/in-vitational 3: Brass & Shrapnel. Over. before 831

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm..

Vote: ChannelDelibird

for overreacting to curiouskarmadog's joke vote.

[Kublai Khan]

@Kublai, what about hasdgfas then?

Only got one vote. Consider him

FOS

ed

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm..

Vote: ChannelDelibird

for overreacting to curiouskarmadog's joke vote.

Hey Kublai, aren't you the one who's anti-sarcasm? Why are you so nonchalant about this?

I'm not anti-sarcasm. Sarcasm must either be done right or not at all. Anything outside the extremes is scummy.

curiouskarmadog's joke-vote wasn't worthy of a vote.

[Kublai Khan]

I find it interesting that you assume I am voting for CKD because of the way he voted for you.

It's not a huge leap of logic. The only other possible explanation is that you're voting people blindly despite the fact that they already posted content. I'm actually giving you the benefit of sentient thought.

If I'm wrong, then setting the record straight is a great alternative to being coy.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm voting CKD because he refused to vote MacavityLock with me, not because of his vote for you. I found his lack of camaraderie disappointing.

Fair enough, coy boy.

unvote
Vote: hasdgfas

Are we already engaged in serious discussion and it's not even page 2?

I've noticed a trend in my games lately where the RVS is over and done with as soon as possible. I'm okay with that.

[Kublai Khan]

@mod, I already voted.
In case it wasn't counted,

Vote: Kubai Khan

.

Do you have a good reason on why you're making sure the mod has me at L-2?

Only got one vote. Consider him FOSed

First post that really rubs me the wrong way.
It's RVS. You don't need a reason. This just seems like arse-covering.

RVS? Hasdgfas gave a serious reason for voting and so did I. Are you attempting to dismiss in-game content? If so, why?

@KK

- Why the change to hasdgfas in Post 26?

I thought two posters (ChannelDelibird & hasdgfas) were taking curiouskarmadog's opening post way too seriously. ChannelDelibird had voted first so I voted him first, but he stated that his vote was based on something else (lack of camaraderie - silly, but plausible in the RVS). So I unvoted and voted hasdgfas. Hasdgfas confirmed that he was indeed taking a joke vote seriously.

[Kublai Khan]

I have started going after so-called "jokes" recently, because of a bit of mafia theory I've started believing. That mafia subconsciously want to tell us they're mafia. So "jokes" and other things that are meant to be light-hearted are actually our subconscious getting out and telling the other players what our alignment is. Does that make sense at all? It's rather difficult to explain.

Eh, I can't say that I see that as a viable theory. I've seen many pro-town players make bad joke-votes in the RVS. As much as I hate arguments of meta, it would take a meta argument for me to go along with the thinking. (i.e. "curiouskarmadog never joke-votes as town, but does as scum")

As much as I agree that players should never be intentionally scummy for laughs, I can never follow through on stuff that happened in the RVS. I guess I tend to react to those I see as over-reacting.

Just making sure my original vote went through. Any reason why I shouldn't be?

In such a small game, I'd like to think that those putting on the third vote might want to have a little more substance to their reasoning. Since you're correcting the mod, it seems like your vote for me was a little more serious then I originally gave it credit for. I realize you've unvoted now so it's kinda moot, but I don't care for your play there.

Why do you need any reason for him to want the vote count listed correctly?

Why are you re-asking a question than Budja just asked?

Has it become a general consensus among people who have played with hasdgfas that he builds awful cases as town and scum? Because I seem to have noticed this.

Are you seriously expecting air-tight cases on the first few pages? hasdgfas' case may be weak, but it's kick-starting discussion. He's looking more town than you.

unvote
Vote: Quagmire

[Kublai Khan]

but lets say, for shits and giggles...it was. you are voting me because I want to return to the RVS? How is that scummy? How do you think as scum returning to RVS is helpful for scum?

If you're trying to return to the RVS after some semi-serious to serious discussion started, then it really looks like you're trying to squash that discussion because you don't like the direction it's headed.

Budja's reasoning is sound, but I think his read is off.

[Kublai Khan]

but lets say, for shits and giggles...it was. you are voting me because I want to return to the RVS? How is that scummy? How do you think as scum returning to RVS is helpful for scum?

If you're trying to return to the RVS after some semi-serious to serious discussion started, then it really looks like you're trying to squash that discussion because you don't like the direction it's headed.

Budja's reasoning is sound, but I think his read is off.

not once in any game as scum or town, have I seen anyone try to return to the RVS stage? What about Bud reasoning do you think is sound..what is off?

Budja's reasoning that it would be scummy to push to return to RVS is valid. (Note: I've not seen anyone try to do such a thing either, however if it were done, I'd consider it to be more of a scum move than town)

Budja's read that you were trying to do such a thing is wrong.

[Kublai Khan]

I decided to do a re-read and came up with a few questions and answers.

@hasdgfas (re: post 10): You FOSes molestargazer for voting someone for not voting. Could you expand on why you view this as scummy?

@Quagmire (29): Why do you feel that hasdgfas' reasoning behind his vote isn't legit?
@Quagmire (34): Why are you playing both sides of the discussion between curiouskarmadog and hasdgfas?

It was page 1, I doubt everyone had even checked in at that time. Whilst you may have counted the discussion as 'serious', to me it was your first post and it was still RVS.

So you've misinterpreted the tone of my posts so far this game and you're finding me scummy for calling you out on it?

It's not the same question. He wanted to know why he shouldn't be correcting the mod. I want to know why you think he needs a reason at all. And you still haven't answered me.

Not only that, Budja wasn't the 3rd vote on you. I was. Why didn't you check that before calling Budja out? Does me being the 3rd change things for you? If so, how?

If I had made a random joke-vote and the mod missed it, I wouldn't really care and I'd just keep playing and eventually place a serious vote. I had thought that Budja's vote on me was random cause he didn't give a reason, but if he's correcting the mod, then maybe it was more serious then I had previously thought. My questioning him was a roundabout way to determine his intentions.

And he was making sure that I had 3 votes on me, so whether or not he's the chronologically third voter was kinda moot.

[Kublai Khan]

If I had made a random joke-vote and the mod missed it,

I wouldn't really care and I'd just keep playing and eventually place a serious vote.

I had thought that Budja's vote on me was random cause he didn't give a reason, but if he's correcting the mod, then maybe it was more serious then I had previously thought. My questioning him was a roundabout way to determine his intentions.

Really? You wouldn't want both the person you're voting for and the rest of the players to be fully aware of the fact that that person was at L-2?

My mistake, I was speaking in general terms. If I was in Budja's situation specifically, then I'd either move the vote or make it serious by correcting the mod. I was asking Budja if it was the latter.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh, so weasel-y. Yeah, my vote's not moving any time soon.

What? Seriously? You asked me to clarify something and I clarified it. Now you're trying to argue that it's a scumtell?

Your case is so shallow that toddlers can wade in it unsupervised.

[Kublai Khan]

For clarification: the ckd wagon is really scummy because

he's being voted for for things he did during the RVS

. Think about that for a sec.

Are you suggesting that it's impossible for scum to do something to give them away in the RVS?

'Cause I've got a meta example that kinda contradicts that.

[Kublai Khan]

Ok, am disliking currently Budja and Kublai Khan. Budja as I dislike his case on ckd, and Kublai Khan because he seems to be getting overly emotional over attacks on him. CKD has also hit my scumdar early on but not enough to even consider at this early stage.

vote Kublai Khan

wins it over budja.

Hmm.. What do you think of Quagmire?

[Kublai Khan]

over emotional, especially in this stage of the game

Out of curiousity.. Given that we've never played together before, what is your baseline threshold for what's considered emotional vs non-emotional? Is it in comparison to yourself, an "average" scummer, or have to done meta research on me before beginning this game?

Also, why did you ignore my question about Quagmire?

[Kublai Khan]

Sorry for needing to be prodded.

I've been re-reading and getting a little bored of the whole "you're reacting at exact the wrong amount" accusations of scummyness. Nobody is really sure of anything and everyone is pretty much just bostering and postering.

I'm intrigued by this setup. I've never been in a game with these rules and I've been racking my brain over how the game could be broken, or if it can't be broken, then what's the best strategy for victory. (Note: If anyone has a link to a previous game that used these rules, I'd be much obliged since the search function is disabled).

I think brainstorming over possible strategy will reveal scum with much better accuracy than what we've been doing so far. With the deadline coming up in a week, I'd say it's worth a shot. What does everyone think?

[Kublai Khan]

One thing that hasn't gotten discussed is method of deciding who to hammer. Since there are supersaints, we're going to need to figure that out, right?

I think that when a player gets to L-2, people should stop voting. Instead they should simply announce that they are willing to join the lynch. Once two people have done so, then the lynchee is allowed to look at their lynch and choose who they want to be the hammer. Then we make it happen. Penalties to be enacted no those that try anything funny.

Sound good?

[Kublai Khan]

I think that when a player gets to L-2, people should stop voting. Instead they should simply announce that they are willing to join the lynch. Once two people have done so, then the lynchee is allowed to look at their lynch and choose who they want to be the hammer. Then we make it happen. Penalties to be enacted no those that try anything funny.

Sound good?

Have you seen it done this way before? If so, where? Given that two people (including yourself) have been at L-2 this game, why didn't you suggest this until now?

Not really. You just threw out a question/problem and I was throwing out a potential solution. I guess it works just as well at L-1.

The only other solution I can think of is asking people to hammer themselves.

[Kublai Khan]

The only other solution I can think of is that we all choose the hammerer, as opposed to just the the lynchee. I'm not necessarily saying that this is a better solution that Kublai's first one; I don't know which of these two I'd choose. Just that it does seem to be a feasible way of going about it.

Should we do that with every lynch or just when the lynchee claims super-saint?

[Kublai Khan]

He pushes weak and useless cases really hard and is extremely sure of what the town needs to do, despite his logical shortcomings... it's like he's trying to deliberately start a bandwagon.

Uh, I feel like I should make a "pot, kettle, black" joke here..

---

Everyone! Deadline is sneaking up quickly.. Quagmire's has got 3 votes and a verbal vote from molestargazer. We need to decide if we are going to lynch Quagmire or quickly go with someone else or go for a no lynch.

We've got about 30 hours to go, so some last minute discussion would be fantastic at this point.

Mod: What happens if the deadline lynchee is a supersaint? Does the last voter die?

[Kublai Khan]

Uh, I feel like I should make a "pot, kettle, black" joke here..

---

Everyone! Deadline is sneaking up quickly.. Quagmire's has got 3 votes and a verbal vote from molestargazer. We need to decide if we are going to lynch Quagmire or quickly go with someone else or go for a no lynch.

We've got about 30 hours to go, so some last minute discussion would be fantastic at this point.

Mod: What happens if the deadline lynchee is a supersaint? Does the last voter die?

Uh, my case is legit... hasdgfas seems to be continuing to push his case as if he's right. I'm not voting anyone for their actions during the RVS.

Well likewise, I'm not voting for anyone who moved to get us out of RVS. Building weak cases to get out of the RVS is a town-tell for me.

[Kublai Khan]

@curiouskarmadog:
Why in the world would scum-Budja add a 4th vote on Quagmire and risk death in the event that Quagmire was a super-saint? I'll believe that scum were either on the wagon or happy to let it go to deadline with Quagmire dying. But jumping on it? Ehh.. No.

[Kublai Khan]

Need to reread, really not got a feel for this game at all.

Likewise.

This game feels like a game of minesweeper where you need that one breakthrough to happen so you can plant flags where the mines are.

[Kublai Khan]

First thing I noticed on the reread was KK's FoS which I pointed out in my Page 2 post here. He responded by accusing me of Dismissing in-game content, which I replied to here. Looking back, he never really replied to my original accusation of the fact that the P1 FoS was, really, covering his arse.

I guess I never replied because I didn't understand the accusation. Doesn't an accusation of covering my arse imply that I made some sort of mistake to begin with? What was it? Not FOSing hasdgfas immediately?

I voted ChannelDelibird because I perceived that he overreacted to curiouskarmadog's joke-vote. Budja asked "what about hasdgfas?" since he had also voted for curiouskarmadog at which point I said "Okay fine" and FOSed hasdgfas. I had been planning to question hasdgfas after ChannelDelibird but I wanted to get ChannelDelibird's reason first because he's one of the very few that I hadn't played with yet. It's you and MacavityLock that are making a "ZOMG! SINISTER!" reaction to nothing, really.

KK's attacking of Quag in Post 58 looks reaching at best, could even be taken as chainsaw-y.

I make no apologies for thinking that Quagmire was scum. It sucks that I was wrong, but he made no attempt to try to look town.

Though it's funny that you now think that my case was "reaching and chainsaw-y". Especially since you didn't have a problem piggy-backing on my Quagmire case with no added insight. That's the sort of 180° move that gets you invited to the X-Games.

He also appears to not have responded to my request for an explanation as to how I misinterpreted him here. KK seems to be going out of his way to avoid answering anything.

Sorry, I missed your post while replying to MacavityLock. Check the timestamps it was a near-simulpost.

For an explanation as to how you've misinterpreted the tone of my posts, here is you misinterpreting the tone of my posts:

Whilst you may have counted the discussion as 'serious', to me it was your first post and it was still RVS.

In fact, if you look back to the post where I accuse you of misinterpreting the tone of my posts, I'm quoting the exact same passage.

I'm happy to

Vote: Kublai Khan

as I did yesterday.
Sure, it's not a great case. You might even think it OMGUSsy. But it's all I could find right now. Here's hoping this can be the breakthrough that makes this game interesting.

How the hell is it "OMGUSsy"? After I missed your last post I didn't even address you for the rest of Day 1 or any at all of Day 2? And your case isn't merely "not great", it's really weak. Either I had already responded to it, or you're asking me to clarify something that I already was pretty clear about when I posted about it the first time. I don't remember you being such an obtuse player. What's the deal?

[Kublai Khan]

It's the fact that you FoSed only after being called out on it.

Eh, If I hadn't, then I'd be accused of hypocrisy. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Though it's funny that you now think that my case was "reaching and chainsaw-y". Especially since you didn't have a problem piggy-backing on my Quagmire case with no added insight. That's the sort of 180° move that gets you invited to the X-Games.

1. X-Games?
2. I asked Quag questions about his 'case' because I didn't see his logic. I found his lack of one scummy. I didn't just use your case to 'hop-on' to the wagon. What made you think that?

1. X-Games is a sports competition where skateboards and other "extreme" athletes compete. Turning 180° is a common move.
2. When you made your case against Quagmire (post 147), you linked back to post 117 where you note that my observation of Quagmire's "wishy-washy playing both sides of the fence" is valid. Then you note that his hasdgfas case has no merit, which I had already questioned him on.

Now you're accusing me of being reaching and chainsaw-y because it lynched an innocent townie.

vote: molestargazer

To the rest of the town: Anyone going to comment on this? Anyone still playing? Bueller?

[Kublai Khan]

@Mod: I voted for molestargazer in post 199.

I didn't really pick up on anything game-changing in my re-read. I think this game needs a wagon, so I'm happy to go back to

Vote: Kublai

.

WTF? Really? You don't find molestargazer to be scummy? Even slightly?

On Day 1 he's agreeing with me on all levels and calling for the Quagmire lynch, even offering to hammer.
On Day 2 he's suddenly suggesting that my case was "reaching and chainsaw-y". When I called him on it he's simultaneously standing by what he said and backing off. Note the following bolded parts:

What...? the result of the lynch had nothing to do with why I voted for you on D2. I freely admitted that I would have been happy with a Quag lynch. I don't think you scum just because he flipped town.

I think you scum because I found the case itself reaching and chainsaw-y.

A bad case on anyone is scummy, regardless of the resulting alignment when the object of that case dies.

And here we reach one of those points where there's sod all I can do to convince you that you're wrong.

The case on Quag was valid.

I noted that, called him out on the points regardless of what anyone else did or thought, and said I would've been happy with his lynch. There's nothing else I can say on the matter.

How can the preceeding two opinions be held at the same time? How can a case be both valid and reaching & chainsaw-y? He's waffling because he's scum.

I'm staggered by your blindness and the apathy of the rest of the town.

Mod: Is anyone due for prodding?

[Kublai Khan]

@Mod: It canz be prodz tiem nao?

(w/LOL cat picture)

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. The low participation is really hurting this game.

I'm happy with the molestargazer bandwagon. For his somewhat hypocritical accusation against me, and because he brought up a case against me, then immediately backed down from it, giving the excuse that it was a lame weak case.

Since Budja is offering a virtual L-1 at this point. If someone else feels like they might vote, molestargazer should consider roleclaiming.

[Kublai Khan]

I'd like a claim, but I think that either Porochaz or ChannelDelibird should be the ones to make a formal request.

[Kublai Khan]

Nice insightful posting there .

At the speed this game is going, I'm happy with whatever at this point.

How about a little setup discussion.
@all, how do you feel about a bomb-claim?

Uh, outing the bombs is probably a bad idea. I think it benefits scum two different ways. 1) They will know who not to target. Right now the threat of people being bombs is probably the only thing keeping the body count so low. 2) Scum can fakeclaim bombs to avoid being vigged.

Kinda a scummy suggestion there, Budja. If anything, super-saint-claim(s) would be better.

[Kublai Khan]

Eh, I asked the question as it appears to have roughly even pros/cons in my view. Now quag (bomb) is dead, it is probably more of a bad idea.
Note that it would give the vigs a free reign and well as the mafia.

Giving the vigs free reign is probably also a bad idea given that activity is so low that nobody can get a decent read on anybody else.

Why would a super-saint claim be better? It gives scum a free target (much like with the bombs claiming) and reduces the risk of hammering to scum (which would discourage quickhammers by scum in LyLo).

True. I guess the thing that's worrying me more is fakeclaims. Bomb seem more useful in keeping random kills down throughout the game versus a super-saint's role of stopping the quick-lynch at LYLO.

I almost think that the setup is too balanced. I feel deadlocked.

[Kublai Khan]

Do you think my question was scum-motivated then? Is a bomb claim that bad?

Eh, I don't think you're scum.. But you did move from town-ish to neutral.

With this attitude, nothing will happen.

Agreed. I'm getting to a point where I'm believing that those who are lurking the most have to be scum. I'm getting ready to move my vote to ChannelDelibird or MacavityLock.

[Kublai Khan]

As for Bomb-claim, I don't think I'm for it. What do people think of a Vig/Not Vig massclaim?

That would be the exact same thing as a bomb claim! It's like handing the mafia a "Who to kill to win the game" list.

[Kublai Khan]

I really don't like how ChannelDelibird and Porochaz are totally avoiding commenting on the molestargazer wagon. Porochaz is V/LA until... Friday? (Feels like it's been longer) But ChannelDelibird doesn't have the same excuse.

His inactivity is dragging the game and killing the wagon on molestargazer. Strong scum-partner possibility.

[Kublai Khan]

molestargazer, would you consider trying to use your ability before the deadline lynches you?

[Kublai Khan]

vote Porochaz

for essentially being V/LA from the beginning of September and not asking for a replacement.

@curiouskarmadog: Since when does being wrong = being scummy just by itself? it's not like I have a great amount of material to work with or am causing the deadlines to kill people. The apathetic town is marching itself up the gallows and letting scum win.

[Kublai Khan]

you have been on two townie lynches.

How am I more guilty of causing two townie lynches at deadline than the depraved indifference of those who didn't try to present a defence against lynching either Quagmire or molestargazer or didn't bother making any case against anyone else? When we have had two deadline lynches, is my activity someone worse than other's apathy?

Point noted about Porochaz, though.

@Mod: Prod Porochaz and ask if he wants to be replaced

unvote
vote: ChannelDelibird

I'm positive that the scum are among the lurkers.

[Kublai Khan]

CKD and Kublai, are either of you at all worried about the LYLO that's likely to occur very soon? Why so free with your votes?

unvote

Sorry about that..

With 6 living players and 2 scum, my brain didn't make the connection.

Will post more substance later today (hopefully)

[Kublai Khan]

not planning on unvoting....at least not until the two lurkers post...

Okay, so what's the plan? If I'm not speed-lynched I must be scum?

am I sure of my "case"? No, but as KK said, not much to go on....going with my gut and my gut tends to be right...at least 60%+ of the time (I track the lynches I am on).

Well, the gut connects to the ass which does sound like the place you pulled that statistic from. So it could be legit.

[Kublai Khan]

you sure about that buddy?

the actual number is 55.15% correct with my lynches as town (so I guess I was wrong saying 60).

quick check to my wiki, will demostrate that I follow it pretty closely....but why bother check that, when it is easier for you to say I pulled it out of my ass right?

Tell me honestly, curiouskarmadog, if I had a statistic that said that I was 55.15% sure of lynching scum when I didn't have a case or evidence on them. Would you listen to me?

In other words, your statistic is meaningless. It only exists so you can throw it in people's faces when you have nothing to go on.

[Kublai Khan]

oh, there is only 9 players here...for some reason I thought there were 12....(3 name scum team)..with 9 players the scum team is probably 2...so a quick lynch hasnt happened.

Probably? Read the opening posts.

unless we are both town and you are scum, like my inital gut read.

There's other players in the game besides me, you & Budja.

I think you are scum...havent I implied that since day 1?

Yes, but then you dropped the case entirely. Now you're back on it?

so you see no problem with him being on 2 townie lynches?

At least I'm trying to scum-hunt. Not just lurkily sitting back and watching them get lynched so I can pounce on the active guy.

I kinda think curiouskarmadog is a good lynch, but maybe I shouldn't be leading the wagon again. However we really, really can't have another deadline lynch. We need to come up with an actual plan and execute it.

Since we've been paralyzed into inaction by having no information at our disposal, maybe we'll be able to come up with a plan by mass claiming. I know I'm ruining the advantage that super-saints have and that I'm doing a 180 on my previous position, but with so little activity in this game we can't really afford to risk another blind lynch. Maybe we'll have better luck if we catch scum in a bad setup lie?

Since it's LYLO and we've done so poorly so far, it's worth a shot.

[Kublai Khan]

Woah, woah, woah..

vote KK

not entirely sure why this didnt happen instead of mole yesterday. Budja is also an extremely good lynch as well.

Popping up out of nowhere and putting on a second vote in LYLO with absolutely no case or argument?!?

[Kublai Khan]

Yep, you/Budja/CKD is scum and currently the list goes

Budja
KK










CKD

Also we may not be in lylo, so stop saying that.

Nice tunnelvision at this juncture of the game. With 6 players and 2 scum, if two townie vigs die (1 mislynch, 1 scum-day-kill), then scum win. It's LYLO scum.

[Kublai Khan]

DEATH SCENE

Porochaz, Pro-Town Supersaint, killed Day 3

Fuck. Sorry, that was me. He jumped in out of nowhere with a 2nd vote and denied it was LYLO. It was incredibly bad play and I thought he was scummy for it.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, that is a lot of townie blood on your hands.

I know.. I'm sorry but this game just doesn't meet my usual activity levels and as such I'm sticking out like a sore thumb and am probably single-handedly losing the game for town.

I think I'll just shut up at this point and only answer direct questions.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: MACAVITYLOCK

[Kublai Khan]

Man, this was the slowest place game I'm ever been in. Drove me kinda nuts.

Scum quicktopic is here: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/2gZtgkjJDLfp

CDB was a really absent partner. Don't know if he had stuff going on or if it's his usual style, but I couldn't really get used to it.

Korts, the setup was great. I meant what I said about it being too balanced. It was my first deep south setup.

I was bummed that I was run-up and lynched without being able to offer some sort of counter-argument or defense. It was a bit of a mistake move, but with people suspecting me because I drove both town mislynches, I figured I was pretty much going to be the lynch anyways. Didn't hurt to take someone out with me. I think it was probably my only real mistake, but in a game where everyone lurked, it rang huge alarms.

And Porochaz was in a bad spot as scum replacement. I think the only way he might have had a chance was to claim Super-Saint, but he couldn't have known there were only blank vigs left.

[Kublai Khan]

.. but I wanted Porochaz to claim super-saint. Then I could hammer him.

Eh, yeah. I guess there was no hope for Poro. Sucks.

[Kublai Khan]

And Porochaz was in a bad spot as scum replacement. I think the only way he might have had a chance was to claim Super-Saint, but he couldn't have known there were only blank vigs left.

I may be missing something obvious, but why was a Vig (blank or not) claim out of bounds?

It wasn't.. But it's similar to a vanilla townie claim in that it wouldn't discourage a lynch after one considers CDB's play.