/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[charter]

^Thanks.

That's...actually a really good point. Post 102 is really, really odd.

I really don't understand your logic at all, B&B. How is it that you thought you should vote for your #2 suspect rather then your #1 suspect because it was early in the game?

Yeah I know, bad logic, right? That's why I decided to vote for E_k instead, because she's my number 1 logic. Although, I don't like* Xyl because of his vote on Yosarian. Don't like the reasoning of "last to confirm."

Please respond to the concerns of the people voting you instead of ignoring them and giving us this, because this said nothing. Why are you still clinging to Xyl's bad vote like this? It's quite clear we aren't going to get anything useful out of him anytime soon.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

There's something I need to say about post 149, but now is not the time. Can someone please remind me (or remind myself) to do this later, probably like 10 pages from now or more.

@Charter, there is no case for me to defend against. I've been ignoring the votes on me because most of them don't have a reason posted with them. I'm fine with reasonless votes, they make wagons to read and I'm already collecting info from the one on me. They're also find to add pressure to make people react (this was my vote on Xyl supposed to do. I was sort of exagerating the strength of my case)

Anyway these are the people voting for me:

Thesp

"Most likely to be scum by far. " No reason for me to defend.

Charter

"vote BridgesAndBaloons for post 102. That part there seems especially scummy to me. " I'm not sure how me thinking the xyl wagon will continue without me is scummy. And you still haven't explained.

inhimshall

"BridgesandBalloons keeps getting mentioned. I'll take the good odds of good Townies and bussing scum. " - just going with the wagon and doesn't explain

SerialClergy

man, he says that my post 102 is weird, and that my thought that Xyl will continue is "ridiculous." I don't think wierd or ridiculous are scummy, so I'm not sure how to defend against those.

Rofl

- "they're equally scum, so i'm gonna put my momentum where it counts" again, no explanation for me to defend against.

Ekim

- "unvote; vote: BridgesandBalloons Strange behavior. " again, I can't defend against the word "strange."

I'm not calling these people scummy

yet...

for withholding their reasons, but without reasons attacking me, I can't defend anything.

On the other hand there are reasons for the Elvis Wagon which she seems to be completely ignoring. Her stretching the case on Kmd is totally forced and scummy.

[mith]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

BridgesAndBaloons: 6 (charter, ekiM, inHimshallibe, roflcopter, SerialClergyman, Thesp)
elvis_knits: 5 (BridgesAndBaloons, Claus, Herodotus, Kmd4390, zu_Faul)
ekiM: 2 (VP Baltar, Xylthixlm)
alexhans: 1 (iamausername)
Claus: 1 (alexhans)
Kmd4390: 1 (elvis_knits)
Shabba: 1 (Yosarian2)
Xylthixlm: 1 (populartajo)
Yosarian2: 1 (Shabba)

Not Voting: 1 (Ojanen)

[Xylthixlm]

Charter, did you just criticize BB for ignoring attacks while saying I'm a bad wagon because I'm ignoring attacks?

[charter]

Well, three people said you (BAB) were scummy, two more don't just seem to be bandwagon votes, and one does. You apparently don't have a clue why people are voting you, so you don't even care to find out? Are you just hoping suspicion on you is going to blow right over by pretending like no one is voting you?

I will elaborate on why I find you suspicious. In 102, you say you then realized that waiting to vote Elvis is stupid, but you didn't realize anything. Kmd questioned you on your Hos, and a whopping seven minutes after the Hos, you apparently had this epiphany. It's an overly convoluted way of leaving the Xyl wagon, why go through all that rather than saying 'I find Elvis more scummy'?

Another thing I didn't like was the 'Xyl wagon will continue without me' comment. What led you to think that by unvoting him, his wagon would continue?

More things I find questionable about your play:
I feel that your change in opinion from the stance you held in 92 and 102 was brought round solely by Kmd questioning you.
Your initial vote for Xyl came after post 66, and was cast with no reasons posted, but then after others voiced suspicion of Xyl, you cite post 66 as scummy. Not when you make your initial vote.

Charter, did you just criticize BB for ignoring attacks while saying I'm a bad wagon because I'm ignoring attacks?

No. BAB was ignoring the votes on him. You acknowledged them but were going out of your way to be unhelpful.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Well, three people said you (BAB) were scummy, two more don't just seem to be bandwagon votes, and one does. You apparently don't have a clue why people are voting you, so you don't even care to find out?

Are you familiar with how mafia works? Just kidding. But seriously, they will explain their votes later. I trust that there's reasons they didn't want to explain now, but when they

do

explain their votes, I'll be ready to defend. Until then, I can't really do anything. I'm not going throw a hissy fit and demand an explanation.

Are you just hoping suspicion on you is going to blow right over by pretending like no one is voting you?

What? You seem to be twisting the facts. In my previous post, I explained that no one posted their reasons, and so I couldn't respond to anything.

I don't understand why you are not attacking Elvis. Elvis has almost as many votes as me, and she's been ignoring the votes on her. You staying off of her wagon is odd

---
I'm not quoting the rest of your post I'll just respond to it.

After Kmd brought up the issue, I spent 5 minutes (which is a pretty long time considering how fast the mind works) thinking and yes, I realized that I should vote for who I thought was scummiest. He didn't change my mind, he made me rethink my actions. All by myself I decided to vote E_k.

Also, I find Elvis more scummy. I'm not avoiding that. I believe I said that on post 102: "E_k seems like a more legitimate vote" meaning more legitamate than Xyl thus scummier.

Another question: someone says something that makes me think and then I change my mind. How is this scummy?

Your initial vote for Xyl came after post 66, and was cast with no reasons posted, but then after others voiced suspicion of Xyl, you cite post 66 as scummy. Not when you make your initial vote.

How is this scummy? Unexplained votes are not scummy.

[charter]

What? You seem to be twisting the facts. In my previous post, I explained that no one posted their reasons, and so I couldn't respond to anything.

Well, I was more of asking to post something worth posting, like a response to votes on you, instead of posts like 148.

I don't understand why you are not attacking Elvis. Elvis has almost as many votes as me, and she's been ignoring the votes on her. You staying off of her wagon is odd

I don't find Elvis scummy. She hasn't ignored the votes on her either. She responded to accusations in post 137 (maybe others, didn't look hard). Why is my in particular staying off her wagon odd? Why should I have to join it?

Another question: someone says something that makes me think and then I change my mind. How is this scummy?

It's not. It's how you left the Xyl wagon.

How is this scummy? Unexplained votes are not scummy.

I didn't say they are. I said that how you came back after Xyl had a wagon to repeat what others said and essentially shove legit reasons under your RVS vote was scummy.

And, asking this again.

Another thing I didn't like was the 'Xyl wagon will continue without me' comment. What led you to think that by unvoting him, his wagon would continue?

[Claus]

Replying Elvis Scum

1) Why was my vote on Xyl opportunistic? Do you think his vote on Yos was good?

It was a 4th vote on a bandwagon, with a joke reason,

when you had already random voted before

- if you honestly just wanted to join a wagon for the heck of it, you would have done it when you voted inhim.

Also. you questioning me about Xyl's votes says that you are trying to change your story from a joke vote ("I don't like cats") into a serious vote ("bad vote on yos"). You're being malicious all around, Elvis.

2) Where did I overreact and why is that a scum tell?

That's the impression I get from reading 94. It reads too nervous for a second vote, like someone who was not expecting to be caught redhanded trying to sneak into a wagon.

3) My definition of OMGUS is counterattacking/countervoting a person for NO OTHER REASON than they voted you.

Yes. And this is what you're doing towards KMD. You are attacking him with an easy reason ("SLIP SLIP") to try and discredit his attack. Your stated "reasons" are frivolous and malicious.

4) Explain the "malicious" part.

You vote KMD because you say he never said "I assumed", but he actually does say that:

There are exactly four scum in this game? ORLY?

4 scum plus a traitor.

(... skip ...)

I think this is a potential slip,(...)

I actually thought we had 16 players and

assumed

25%,

Of course, when you quote KMD on 97, you cut away the "assume". That is malicious to me.

But are we really in the business of letting players name the scum team without giving any reasons whatsoever? There's no indication he's joking there. He says it's "not random."

I personally encourage that. I love it when people play with their cards open in the table. Of course, giving reasons would be even better, but I settle for knowing who each player suspects, whatever the reason. (I may not agree with them about their scumlist, or even find the list itself scummy, but that's another story completely)

====

@alexhans

Then it would be better for you to leave him alive and lynch some other player, wouldn't it? Unless you have a scum read... Have you?

I guess you didn't get the memo where it says I'm not voting Yos anymore. (He's currently yellow on my "YoScum radar. I'm waiting for Yos to contribute more).

Right now I find Elvis to be scum. Her vote on Xyl was opportunistic, and her attack on KMD was desperate, shallow and reaching. What do you think about that?

====

@ROFLcopter

elvis wagon is weaksauce. claus' attack against elvis seems primarily like a means to discredit wagons on either kmd or bnb, which is chainsawriffic.

My primary goal of my Elvis vote is to Lynch her. Her attack on Kmd, which was reaching and malicious, was indeed a big factor for me to find her scummy - is attacking a player because of his/her bad logic that bad? However, I don't have a strong opinion either way on the BnB wagon at the moment.

My points on Elvis is that she tried to creep into the Xyl wagon (and now is changing her story about whether she found Xyl scummy or was just bandwagoning for fun), and when Kmd called her on it, she overreacted and started a reaching/misrep case on Kmd.

How much do you disagree with this?

[populartajo]

Here I am. Quoting some things that caught my attention.

Elvis in 27 is very eager and agressive with last to confirm weaktell. Slightly towntell from her here.

Claus 29 confusing Elvis with farside. As I said, its unlikely that if Elvis is scum, Claus is his partner.

Alexhans feels very relaxed in his first posts. I know he plays on irc, though. How experienced would you consider yourself alex?

Thesp asks a lot of questions. Interesting ice breaker. Thesp any conclusions of your questionnaire? What is your opinion of random voting?

On a related note, I would have wanted to place a wagon vote on someone, but had no interest in the options available.

Why not?

Xyl 66 is an interesting move unvoting me and voting Yos. How random would you consider that vote? What made Yos more suspicious on the late-confirming-scum front?

Charter 77 is agressive charter attacking Xyl. Slight towntell from him here.

Xyl 79 is dumb.

Wagon on Xyl starts with Elvis. Mike follows. BaB who was voting him already reinforces his position.

KMD avoids the wagon in 90.

Vote Elvis_Knits

Not random. Buddies are Bridges, ekiM, and Xyl.

Any particular reason? Why did you prefer Elvis over Xyl?

Elvis 94. Did you check the op when you made your slip accusation?

ITP I am not voting for Xyl.

Why not?

kmd, what made you think there were only 16 players?

101 is a good question from Kmd and I dont like how Bab reacts to the pressure.

Thesp 112 is a very strong post. It so goes against the popular options.

For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either.

Tell me what made you think that.

I don't think anyone has done the math on people who are active all over the site but wait an extra 24 hours to confirm

I dont understand this reasoning. Can you rephrase, Xyl?

Lol sock puppet attack.

Claus, I actually have a different meta from Mikescum. Can you point me to that game?

BGs

Yos
BnB

GGs

rofl
Xyl

What does this mean?

Rolf agressive and polemic in 140 eating the elvis wagon.

Um, the "1 in 5 players in a 20 player game is probably scum" thing was a joke.

I dont remember you joking very much in our games together. Do you usually joke with accusations?

Charter is being his usual aggressive town meta. I like his tone. BaB deflection attention to Elvis and trying to tie him with charter is weak.

So, in conclsuion, I dont like the Elvis wagon very much. She is being genuinely agressive, at least thats the overall tone I get from her posts. My experience with her tells me that Elviscum is more likely to not be that agressive and be more lenient when her ideas are being criticized.

Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things. I so like this direction. Anyone want to join me?

Vote : Mike.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I am really furious with Charter right now because of how he seems to be completely missing all of my posts, and I really can't respond to him right now or I'll just be mean. Tomorrow I'll make a civil response when I have a level head.

I mean, normally I'd write something full of expletives like "you are stupid" blah blah blah, but I wouldn't mean offense by it, but people

are

offended by posts like that, and I don't want that to happen. So I'll respond to him tomorrow.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm not feeling scum from BAB.

Herodotus, Ojanen, Shabba, and zu_Faul seem to be lurking under the radar. VP Baltar is borderline.

[Shabba]

I don't mean to lurk...school is about to start and I have tons of preparations...I think i'll have more time to read again tomorrow after I get home.

[inHimshallibe]

I'm not feeling scum from BAB.

Herodotus, Ojanen, Shabba, and zu_Faul seem to be lurking under the radar. VP Baltar is borderline.

Remember this post if I'm wrong and Xyl is scum.

BG = bad guy
GG = good guy

charter is doing some heavy lifting.

[charter]

Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?

charter is doing some heavy lifting.

What does this mean?

[elvis_knits]

^Thanks.

That's...actually a really good point. Post 102 is really, really odd.

I really don't understand your logic at all, B&B. How is it that you thought you should vote for your #2 suspect rather then your #1 suspect because it was early in the game?

Yeah I know, bad logic, right? That's why I decided to vote for E_k instead, because she's my number 1 logic. Although, I don't like* Xyl because of his vote on Yosarian. Don't like the reasoning of "last to confirm."

What is your logic for voting me? Now that you realize I was right on the 4 scum front, being that there is absolutely no reason to assume that, why are you voting me?

On the other hand there are reasons for the Elvis Wagon which she seems to be completely ignoring. Her stretching the case on Kmd is totally forced and scummy.

What am I ignoring? That seems like an obvious misstatement. I've been responding to everything.

---

KMD, if you are saying your statement of "4 scum plus a traitor" was your assumption, why did you assume that?

And I want reasons for your scum list. Saying it's your gut is not good enough.

---

Replying to CLaus in next post since I don't want to make this one epic and annoying.

[elvis_knits]

Replying Elvis Scum

1) Why was my vote on Xyl opportunistic? Do you think his vote on Yos was good?

It was a 4th vote on a bandwagon, with a joke reason,

when you had already random voted before

- if you honestly just wanted to join a wagon for the heck of it, you would have done it when you voted inhim.

Also. you questioning me about Xyl's votes says that you are trying to change your story from a joke vote ("I don't like cats") into a serious vote ("bad vote on yos"). You're being malicious all around, Elvis.

Well, you got me there. I actually had no reason for voting Xyl other than to push his lynch for my own dastardly purposes, and thought nobody would notice if I just said I hate cats. It was winning strategy obviously.

Seriously though, I can see in hindsight that I should have been serious while giving my reason, and making a joke at that time was stupid. I made the cat joke because I didn't like xyl's vote on Yos, combined with his joke explanation of "the cat made me do it." So I responded with something equally as ridiculous, giving my reason for voting him as "I hate cats." Also I'm allergic to cats, so this really is funny to me.

But if you choose not to believe me, I guess I can't blame you since you have to take my word for it to a certain extent. But from my POV, my behavior doesn't really make sense any other way. I mean, what possible scum motivation is there for acting like such a dumbass?

2) Where did I overreact and why is that a scum tell?

That's the impression I get from reading 94. It reads too nervous for a second vote, like someone who was not expecting to be caught redhanded trying to sneak into a wagon.

You must think I'm really lame if you think that's how I "sneak" onto a wagon. I could have camoflauged myself much better if I was trying to hide. But w/e.

I had no idea that's why kmd was voting me. He has never said his reasons. And I was more concerned with him having extra info than just him voting me.

3) My definition of OMGUS is counterattacking/countervoting a person for NO OTHER REASON than they voted you.

Yes. And this is what you're doing towards KMD. You are attacking him with an easy reason ("SLIP SLIP") to try and discredit his attack. Your stated "reasons" are frivolous and malicious.

Why do you think my attack isn't genuine? Even if you don't believe in slips, why do you think it's impossible that any other player could disagree with you? I think you're being unreasonable here.

4) Explain the "malicious" part.

You vote KMD because you say he never said "I assumed", but he actually does say that:

There are exactly four scum in this game? ORLY?

4 scum plus a traitor.

(... skip ...)

I think this is a potential slip,(...)

I actually thought we had 16 players and

assumed

25%,

Of course, when you quote KMD on 97, you cut away the "assume". That is malicious to me.

I think I ignored that because he was talking about the game having 16 players, which it does not. Now that you make me look at it, maybe that does muddy the waters a little. I just thought his answer of "4 scum plus a traitor" was more definitive than I would expect someone sound if they didn't actually know the number. I would have expected him to lead with his percentages and say it was a guess, not just give me the answer with no reasoning until later.

Furthermore, his story hasn't been the same. First he told me "4 scum plus a traitor" which I think is pretty definitive, then he said it was an assumption, and recently he said

Yeah, it wasn't random. It was gut. Those were the 4 players who stood out as scum.

Which seems to sidestep the numbers issue completely. If he wasn't choosing 4 players because he wanted to fill the 4 scum slots, but just because he saw 4 scummy people, why didn't he say that in the beginning?

[elvis_knits]

Sorry for the triple post, but there's a few things I don't understand.

Claus, why do you have a problem with me making a cat joke when voting xyl, but no problem with Xyl joining the Yos wagon because the cat made him do it?

Why do you have a problem with my cat joke (you think I lack an actual reason), when kmd voted me with no specified reason and named a whole scum list with no reasons?

[Herodotus]

@Xyl: I feel like the game has barely started. That's probably why I seem to be lurking. I haven't even checked yet to see whether every player has posted since confirmations.

@PT: Because I didn't see any scumtells from any of the players with votes. I didn't see any from Ojanen, either, but I figured a random vote from myself was unquantifiably more likely to hit scum than a random vote from a player of unknown alignment. My reason was entirely made up after the vote (though since he's only posted once, it seems it was a good reason in hindsight.)

Thesp 112 is a very strong post. It so goes against the popular options.

In what ways? The first 2/3rds looks like filler, and I don't see anything radical in the last third.

So by meta, Elvis is more aggressive when town. That doesn't mean she wouldn't fake it as scum.

I just thought his answer of "4 scum plus a traitor" was more definitive than I would expect someone sound if they didn't actually know the number. I would have expected him to lead with his percentages and say it was a guess, not just give me the answer with no reasoning until later.

Furthermore, his story hasn't been the same. First he told me "4 scum plus a traitor" which I think is pretty definitive, then he said it was an assumption, and recently he said

Yeah, it wasn't random. It was gut. Those were the 4 players who stood out as scum.

Which seems to sidestep the numbers issue completely. If he wasn't choosing 4 players because he wanted to fill the 4 scum slots, but just because he saw 4 scummy people, why didn't he say that in the beginning?

To me, it looked obvious that he was throwing out a (reasonable) number half-jokingly. Just like when VP Baltar said he had PMed his scumbuddies. In both cases, the players weren't seriously claiming to be scum; it was mostly for the joke but possibly also as bait to see if scum would attack them for it.

BaB's 100 and 102 look like a natural flow resulting from indecision. Elvis had made a few posts prior to 100, leading to BaB's suspicions. Then the switch from a HoS to a vote, which was not likely planned on his part. Indecision about voting doesn't seem like a scumtell a priori.

[Thesp]

I would like to know a few things about you thesp:
1- did your crack team of investigators come to any conclusion about Yos?
2- Which of the answers to your questions would you say were signs of pro-town/anti-town alignment? Which were interesting in other ways?
3- I'm interested in your scumread of BaB, would you elaborate?
4- What do you think about E_K?

1 - Sadly, no. They are still working him over, though, but they are more than a little intimidated by his giant sock puppet monster. (Unfortunately, my crack team of investigators is thimble-sized.)
2 - Any indicators were only very mild if at all useful. I found several answers humorous, though.
3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
4 - I think she's town and wrong.

Thesp:
I'm get a few scummy vibes from thesp - he's playing with his cards too close to his chest.

I appreciate your close reading.

Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?

Sure!

Really though, I'd say 4 or 5. Still thinking 4 plus a traitor.

Why bother?

Thesp any conclusions of your questionnaire? What is your opinion of random voting?

Not much, though I like getting the talking going some. (Not sure how much ended up being necessary on my part.) I increasingly despise random voting.

For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either.

Tell me what made you think that.

I think kmd3490 was making a semi-random-semi-informed prediction as to who was scum just for giggles/reactions/boldness. It doesn't seem so extraordinary (though I can see why it might appear that way).

Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things.

Like what?

Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?

:goodposting:


I like the BridgesAndBaloons wagon - needs more participants. I'd also like to hear what VP Baltar's thoguhts are on things.

[elvis_knits]

Elvis seems to want us to believe that she believes in it, but I'm not sure whether she does.

What is your evidence for thinking I'm a liar? You seem to be saying "We can't be sure she's telling the truth, so I'm going to assume she's a liar."

So by meta, Elvis is more aggressive when town. That doesn't mean she wouldn't fake it as scum.

So what makes you think I'm faking it? What is the point of meta if you're going to discount it?

Herodotus seems to be able to SEE that there is reason to believe I am town, but he's choosing to think that I am scum for reasons I can't see.

[ekiM]

Unexpected V/LA until the 19th (Wednesday). No access. Sorry.

[Herodotus]

@Elvis: I don't understand why you would be so confident about your case on KMD. I considered the "slip" to be a null-tell, and expected others would see that as well. You took it as a basis for a case in a situation where I would expect you not to seriously consider it one. That looks a bit like you're just trying to appear aggressive rather than seeking something that is genuinely scummy.

So I'm not assuming that you're lying; the issue is more that I don't understand why you would really believe what you're saying. And that is more suspicious than the other issues that have been raised.

[elvis_knits]

Well now I'm second-guessing myself and feeling like I'm playing this game really badly, but all I can tell you is that it did seem like a very strong case to me at the time, and I still think kmd's behavior is strange. He seemed SURE about the number to me, not like it was a guess. One of the things I always look for is someone who sounds like they know more than they should, and that's what kmd sounded like. I even asked him if he knew there were EXACTLY four scum, and he said "4 scum and a traitor." I asked him if he knew it was exact, and he didn't say, he wasn't sure it was exact. My thinking was that he knew the number because he is scum, and he thought that was common knowledge so he didn't try to hide it.

[VP Baltar]

Catching up from my last post, apologies if some of these things end up getting covered as I go through:

I don't think BridgesAndBaloons is scum for positing a particular number of scum.

Why did you vote him at that point then? I thought it was over the number of scum speculation.

@VP- Baltar: What do you think of E_K and the E_K wagon?

I think her attack on Kmd was pretty weak, and she acted a bit strangely when attacked in reply. I think the wagon is probably warranted to get a better read on her.

@Herodotus--what are your feelings on ekiM, particularly his 'one of these 5 are scum' post?

I don't. Any comments from me right now beyond what I've said would be a distraction more than anything else. I could start calling some people probable-town, but don't see much point in that so far. I could make some other accusations, but I'd rather see more pages first.

BTW, I really hate this post. Scum excuses to not participate irk me.

Um, the "1 in 5 players in a 20 player game is probably scum" thing was a joke.

I'm a bit slow, explain what was funny about it.

VP Baltar, why'd you wait for Xyl to vote me before voting me? You'd already seen the post that offended you so.

I had done a reread before the post where I voted you. It stuck out to me on that reread.

@BnB--do you feel a majority of the votes on you are merely for bandwagoning purposes and/or are the result of lazy play?

@Claus-I've noticed that you repeatedly used the word "malicious" to describe EK's attack on Kmd, can you explain to me specificially what was "malicious" about it?

----

OK, think I'm caught up now.

[inHimshallibe]

Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?

charter is doing some heavy lifting.

What does this mean?

To note, Xyl did not list me. Thesp is noted for agreeing with all this post. But, the fact does remain that I've not posted a ton.

Late p.m. CST is a very usual time for me to check in.

And I didn't think that post was empty. : /

I don't believe elvis is being anything but a little zealous. Not out of the norm for her, it's null.