, but does that mean I should totally ignore a logical line of reasoning? Do you have a problem with Kise and Veerus "trusting" Charter as well? I don't have to trust the player to trust a logical argument.

I like how in the PBPA I'm apparently silly for not questioning Veerus as a recruitment choice after I decided he wasn't original scum even though two posts above that one Kelly ridicules the idea of Veerus being a recruitment choice.

As far as my question about KKN goes your position is still rather muddled as far as I can see, you claim to have cleared him in your mind, but you admit in 577 you thought he was scummy yesterday so what's the deal?

[Kelly Chen]

Damnit, I will reread Shotty since I skimmed that and saw some valid points. Kelly, can you maybe consolidate that to make it easier to read and so I know what exactly you think makes Shotty scum please?

Just to confirm, you think he's original scum, correct?

Yes. I have to think about how to consolidate it without making it longer.

But my basic sense, in a sentence, is that Shotty doesn't have real suspicions, especially not inconvenient ones.

His first nonrandom vote is for BM for suggesting a bad strategy. This vote comes off after BM starts attacking him, with the reasoning that "at least he's posting."

veerus only gets an FOS at first. This is elevated to a vote (to match FA at 2, I believe) after Shotty says he has reread veerus and Rally's arguments. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I think it's consistent with trying to find a way to elevate the FOS. I also think this is wishy washy, and concerned about being questioned:

I must admit right now after re-reading a couple of Rally's posts and doing a full re-read of all of Veerus' posts I am not liking his town odds. I don't really see any attempts at scum-hunting from Veerus, all he does is propagate his NL plan. He doesn't scum hunt so he has no suspects so he likes the idea of NL. He claims that town is in a favorable position if we let our night roles shoot it out with the scum. The scum have a huge advantage during any night time action, scum know who is on their side and who isn't, scum get to pick anyone for the scientist(s) to counter them (t)he(y) would have to be everywhere, the guard is more likely to shoot a fellow townie then a scumbag, and meanwhile the scum get to infect a player of their choice. I already pointed out to him our bad odds at night against scum and he still pushes this plan. I agree with Rally's 221,

we really need to pay more attention to Veerus' actions or rather his lack of them.

groan! I (and it could just be me) really dislike how this is padded with a reiteration of why the NL plan sucks. It doesn't seem like anybody would have wondered about that.

For post 26 I asked Shotty if veerus was the lynch. He had three options open.

in 27 says again that fallen is his second choice.

I think 28 is the only question mark with my theory. Kid bumped Kise into a tie for the lead. Rally moved his vote from veerus to fallen, so that tied for the lead are fallen-Kise rather than veerus-Kise. It seems a bit blatant to ask Rally why he made that move, instead of putting Kise in a clear lead. I am guessing it seems more blatant in hindsight, with fallen ending up as the actual lynch.

I wonder also why Shotty-town asks that question. Fallen is supposed to be Shotty's second suspect, not Kise. And there was little reason to think Rally would vote Kise.

After Shotty posts that though, three more votes pile up on fallen.

I think a difference between Shotty and veerus here is that Shotty was posting that day, and said he would move his vote, where veerus hadn't posted in four days.

I hope that gives you a little something

[Kelly Chen]

1. Rally's been in favor of lynching Veerus the entire time, I wanted to know if he still thought Veerus was scum after flipping FA on D1. I said before I didn't think the NL plan was scummy, my suspicion moved away as he became a more active participant on D2. Charter's post 495 gave some pretty convincing reasons that Veerus is most likely clean and I didn't see much evidence to the contrary.

A likely story. What I don't like is that you never said that, or the opposite. i.e. If a veerus wagon sprung up right now somehow, there's nothing to keep you from joining it.

2. I thought that was a thin assertion to make so I asked him to clarify, not sure what you're pointing out here.

Not much. That doesn't fit my model, so I think you were just saying something easy without much significance. Plus asking questions looks protown

3. Charter has been on several people's (possibly) newly infected scum lists, but not mine, so I haven't pushed for his lynch. I was pretty sure of his townishness yesterday and nothing he's done today has changed my mind about that.

This seems odd because you accused him of role-fishing and having an ulterior motive.

4. Sorry I didn't give you all of my ideas before I finished asking you about yours, that would be stupid because my ideas could change your answers and I wanted to see what you had to say first. Maybe I'm a selfish ass, but I like to answer people's suspicions about me before I talking about others, ignoring your suspicions of me and moving to talk about others right away is a scummy deflection, even if you want me to do that apparently.

Doing a pbpa on you was harder than responding to initial reactions.

Also, I'm personally not very interested in your explanations in your own defense unless you have something convincing that I didn't even think of. I could happily vote you just on gut, but unfortunately that wouldn't persuade anyone.

Not sure I follow that last part.

5. Kise and Veerus both made similar votes based on Charter's analysis on page 22, he did the leg work without a doubt and I hadn't done a lot of looking at The Replacement before, but does that mean I should totally ignore a logical line of reasoning? Do you have a problem with Kise and Veerus "trusting" Charter as well? I don't have to trust the player to trust a logical argument.

All you said is you "don't really have any problem with what charter is proposing."

veerus and Kise are irrelevant, there are other reasons to think they are town. If you want to make a theory about them, go ahead.

I like how in the PBPA I'm apparently silly for not questioning Veerus as a recruitment choice after I decided he wasn't original scum even though two posts above that one Kelly ridicules the idea of Veerus being a recruitment choice.

I don't think I follow this. What does my post have to do with anything.

As far as my question about KKN goes your position is still rather muddled as far as I can see, you claim to have cleared him in your mind, but you admit in 577 you thought he was scummy yesterday so what's the deal?

I think I've been pretty clear that I feel he was scummy but not scum. People don't seem content about why I think that, is all.

[populartajo]

Sorry guys V/LA until the 18th. City holidays.

[Battle Mage]

not prodded. Im still feeling good about a Kelly Chen lynch. Veerus, aiming to lynch someone who definitely wasnt recruited, is incredibly stupid.

BM

[Kise]

I'll have to re-read things before I settle on a vote. Good point by charter regarding a random scum night action.

[Rally Vincent]

I had a reread of Mokina; it was inconsistant compared to her earlier games. Those earlier games didn't differ enough to get a meta read. I think I found a slight difference between her scum game and her town games, but one scum game doesn't really give that much to be sure - considering that Mokina's posts here seem to lack "face-to-face" conversation. I'd very much like to hear from Mokina/Replacement's replacement to get a further clue. I'd be very disappointed with a lynch before that.

Still; I'd go for a veerus as original scum lynch anytime. Didn't do anything on Day 1, and on Day 2 he is mirroring charter. That's about it. I also think BM could be original scum; after his claim, he (again) lurked hardcore. With this in mind, Mokina would only come in third in my original scumbook.


charter is rather original town in my book. I am interested in his thoughts about Shotty; if he was a likely or less likely infection target depends(partly) on that.

Who do you think is scum besides me?

You might set an example by telling us who is/are your other suspect(s) besides The Replacement - prefarably before charter names someone else.

[charter]

Reread Shotty and he doesn't look that good. I can see him as either original scum or infected.
40 is incredibly scummy.

He has agreed with me on almost everything, which I don't really think makes a whole lot of sense due to my stance on FA yesterday. I also find the fact that he has not voted at all today scummy.

Shotty, why have you not voted today? Who are you most suspicious of and why?

unvote

Argh, I am really torn here. Shotty doesn't look very good. He definately hasn't been looking for or trying to lynch scum today. I also kind of get the feeling that he's waiting for someone to get to L-1 and speedhammer then suicide tonight.

I am like 95% sure at least one of Replacement and Shotty is scum after rereading him, but unfortunately we only get one shot at this.

[charter]

MOD What is the replacement/Prod situation on everyone? It's been over a week since you've said KKN and Replacement were being replaced.