Newbie 818 (Game Over)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:05 pm

Post by adamrights »

Kirbyoshi wrote:
adamrights wrote:You do seem really afraid to get lynched now, but that's a null-tell I'm guessing, especially on day 1.
And I suppose you're completely ok with getting lynched? I mean, you did basically ask for people to vote for you.
Actually, I never did that. I simply said if you THINK I'm scum vote for me, and that was much earlier in the day, and you only seem to be bringing it up as a distraction.

Also...by null-tell I mean NOT a tell, so I wasn't saying this was scummy of you, and I only noted the change in tone, although now, your reaction seems scummy.

It's as if you did not take the time to actually read what I wrote because you know your scum and you just need to deflect the attention.
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:10 pm

Post by Kirbyoshi »

I understand that, but why would you "just guess" about that if it's so obvious that it wasn't a scumtell? Why even post it if it's not really important?
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:09 pm

Post by Katy »

I was going to take a look at Deep Blue, but just pulling up his iso, I see it's been about 4 days since he's posted? The last post I see says Aug. 7. I'll wait to see what happens with that, and then take a look when he comes back or is replaced.
To the veterans, I have a question: how reputable and how relevant is information that doesn’t come from directly inside the game in Mafia Scum?
I use it quite often and I get it used on me all the time. It's something that's impossible to ignore when you play frequently with people. At the place I originally played, I have been in games with some people for almost two years now. It's a useful tool when you have enough information to use it - it's like playing poker with someone a lot - their tells start to become more apparent. Here, however, I don't have that benefit, and basing it on one game only is only of slight value, I think. In a game like this, we're more likely to find scum based on what's happening here and now since we barely know each other.

adamrights wrote:Would a goon and a role-blocker really act differently? Also, claiming there's a doctor -- it seems like you might know the setup of this game…is that because you’re the scum and made a newbie slip up revealing that knowledge?
I think the role discussion by Kirb is unfortunate, but I don't get a scummy vibe from it. This is his very first game and this seems much more like a newb mistake than a scum mistake. I am trying to imagine if this were my first game, and I were scum and was or my partner was an RB if I would start discussing roles in the thread. My thought is no. Kirb strikes me as an overeager new player who's read up on some games and came in wanting to talk, his initial posts illustrate that pretty well. I don't think he was familiar enough yet with what is and isn't productive discussion and he went a little overboard.
Exalt wrote:Adam, I agree that he COULD be scum, but what I don't like is the fashion everyone jumped on the wagon. I just don't like it. It tingles my scumdar quite a bit.
It's a bit of an exaggeration to say everyone jumped on the wagon. Adamrights's point is not a bad one, I just don't think it's necessarily a scumtell in this case. I do think it's interesting that as I see it, Adamrights was mostly pushing Kirb not for the role talk but for trying to rush a lynch of himself, and then once Mitey Mouse pulled the role speculation post out of Adam's list of points and put it in a much more suspicious light, Adam suddenly did pretty much the same thing he was voting Kirb for:
Unless someone else has some further insight I believe my vote on Kirb is the best bet for the town -- it's a slip-up we have to capitalize on.
If you think it's scummy to try to rush a lynch of someone when they are appearing scummy, why did you try to do it once you had some support for your vote?

I agree that we're coming up to deadline so we need to get down to business, but at that point we at least had time to hear from Kirb before "capitalizing on the slip-up" and lynching him right away.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:25 pm

Post by Kirbyoshi »

@Katy: What's your view on Pablo at this point? I'm kinda getting mixed signals from him, like he's acting sorta pro-town(ish?), but in a sarcastic and abrasive way, which could tell that he's scum, or that he's just stressed.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:58 pm

Post by adamrights »

I don't like how you represented me Katy.
Katy wrote:
Exalt wrote:Adam, I agree that he COULD be scum, but what I don't like is the fashion everyone jumped on the wagon. I just don't like it. It tingles my scumdar quite a bit.
Adamrights was mostly pushing Kirb not for the role talk but for trying to rush a lynch of himself, and then once Mitey Mouse pulled the role speculation post out of Adam's list of points and put it in a much more suspicious light, Adam suddenly did pretty much the same thing he was voting Kirb for:
You are quoting Exalt and then making like it is my point. Nonetheless, in my post against Kirb I specifically stated it is his fast rush to vote for me combined with his slip-up on RB. And, it really is the slip-up that makes the vote on me then seem scummier because he would have the knowledge that I'm town and yet could get away with trying to lynch me (if he didn't make the slip up).

You misrepresent me by making it like I only emphasized that argument after others jumped in.
adamrights wrote: Unless someone else has some further insight I believe my vote on Kirb is the best bet for the town -- it's a slip-up we have to capitalize on.
Katy wrote: If you think it's scummy to try to rush a lynch of someone when they are appearing scummy, why did you try to do it once you had some support for your vote?

I agree that we're coming up to deadline so we need to get down to business, but at that point we at least had time to hear from Kirb before "capitalizing on the slip-up" and lynching him right away.
I'm encouraging people to vote to lynch Kirb, because I believe we should take advantage of his slip-up. Capitalizing on his slip-up does not equal lynching him without hearing him speak. I would assume if anyone dropped the hammer before letting him speak that would be a huge scum tell.

So making it like I tried to encourage the town to rush a vote on him without letting him speak is just not true.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:12 am

Post by Pomegranate »

I need to do a reread. I know that Pablo wants some content from me (I'm sure the rest of you do too) so I should be able to post some thoughts by tonight or tomorrow morning.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:35 am

Post by Exalt »

When's our deadline? I was gone all yesterday to go to chicago bears training camp... and Friday I'll be gone all day too... I'm going to a cubs game.


So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:37 am

Post by Pomegranate »

Exalt wrote:When's our deadline? I was gone all yesterday to go to chicago bears training camp... and Friday I'll be gone all day too... I'm going to a cubs game.


So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.
Deadline is Friday.
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:47 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

Exalt wrote:So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.
You might wanna read rule 13 in post 2. Basically if a majority is not reached by the deadline, the person with the most votes is lynched.
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:49 am

Post by Exalt »

Pomegranate wrote:
Exalt wrote:When's our deadline? I was gone all yesterday to go to chicago bears training camp... and Friday I'll be gone all day too... I'm going to a cubs game.


So I have today and tomorrow really to post as much as possible and hopefully we can come up with someone before the deadline. I don't want a NL.
Deadline is Friday.
Ok.



@ Everyone: One more time... please give me your scum list if possible.

Who are your top 2 and why? That's all I want... we don't need possible NK crap going on here... just top 2 scum and why.

I realize you might have said this before, but we need to figure shit out fast.


So far the two wagons are adamrights and kirby.... Is everyone comfortable with these two as possibilities or not? Either way, please state why.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:59 am

Post by Pomegranate »

Exalt:
I need time to make a scumlist and whatnot, but adamrights is scummy. Period. I'm not so sure about Kirby, but I have a gut feeling that he's a townie. The things that are viewed as scummy by other people just seem to be newbie actions to me.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:09 am

Post by MiteyMouse »

Hohum...can we get a deadline extension once DB's replacement gets here? To allow them a chance to read up...please!
The more I see, the less I know
The more I'd like to let it go.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:11 am

Post by Pomegranate »

MiteyMouse wrote:
Hohum...can we get a deadline extension once DB's replacement gets here? To allow them a chance to read up...please!
Makes sense. Is reasonable. I
Second that
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:14 am

Post by hohum »

Rule 14 wrote:14.
One daytime deadline extension
of up to one week may be granted at the moderator's discretion in extreme circumstances and only if activity levels aren't impairing game progress.
Though I've had to continually prod in this game the activity level has kept up reasonably well with the exception of a few dry spells here and there. I don't believe that having to find only one replacement qualifies as extenuating circumstances; however, I will grant one if and only if the rest of your fellow players agree that it is the best course of action.

If I do grant the deadline extension you will not get another one.

Do you want to reconsider?
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:14 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

Pomegranate wrote:Exalt:
I need time to make a scumlist and whatnot, but adamrights is scummy. Period. I'm not so sure about Kirby, but I have a gut feeling that he's a townie. The things that are viewed as scummy by other people just seem to be newbie actions to me.
Your vote isn't on adam, so he obviously isn't your top scum prospect. But thanks for defending me. Seems like Pablo's the only one that's really going after me. adam and Mitey voted for me, but Pablo keeps bringing things up that I've already said I did because I'm newbish.

#1 on my scumlist is obviously adamrights. Even his most recent post said he "didn't like the way Katy represented him." I actually see Katy as the wisest player here (which I don't guess is saying much, but w/e) so I would take whatever she says at face value. My vote stays.

Pablo has been playing very abrasively, especially since I joined the game. I did some metagame research and found his previous game where he did basically the same thing: he played well, until his name was mentioned, then he basically blew up and called everyone idiots. He ended up being scum.

About Deep Blue: How long until he's replaced? He hasn't posted in like 5 days, and that still has me worried, and at least annoyed. We're getting so close to the deadline and he has nothing to say? Or maybe he's just afraid he's gonna give himself away...
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:16 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

If DB is going to be replaced soon, I think an extension might be in order, just to get his replacement familiarized with the game before he's had a chance to make an informed vote.
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:17 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

EBWOP: OOPS, "so he makes an informed vote" is what I meant :oops:
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:27 am

Post by MiteyMouse »

hohum wrote:
Rule 14 wrote:14.
One daytime deadline extension
of up to one week may be granted at the moderator's discretion in extreme circumstances and only if activity levels aren't impairing game progress.
Though I've had to continually prod in this game the activity level has kept up reasonably well with the exception of a few dry spells here and there. I don't believe that having to find only one replacement qualifies as extenuating circumstances; however, I will grant one if and only if the rest of your fellow players agree that it is the best course of action.

If I do grant the deadline extension you will not get another one.

Do you want to reconsider?
Eek...only one?!? Can we wait to see who we get first and see what they say?
The more I see, the less I know
The more I'd like to let it go.
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:33 am

Post by Pomegranate »

Dunno about the extension... as mentioned by MM, it depends on the replacement.
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:37 am

Post by hohum »

As I said, I'm looking for a consensus on the deadline extension.
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:48 am

Post by Katy »

Kirbyoshi wrote:@Katy: What's your view on Pablo at this point? I'm kinda getting mixed signals from him, like he's acting sorta pro-town(ish?), but in a sarcastic and abrasive way, which could tell that he's scum, or that he's just stressed.
I'm not sure what I think of Pablo yet. My read so far is that he is very actively scumhunting. On the other hand, he is an IC and having played one game with him, I know he is a good player and would be good scum as well.

The thing I am watching is that he sometimes seems to be setting little traps with the questions he asks and I wonder in a newbie game like this whether that's likely to catch scum, or just as likely to catch out a new player who isn't familiar with the game yet. I also think he knows that, so I'm watching to see if he takes that into account or he just piles onto whomever falls into his trap.

The one thing he's done that I really didn't like was voting for Kirb and then saying:
Finishing up my paper. Hopefully I can post later today and explain, but DAMN has Kirbyoshi rocketed to my #1. In the meantime, think about it yourselves.
Clearly he was in a rush, but I would find it more town had he given a hasty reasoning and said "I'll explain in more depth later" rather than urging everyone else to find the reasons for it while he was gone. That part strikes me as a little scummy, but not enough to put him to the top.

@Adamrights, maybe I'm misunderstanding you then. I'm aware that in your main post you gave Kirb's role talk as one reason you found suspicious, but the post in which you vote, you say:
Who to vote for? I like that Kirb is adding to discussion, but my reason for actually questioning his scummyness now is that if he knows I’m not scum and he came hard against me – isn’t that going to attract the town’s attention? Perhaps, but I was acting scummy enough that he could maybe blame it on that…so:
VOTE KIRB
It appears that this is the reason you are giving for your actual vote. It wasn't until Mitey Mouse threw another vote on that the "slip" turned into your main point of attack.

It's not that part of it that bothers me though--you're allowed to refine your argument and change focus, after all--it's the part where you turned around and said "Hey guys let's capitalize on this and get him!" which is no more than what Kirb did with you earlier and which was previously your main reason for your vote.

Right now my top two would be Adamrights and Deep Blue. Deep Blue seems to have been trying to go as long as he could without posting and when he did it was usually in a manner that seemed to avoid explanation. A lot of "I'll explain later" posts for someone who was barely posting in the first place. This was my impression without having done a detailed reread yet. Since it appears we're getting a replacement I'll go back and do that now and try to post my thoughts on his iso sometime tonight probably.
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:17 am

Post by adamrights »

Pomegranate wrote:Exalt:
I need time to make a scumlist and whatnot, but adamrights is scummy. Period. I'm not so sure about Kirby, but I have a gut feeling that he's a townie. The things that are viewed as scummy by other people just seem to be newbie actions to me.
Pom, I really don't like your attitude toward me. I'm not scum. I haven't played here before -- maybe I acted odd in the beginning, but seriously.

I'm down for a deadline extension. I need to do some thinking. After reading over all of Kirbs post I'm not as convinced he's scum...but this has more to do with my sneaking suspicion Pablo is 'playing' me. I really like this deadline extension...I'm at work now, though, so need to get off.
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:20 am

Post by adamrights »

Kirbyoshi wrote:If DB is going to be replaced soon, I think an extension might be in order, just to get his replacement familiarized with the game before he's had a chance to make an informed vote.
BTW, this seems pro-town to me.
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:32 am

Post by adamrights »

Katy wrote:
Finishing up my paper. Hopefully I can post later today and explain, but DAMN has Kirbyoshi rocketed to my #1. In the meantime, think about it yourselves.
Clearly he was in a rush, but I would find it more town had he given a hasty reasoning and said "I'll explain in more depth later" rather than urging everyone else to find the reasons for it while he was gone. That part strikes me as a little scummy, but not enough to put him to the top.

It's not that part of it that bothers me though--you're allowed to refine your argument and change focus, after all--it's the part where you turned around and said "Hey guys let's capitalize on this and get him!" which is no more than what Kirb did with you earlier and which was previously your main reason for your vote.
.
I see your point Katy, your right that it did sound like rushing. I should have written it better, but what I was getting at is that if this was a genuine slip up we need to capitalize on it, because getting a RB would be great for the town...now I'm just not sure.

As for Pablo, perhaps I fell for his defending of me, but I'm becoming more and more suspicious of him. Even that post you quoted -- I at first thought he wasn't giving the reasoning to see what others would say.

What game did you meta him from where he was scum. I checked Pablo's newbie games and he is acting different, but he was town in all those games...I'd like to see a scum-play example.
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:33 am

Post by adamrights »

UNVOTE

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