Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!


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Post Post #900 (ISO) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:39 pm

Post by AndyTony »

MCD & Alduskkel

- My definition is OMGUS, different or not, corresponds with my actions, and my opinion on all of your uses and accusations of it.

*****I have had
reasoning
behind voicing suspicions to other people. I have NOT said someone is suspicious because they find ME suspicious (omgus).********


@MCD - I will find time to answer your questions regarding clarification with Pitstop - - you're asking me what put me off about her?

I will find time to answer tomorrow night or later - - but I do not want to find out this is yet another thing you're having me repeat. I'm sure I've already explained this once before.
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Post Post #901 (ISO) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:48 pm

Post by pablito »

I was a bit surprised that there were two quick votes for Khamisa. If there are votes to provoke a lurker, out of the gate in D2 is not the best time.

I'm liking this madcrawdad case on andytony.
madcrawdad wrote:Why did you think about unvoting, Pablito? Why couldn't you be arsed? How hard is it to type the word 'unvote'?

I didn't like the case at that moment, but fact was that we weren't getting anywhere and I'd much have rather had some lynch than nothing. In the end, I realized, I actually did like the case and wanted to keep my vote. Yeah, not the best reason, but whatever.

I can agree with KDub that Khamisa forgot about the doctor. Also I agree that mafia no-kill was stupid.

Khamisa really left a lot to desire with that response. But I think that the VLA can excuse that.

At the end of this read, I realise that wow, I really didn't contribute much.

In terms of all the definitions of OMGUS, it really doesn't matter what you call it, but I believe that subconsciously at some level, when one person feels on the defense, it's only natural to be suspicious of the other person. But there's also a quality of AT's OMGUSity that's strange. What I remember is that AT felt disappointment over MCD's case on AT. That's what brought it all on. I'll have to think a little more on what it would all mean to me especially in terms of scumminess.
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Post Post #902 (ISO) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:34 pm

Post by Alduskkel »

pablito wrote:I can agree with KDub that Khamisa forgot about the doctor.
Actually I said that.
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Post Post #903 (ISO) » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Post by ODDin »

AT: Defining OMGUS with votes is, indeed, limiting. The point of OMGUS is that when someone attacks the mafia, the mafia attacks back, since it's important for them to kill the one who might be onto them. Town, on the other hand, don't really care it's them specifically being attacked - they should defend only since it's an attack on someone who is, in their knowledge, 100% town.
So, it doesn't really have to include votes on either side. It's the fact that attacks and suspects someone because they've attacked and suspected him. Now, of course nobody will say that this is, in fact, their reason for striking back. They'll give arguments - or manufacture arguments out of thin air, as the case may be.
The crux of the question is whether your arguments against MCD are indeed fair arguments of a town member who finds something genuinely suspicious, or are they manufactured arguments of a scum member, whose main reason to attack MCD is because MCD put up a case against him.

This is, at any rate, how I understand that whole OMGUS argument against you.
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Post Post #904 (ISO) » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:11 am

Post by MadCrawdad »

AndyTony wrote:@MCD - I will find time to answer your questions regarding clarification with Pitstop - - you're asking me what put me off about her?

I will find time to answer tomorrow night or later - - but I do not want to find out this is yet another thing you're having me repeat. I'm sure I've already explained this once before.
Nope. You haven't explained it once before.

The fact that you've very quickly gone from asking (and apparently valuing) my opinion to trying to paint me as simply repetitive, when questioning you, has been noted. I'm thinking that I'm on to something here...
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Post Post #905 (ISO) » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:36 am

Post by MadCrawdad »

ABWOP:
AndyTony wrote:@MCD - I will find time to answer your questions regarding clarification with Pitstop - - you're asking me what put me off about her?
Just to clarify what I'm looking for, AT...

You claim that you didn't really accuse Pitstop of OMGUS, and that in your interaction you were just discussing his behavior and not really building a case, right? So when you said this to Pitstop, below, what made you so
very unsettled
? For something that you say you didn't really consider an OMGUS, and were just discussing, it apparently left you a little shaken. Why?
AndyTony wrote:I'm very unsettled at your omgus reaction to an innocent question - I made no statements that you were a liar, I asked for someone's opinion.
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Post Post #906 (ISO) » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:31 pm

Post by AndyTony »

AndyTony wrote: You just said
you want to consider me scum
for innocently questioning you
. That's
dangerously close to omgus
- -
"I suspect you for thinking I'm suspicious" - are you serious?


..............

I'm very unsettled at your [/u]omgus reaction to an innocent question[/u]
- I made no statements that you were a liar, I asked for someone's opinion.
MCD - -

In the very post in quesiton, I indeed answer the question you're asking me, so either you didn't see it (unlikely), you're playing a game (scummy), or you're wasting our time.

We all know what omgus behavior is - - I've displayed none of it.

I've been accused by hohum and Alduskkel of genuine acts of omgus - - I've displayed none of that either (with no votes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing I have done is omgus.

It can only be omgus if I say I suspect someone simply because they suspect me.

I've done nothing of the sort. I've asked valid questions and have supported all suspicions.

Anything further is reaching, fruitless, and what I find desperate and suspicious in trying to continue to say I've exercise omgus behavior/acts.

Try again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the meantime, have we really no other leads, or has the attempt to use me as a distraction been successful? (unless of course there's finally evidence on me, and not empty suspicions, invalid accusations of omgus, and suspicious fingers pointed at me by followers).

My week is freeing up more and more every day. With calculation, intellect, and unbias/objective regard (that one has been void today) - - I'll have more to offer than this sad excuse for a case on me.

*And to answer the other question - - absolutely. I did value MCD's opinion. Until he and others degraded the sanctity of what I thought was an understanding about hunting scum vs. manufacturin cases. I'm truly disappointed, I was excited when I thought we were all on the same page.

At this point, it's a desperate attempt to make me fit the bill, and try to look at things in whichever scope one can to TRY and see me as scummy.

Scum evidence sticks a lot better than thin manufactured accusations.

Manufacturing cases like this only lead to mislynches. Hunting and tangable discoveries are more valuable. *
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Post Post #907 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:03 am

Post by MadCrawdad »

AndyTony wrote:
AndyTony wrote: You just said
you want to consider me scum
for innocently questioning you
. That's
dangerously close to omgus
- -
"I suspect you for thinking I'm suspicious" - are you serious?


..............

I'm very unsettled at your [/u]omgus reaction to an innocent question[/u]
- I made no statements that you were a liar, I asked for someone's opinion.
MCD - -

In the very post in quesiton, I indeed answer the question you're asking me, so either you didn't see it (unlikely), you're playing a game (scummy), or you're wasting our time.
Since you're apparently not getting the gist of the question, let's try it this way... In response to an earlier question, you claim that you didn't really accuse Pitstop of OMGUS and weren't necessarily building a case. So being 'really unsettled' is kind of a strong reaction to something that was only
almost
OMGUS, and something you were just talking about over the hedges, isn't it?
AndyTony wrote: We all know what omgus behavior is - - I've displayed none of it.

I've been accused by hohum and Alduskkel of genuine acts of omgus - - I've displayed none of that either (with no votes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing I have done is omgus.

It can only be omgus if I say I suspect someone simply because they suspect me.
So are you now dropping the FoS/Voting requirement from your definition of OMGUS?
AndyTony wrote: In the meantime, have we really no other leads, or has the attempt to use me as a distraction been successful? (unless of course there's finally evidence on me, and not empty suspicions, invalid accusations of omgus, and suspicious fingers pointed at me by followers).

My week is freeing up more and more every day. With calculation, intellect, and unbias/objective regard (that one has been void today) - - I'll have more to offer than this sad excuse for a case on me.
I'm certainly willing to listen, and am interested in seeing who you like for scum, in addition to just those currently looking at you.
AndyTony wrote: *And to answer the other question - - absolutely. I did value MCD's opinion. Until he and others degraded the sanctity of what I thought was an understanding about hunting scum vs. manufacturin cases. I'm truly disappointed, I was excited when I thought we were all on the same page.
Back to Pablito's earlier post. Disappointment is kind of a strange emotion to drive an FoS, isn't it?
AndyTony wrote: At this point, it's a desperate attempt to make me fit the bill, and try to look at things in whichever scope one can to TRY and see me as scummy.

Scum evidence sticks a lot better than thin manufactured accusations.

Manufacturing cases like this only lead to mislynches. Hunting and tangable discoveries are more valuable. *
I disagree. If anything, your put-on display of exasperation is making you appear to be the desperate one.
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Post Post #908 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:26 am

Post by AndyTony »

MadCrawdad wrote:
Since you're apparently not getting the gist of the question, let's try it this way...
MCD

Nice tone...

And your question? Take another look at it.
MadCrawdad wrote:
You claim that you didn't really accuse Pitstop of OMGUS,
and that in your interaction you were
just discussing his behavior and not really building a case
, right? So when you said this to Pitstop, below,
what made you so
very unsettled
?
For something that you say you didn't really consider an OMGUS, and were just discussing, it apparently left you a little shaken. Why?
AndyTony wrote:I'm very unsettled
at your omgus
reaction
to an innocent question
- I made no statements that you were a liar, I asked for someone's opinion.
1. I did not build a case on Pitstop.
2. Having no vote on him. Having no case on her. I also NEVER stated she had exercised "OMGUS"
3. I had a disussion about her being dangerously close to omgus behavior.

I not only introduced it in that post as not omgus, but omgus behavior - - I also continue to call it such throughout the game (check post 179 for instance)
AndyTony wrote:I only mentioned it because it was worth conversation - - I typed such at the bottom of my post - - and though
Pitstop says the
omgus attitude
is actually a build up, I can only hope it gets pointed elsewhere next time around, because I'm usually apt to respecting someone's schedule!! lol
You asked why I was unsettled
I had already stated why I was unsettled
You suggest I had a case on Pitstop?
I had not such case on Pitstop.

My definition of omgus hasn't changed. I know what omgus is, and make it very clear that I have done no such thing. hohum and alduskkel had wanted to connect me to it.

I have also in this game, early, with pitstop, made mention of omgus behavior - - I haven't been accused of that either.

In fact, nothing I've done has been omgus. I've had a reason applied to all of my suspicions.

Can you explaine why in light of that, you're still obsessed with that topic?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ MCD
There seems to be a lot of tunnelling coming my way from you, with very little evidence. Can you explain that?

Tunnelling is "case manufacturing"'s best friend.
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Post Post #909 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:54 am

Post by AndyTony »

Suspects:

Alduskkel

- For his hypocritical behavior and subsequent lurking after being called out (could be him building other leads/availability!)
- His attitude, when regarded objectively from D1 and D2, seems to suggest he buddies to the strongest player of the day/case leader (so to speak). Almost like PR for whichever case seems most promising, no matter what the case is.

Anyone willing to flip flop on their convictions to better fit or apply suspicions on a player isn't scumhunting, they are changing themselves/trying to manufacture/better fit to a case and lynch. That isn't hunting scum, it's trying to get someone lynched and I find that scum behavior.

Always room to hear someone out though. His activity hasn't been what it was since steam was lost on the offense toward me and I'd like to see what he comes back with. Could be something really interesting, could be nothing. It only earns my suspicion at best with the benefit of the doubt till he gets back.

Hohum

- Hohum has constantly expressed aggression and a willingness to lynch with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude. He is all for policy lynching, and will allow personal grudges to be the foundation for suspicions that he will harbor with statements of "lynch! until someone builds a case for him (to which he will
opportunistically
join in on)

I would also like to see what happens with his activity since the earlier day railroading my way didn't pan out (for obvious reasons - - do we still like actual evidence? lol)

I still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but
regardless
, his attitude and gameplay will hurt this town* it should be something we're cognizant of, but not condemn him for.

MCD

-D1 he seemed to always make efforts to be present and logical, today, he seems to have flip flopped to
illogical
.

There's a lot of tunnelling my way. I think it will take more than just me to tell him though, for him to believe it.

I mean really. I have no problem ever explaining why I do anything. People who conduct OMGUS do what they do ONLY because of other people.

I have reasons connected to gameplay, attitude, and fair objective reasoning. C'est la vie if that makes someone scum or town, but I can promise that same fairness to everyone in the game.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That being said. If someone taps me on the shoulder in the street, I turn around and look at them.

When I look at them, I see them.

Yes, these are three people who geared at me with an empty case, but OMGUS (in my curret analogy) would be me turning around and tapping them on
their
shoulder because they tapped me lol

Which is not the case. I've been tapped, I've turned, and I've said what I saw within the rules of the game.

It's very unfair and cheap to lessen or belittle what I feel are valuable opinion and things I took time to observe on people in that way - - - They're my observations and I try to be fair
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THAT being said.

I'm still cognizant of those with very little activity and therein "case following". However it would be unfair for me to condemn on just that in any way. There's been a lot of replacing, and a lot of headache in activity on this game.

Which is why on the dynamic flipside of this scale, what I find more interesting are those desperate for a lynch the same way scum would be....the people who try to work things around and try hard to see someone as scum to get that easy lynch.

Like MCD tunnelling me.
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Post Post #910 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:55 am

Post by AndyTony »

@ MCD -

- Do expalin your tunnelling (please)

- And to refresh this in our midns so I better know where you're coming from:

Can you list once again any evidence or valid suspicions on me from you?
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Post Post #911 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:00 am

Post by Alduskkel »

How on Earth am I lurking? I posted
yesterday
. How am I being hypocritical?

Also, I answered your "buddying" accusation in 897:
Alduskkel wrote:If I see what I think is a good case I go with it.
Would you rather I
don't
go with what I think is a good case?

And I'm sure it's just a coincidence (and totally not OMGUS) that all of your suspects are people who are pressuring you.
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Post Post #912 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:15 am

Post by lobstermania »

MadCrawdad wrote:So what are your thoughts on how to handle D2? Seriously.

In your few short posts on D2 so far, you've twice called out other players for not posting, and continued to mention Khamisa (who is never here). Is is your plan just to wait for Khamisa to show up, or might it be a good idea to dig a little elsewhere in the meantime?

If you really want to talk to Khamisa, why are you withholding your vote until you hear from her? A little pressure may bring her around more frequently.
Khamisa was my top suspect after Cephrir on Day One.....so that's why I keep mentioning her. I'm interested to she how she plays on Day Two.
Also, in my opinion it would be stupid to vote for her while she's V/LA. How would that be productive or make her return from her vacation (or wherever she is) sooner?
Khamisa wrote:Whoever mentioned that we look for relationships with Cephrir: IMO, that seems pointless: he's town, so what would any relationships mean?
It was Cephrir who mentioned several times he though you seemed to be buddying up with him on Day One. If you were scum, it be smart to try to align yourself with a townie, especially if he's going to get lynched a flip town.
At this point I feel confident in typing:
Vote: Khamisa
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Post Post #913 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:16 am

Post by AndyTony »

Not OMGUS, no.

And not coincidence. Alduskkel, for the last time, I've just finished making this clear. I am not suspecting you becuase you suspect me. That is omgus.

I've made a full post outlining why I suspect you. To keep calling it omgus is cheap and only shows me a lack of explanation and defense on your part.

You see something you like and "go with it" ?

I'm saying that you "go with it" even if it means being a hypocrite. That's my point. You "went with things" in a hypocritical way. Why?

And can you elaborate on what you "liked" about anything MCD said? Or is that an empty statement?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**And no. There is no pressure on me. There would have to be valid points and evidence for their to be pressure on me.**

You know the slayer's gambit? Where someone sets themselves up to be an easy target and thus fishes out scum because they tunnel and flock to them?

I'm not doing that, but the same result is happening. The idea is that you can catch scum flocking and slipping on their way to what they see as an easy/convenient lynch. I feel your actions have seemed that way thus far.

I'm online right now for a bit and you just posted - - answer the questions above please - I'll be around as well
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Post Post #914 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:28 am

Post by Alduskkel »

I'll repeat:
Alduskkel wrote:Would you rather I
don't
go with what I think is a good case?
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Post Post #915 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:30 am

Post by AndyTony »

That's a very blunt and ignorant approach to answering me. You're better than that.

That's a silly question. Of course you should support good cases.

I'm saying that in order for you to support MCD's case? You had to be a hypocrite, switch your convictions, and buddy to the leader.

I'm asking you why you had to do that? Is a lynch that much more important than finding scum?
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Post Post #916 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:33 am

Post by Alduskkel »

AndyTony wrote:I'm saying that in order for you to support MCD's case? You had to be a hypocrite, switch your convictions, and buddy to the leader.
I've already said that I just changed my mind.
AndyTony wrote:I'm asking you why you had to do that? Is a lynch that much more important than finding scum?
Because I agreed with MCD, and no to the second.
AndyTony wrote:And can you elaborate on what you "liked" about anything MCD said?
I agreed with it. How much more specific do you want me to be?
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Post Post #917 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:34 am

Post by Alduskkel »

And you still haven't answered why you accused me of lurking.
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Post Post #918 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:38 am

Post by AndyTony »

What did you agree with?
Still?
Why?
Why did you have to "change your mind" on topics in ORDER to believe them? (that's hypocritical, that's my point)

These should be easy to answer, Al....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And better said (than lurking) is a definate lack of steam.

It's like you have less to say when MCD isn't saying it for you.
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Post Post #919 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:40 am

Post by Alduskkel »

AndyTony wrote:What did you agree with?
Still?
Why?
Why did you have to "change your mind" on topics in ORDER to believe them? (that's hypocritical, that's my point)
Everything, yes, because I thought MCD was making good points, and I don't understand the last one. Of course I had to change my mind if I originally had a different opinion.
AndyTony wrote:It's like you have less to say when MCD isn't saying it for you.
:?: How so? :?:
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Post Post #920 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:43 am

Post by AndyTony »

Al, this shouldn't be hard, help clear this up:

List what you agreed with
Why did you agree with it?
Do you understand why this is hypocrisy and not simply "mind changing"? You conveniently changed your mind on things you supported in posts yourself the moment MCD made mention

Be specific.
-----------------------------------------------

How so?

Well. If you agree with "everything" (that you seem incapable of listing).

Where is your investigation? Have you no questions for me? lol

Do you have ANYTHING to ask? Anyone ELSE to ask? Anything unanswered, anything influencing your vote, anything I've said etc.

I mean it like I said it.

You have less to say when it's not being said for you.

Please answer the questions
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Post Post #921 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:44 am

Post by AndyTony »

If you're going to sit there and only post when you have something to "change your mind on" (hypocrite) or "agree with" (buddy buddy/follower)

then yeah, I'll think you're scum.
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Post Post #922 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:48 am

Post by Alduskkel »

AndyTony wrote:List what you agreed with
This would take too long, and can easily be summarized if I just say that I agree with what MCD's been saying about you.
AndyTony wrote:Why did you agree with it?
Um... because I did? I don't know what kind of answer you want.
AndyTony wrote:Do you understand why this is hypocrisy and not simply "mind changing"? You conveniently changed your mind on things you supported in posts yourself the moment MCD made mention
Often I won't notice things until someone else points them out. That's what happened here.
AndyTony wrote:Where is your investigation? Have you no questions for me? lol

Do you have ANYTHING to ask? Anyone ELSE to ask? Anything unanswered, anything influencing your vote, anything I've said etc.
Yes, I want to know why you accused me of lurking.
AndyTony wrote:You have less to say when it's not being said for you.
...not really.
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Post Post #923 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:51 am

Post by AndyTony »

That's the answer you your lurk question - I feel there's less steam or anything for you to say when it's not being done for you (better said) which yes - - I did answer.
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Take too long?

Is that your final response?
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You're not against the clock, are you? deadline is the 27th lol
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Post Post #924 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:57 am

Post by Alduskkel »

AndyTony wrote:Is that your final response?
Yes, if you don't have anything left to ask.
CLICK HERE FOR THE ALDUSKKEL APPRECIATION PAGE
"i've only known aldus for four and a half months but if anything happened to him i would kill everyone in this room and then myself" -Datisi, March 28 2020
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