Newbie 814(over!)

[Vaya]

I understand though you're point though about the possibility of him being a roleblocker. It would be the only reason as of now I would even consider going along with lynching lego Day 2 over samhorn. But still, samhorn could be a mafia roleblocker too, so the argument doesn't hold much weight with me. I want to hear what the rest of the town thinks of my case against samhorn and whether we should lynch him or lego Day 2.

[Manzcar]

Actually I disagree the only way to know if you are telling the truth is to have discission and then lynch Lego

Lego we have a claim that you are scum by a claimed cop. You need to claim your role.

Also just because you claim cop does not mean you are not scum bussing your partner. The want to lynch an unknown is not in the best interest for the town.

Sam the claimed cop says you are the scum buddy to a confirmed scum what do you have to say for yourself.

[Vaya]

Actually I disagree the only way to know if you are telling the truth is to have discission and then lynch Lego

Also just because you claim cop does not mean you are not scum bussing your partner. The want to lynch an unknown is not in the best interest for the town.

As previously explained, it would be very stupid of me to make this claim if I were lying. If I were honestly trying to bus my partner like this, the mafia would be guaranteed to lose if there was a real cop and he counterclaimed or were killed off at night.

I disagree that wanting to lynch samhorn is not in the town's best interest. I think we'd gain more from seeing him flip today than we would lego, seeing as we already know lego is scum(unless you honestly want to doubt my claim). Explain the urgent need to lynch lego today, because right now, I'm not convinced that he's the better lynch target for today.

[atma]

Atma says

vote GOTOR13

clearly, GOTOR won't be contributing anything and it seems weird that he would bother to stop by but not say anything remotely useful. so I would be okay with this lynch.

But, also I would like to FOS Vaya, his last few posts just don't go over well with me, one is him using someone else's reasoning for his own vote without adding anything. Also, he was defending legomaniac, which seems odd. I'm pretty sure legomaniac can defend himself, just seems odd.

Vaya defends lego than lego says it makes no sense to think that Vaya is being scummy. I find the exchange between the two strange. Atma what do you think about this?

As I said then, I did find the exchange to be strange. It seemed to be like they were covering for each other. Now obviously, this is a bit moot now that Vaya has claimed cop, so I'll continue with that now.

Vaya, I'm going to assume you are really the cop because I can't see a situation in which mafia would fake claim cop right now. If you were fake claiming cop, it would make sense that you want to lynch sam because then we would get lego tomorrow and mafia wins right there, assuming you framed two people. But that seems highly unlikely.

I do believe it was a mistake to claim cop though. Legomaniac seemed likely to be lynched and it appears that he is scum. Right now, having claimed cop, you will die tomorrow night I believe. Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading that there is only one town power role. I would have preferred you waiting a night and getting another report. Hell, there might even be a mafia roleblocker, so I suppose you may live simply to be roleblocked.

If we lynch sam today like you say, it will be lylo tomorrow. We would then lynch lego, ending up in 3 way unclear lylo.

If we lynch lego today (once again, assuming he will flip scum), we end up with 5 people left, one being mafia. This gives us a mislynch. Thus, I believe lynching lego today is the best option.

The only reason we would not lynch lego today is if we believe you and how confident you are about sam being scum.

That being said, I am still on the fence about whether sam is scum or not. It is possible he is simply busy with his life. I'd like to see what he has to say at the very least before we make any effort at lynching him.

[atma]

Okay I was typing that all up before I saw the three or so latest posts, so Vaya the main point I want to get across is this: By lynching legomaniac today, if he is scum, we gain a mislynch tomorrow. If he is not scum, we find out that you are lying. Personally, I see no real reason not to lynch lego.

[Sudai]

Atma beat me to the punch. If we do decide to lynch, lets wait a few (real life) days though. I have to V/LA starting now through Tuesday as my Grandfather was hospitalized and my family is driving up to Kansas to visit him. (We live in Louisiana, split the drive into two days.) I'm going to attempt to get on at an internet cafe to keep up, but I can't guarantee that. Sorry guys.

[Vaya]

@atma

You may be right saying that it was a mistake to claim cop. However, I think your missing the point of why I claimed. It wasn't to confirm lego scum, it was to solidify my case against sam and to (hopefully) get the town to trust my case more because some of you seemed to think I was scummy.

As for you're question about the setup, town either has one power role, two power roles and a mafia roleblocker, or just none and there's a mafia roleblocker.

That being said, I am still on the fence about whether sam is scum or not. It is possible he is simply busy with his life. I'd like to see what he has to say at the very least before we make any effort at lynching him.

Keep in mind, my case against samhorn has little to do with how little he's posted. It's more about his interaction with lego(and lack of it). Of course we should listen to what he has to say before lynching him.

The point I'm trying to get across that is not being understood is that if we mislynch today, then lynch lego tomorrow and he flips scum, we're left in a three person lylo. But if we lynch lego, he flips scum, then mislynch tomorrow, we're in the same situation. I would prefer to go after the other scum today while I'm still alive. I understand why you would want to be safe and test my claim, because if I'm lying and you go along with what I'm saying town loses, but I've explained multiple times why I wouldn't risk making such a gambit if I were scum.

If you guys are really against lynching lego Day 3, I won't waste any more time objecting to what the majority of the town wants. I'm still not in favor of it though. Either way, town should still lynch samhorn though, whether its Day 2 or Day 3.

[atma]

Alright, I understand your point a little better now Vaya. From your point of view, it does make sense to lynch your suspect for the other scum, Sam. However, unfortunately, for the rest of us, we should be a little hesitant due to the fact that you could be lying, leading to a near instant town loss. You give us reasons why you would not fake cop, and while I am inclined to believe you are the real cop, it may not be best to follow you necessarily.

Here's what it comes down to I think. If we want to play it safe, to make absolutely sure we won't lose anytime soon, then we want to lynch lego today to see if he is scum and Vaya is really cop. There is a slight chance I suppose that Vaya could be lego's mafia buddy, but it seems very dangerous for Vaya to claim cop with the potential of there being a real cop.

If town is willing to be a bit more ballsy, we would listen to Vaya's idea and lynch someone today, likely sam as it looks now. We could then lynch lego regardless and if we're lucky, we won the game. If we're unlucky, Vaya won the game.

Anyone want to comment on my assessment of the situation? And would we prefer to take the safest route, or take a chance at Vaya being real cop/Sam being mafia?

Personally, I am leaning towards lynching legomaniac and taking the safe route, but I would like to hear from the rest of you before we end this day.

[Vaya]

You got it now atma. I understand the risk to the town, which is why I won't argue anymore if you guys want to lynch lego lynch first. But from my point of view, since I know I'm definitely not lying, I would prefer it if we lynched sam first. Either way, I want to hear from samhorn before we end the day.

[atma]

Okay so I took the opportunity to go back and read all of sam's posts, and Vaya is absolutely right about one thing: Sam simply has ignored lego completely. He has not said anything of worth to or about lego. I didn't notice this before, but I find it interesting at least. Sam was not very high on my list of suspects, which is why I said I was on the fence. This does kind of portray him in a negative light if we assume lego is scum. Then again Vaya, lynching lego on this day might actually help your case against sam for tomorrow, as we will know for certain whether lego is truly scum or not.

I also agree with Manzcar on something: I have found a reason to be suspicious of just about everybody, which makes this game that much harder. I would like sam to actually post, and I also would like to hear the rest of your opinions on the possibility of sam being scum, and who to lynch today.

[sam.samhorn]

Sorry I've been away -- business got the best of me, and I was gone this last weekend...

Now let me make sure I have everything up to date here with 100% accuracy. Vaya found lego as scum and noone counterclaimed the cop?

I'll post my thoughts on atma later today. Also, Vaya's criticism of me not addressing lego.

[atma]

Sam, you've been saying you'll post your thoughts on me for the past week or so. It seems you would know your reasons pretty well then, so I wonder why it is taking so long. Though I must say, it is much harder to create reasons for why I am mafia if you yourself are mafia.

[Manzcar]

Vaya says

As previously explained, it would be very stupid of me to make this claim if I were lying. If I were honestly trying to bus my partner like this, the mafia would be guaranteed to lose if there was a real cop and he counterclaimed or were killed off at night.

I disagree that wanting to lynch samhorn is not in the town's best interest. I think we'd gain more from seeing him flip today than we would lego, seeing as we already know lego is scum(unless you honestly want to doubt my claim). Explain the urgent need to lynch lego today, because right now, I'm not convinced that he's the better lynch target for today.

I know this has all been said before but I just have to say it.

It's not that I don't believe you. I actually do believe you but if we lynch a known scum the town is better off. What if sam isn't scum? You have to think of it that way as well. There is a chance sam isn't scum just playing a bad game. But with a lego lynch we are down one for certain scum who could be the roleblocker. I have lynched people that I was certain and willing to bet money on the fact that they were scum and they were not. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Lego is our only lynch for today.

Ohh and I do think sam is scummy but you have given us no other choice today but to lynch lego.

Lego and Sam I want you to post your rebuttals to these aqusations.

[legomaniac1128]

I find nothing scummy about sam. He's been adding a fair amount of quality to the game, and has been looking town. We should also consider little things such as atma's jump from a lot of content to little content. To me, he looks scummy.

Vote:atma

[legomaniac1128]

Has Vaya ever claimed cop? It's implied, but not said. Where does it say that Vaya is the cop, Manzacar?

[Vaya]

Lego, I stated that I was the cop on the last page, post 247.

And I want to point out that lego standing up for samhorn like this strengthens my case of them being scumbuddies.

[sam.samhorn]

Sam, you've been saying you'll post your thoughts on me for the past week or so. It seems you would know your reasons pretty well then, so I wonder why it is taking so long. Though I must say, it is much harder to create reasons for why I am mafia if you yourself are mafia.

I haven't had the time to sit down, reread your posts, and write my thoughts down yet.

I was away from the internet virtually all last week -- work and life got the better of me. Tomorrow -- I promise.

[Manzcar]

Vaya Lego following Sam looks to be perfect. He stands up for Sam he votes with Sam he follows Sam he's like Sam's lapdog. That doesn't feel right at all. No offense to Lego meant but he is either playing a very bad game or pretending to be playing a bad game. Lego is wanting everyone to lynch Sam. Why? You have to ask yourself why?

I stand by lynch Lego today and hunt for scum tomorrow. But I want the day to go on till th end so we can hear from Sam and there for no hammer till the end of the day.

Lego now that the cop claim has been verified what is your defense that you are scum?

[Vaya]

Vaya Lego following Sam looks to be perfect. He stands up for Sam he votes with Sam he follows Sam he's like Sam's lapdog. That doesn't feel right at all. No offense to Lego meant but he is either playing a very bad game or pretending to be playing a bad game. Lego is wanting everyone to lynch Sam. Why? You have to ask yourself why?

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest here. Are you say that lego's purposely acting like sam's buddy to get him lynched? Its a possibility, but I get a much stronger impression that he's not faking it based off of how he's played thus far.

Also, you've yet to give a good reason why we must lynch lego today. All you're saying is that we must lynch the confirmed scum because anyone else we lynch could be town. But as I already explained, there's no difference between lynching scum today and mislynching tomorrow, and mislynching today and getting the confirmed scum tomorrow.

[Manzcar]

Yes lego looks to be buddying up to sam to get him lynched that was my feeling.

Reasons to confirm a claimed scum day two.

1. lynching scum now is advantage to the town because it save one townie if a misslynch happens.
2. it confirms you as cop
3. if you are cop than there is a possibility that there is a doc lynching known scum saves a misslynch of the doc.
4. lynching known scum gives the possibility to lynch a possible roleblocker giving advantage to town
5. lynching known scum means, with a doc, you would have protection.
6. lynching know scum keeps us out of lylo.
7. lynching know scum is protown


Those are only the quick 7 good reasons that lynching lego is more protown than to lynching sam if I thought more about it I could come up with some more. I am willing to lynch lego and then go on from there. I think Sam is scummy, but lynching lego will clear up a lot more in my mind come day 3.


Let me know if you do not find these points as valid. I need everyone to weigh in on this issue.

Lego the claimed cop has fingered you as scum. Claim your role now!

[Vaya]

Most of your reasons don't mean much to me, but 3 is a good reason that I admit I hadn't considered. I guess its alright to lynch lego today because of the possibility of mislynching a doc.

About lego buddying up with sam, its impossible for us to know whether or not he's trying to trick us. Just don't get the impression that lego buddying up with samhorn is somehow evidence that samhorn may be town. For all you know, that could be just what lego wants you to think.

[Manzcar]

Yes it is wifom but we can put sam to the fire tomorrow and get rid of one confirmed scum in the mean time. It is a win for town.

[legomaniac1128]

Well, the cats out of the bag. I'm a plain old Goon. Nothing more, nothing less. I would provide more information, but I feel like having a bit of suspense in a game. An actor would know that the game isn't over till' the last mafia hangs. That's all I have to say. At least my scumbuddy learned something.
Hang me if you want, there's still one left!!!
And you'll never get him!!!

[Manzcar]

Well there you go an honest scum. Well Sam you have been called out by the claimed cop what do you have to say for yourself?

[atma]

No reason not to lynch lego today, IMO. Though we should wait for sam and for more conversation first.