Mini 810: Infection! Mini - Game over!

[charter]

...Why do you think veerus could be original scum?
Why could I be original scum?

[Xylthixlm]

Day 2 Vote Count

The Replacement -

2

(charter, Kise)
veerus -

1

(Rally Vincent)
charter -

1

(Battle Mage)
Kelly Chen -

1

(populartajo)

Not voting: veerus, Kid Know Nothing, Shotty to the Body, The Replacement, Kelly Chen

With 10 alive it will take 6 to lynch.

[Kise]

Maybe because you weren't on the FA wagon[?]

I would have said veerus & FA were partners based on FA's support of the NL, but the way malt' tries to derail the FA wagon and get veerus lynched makes me reconsider.

[charter]

I wasn't asking you, I was asking Kelly Chen, though it's my fault for not making that more obvious.

veerus is completely and totally 100% not an original scum. People need to get this through their heads. If malthusis ran with veerus's NL plan, then it's because he saw a good opportunity present itself and he jumped on that, not supporting a buddy's idea.

[Kise]

You asked her a question, sure. But being that it was posted publicly, I went and did some iso reading on you myself, rather than wait around for KC to voice her opinion. I'd like to compare with whatever she has to say as well. Though I did not tell you beforehand that I believed you could be original scum, the thought is still there. Asking Kelly is like blindly asking me, since her & I share a suspicion. So why not have me answer my version as well?

After FA's flip, I went back and looked at how you antagonized me and your stance on FA. As KC mentioned her suspicion of you, the thought has crossed my mind, and honestly what applies to Mokina D1 (her distance from malt' & FA) also applies to you. I didn't realize this until you asked KC why you could be original scum.

Basically.....

Unvote: The Replacement

It's a 2-way street right.

[charter]

You asked her a question, sure. But being that it was posted publicly, I went and did some iso reading on you myself, rather than wait around for KC to voice her opinion. I'd like to compare with whatever she has to say as well. Though I did not tell you beforehand that I believed you could be original scum, the thought is still there. Asking Kelly is like blindly asking me, since her & I share a suspicion. So why not have me answer my version as well?

I will educate you on mafia for the future. If someone asks someone a question, you DO NOT answer it before they give their answer. You influence their answer. If you want to voice your opinion or compare answers, you wait until the person the question is originally addressed to answers it.

Asking Kelly a question and asking you a question are nothing alike. I'm not looking for your answer, I'm looking for hers. You didn't make the comment that I could be original scum, whereas she did. I wanted to know why she thinks I could be original scum. I knew perfectly well that I am a highly likely original scum candidate because I was not on the FA lynch and I repeatedly said I didn't think FA was scum. Now, you've answered the question for her, so I don't get to see what her answer was when she made that post. She could have come up with some crazy reason, or she could have had the likely one, but now we don't know.

Now, my question to her wasn't exactly an important one, but I was interested in seeing if she said something besides I wasn't on the FA lynch.

Mokina never mentioned FA or malthusis, whereas I did. These aren't the same situation at all.

[Shotty to the Body]

Making a post tomorrow.

[Kise]

Mokina never mentioned FA or malthusis, whereas I did. These aren't the same situation at all.

Yet & still, mere mentions =/= interactions. However, in your case, those mere mentions do equal distancing when you consider that you never had any opposition or suspicion of either malt' or FA. You & Mokina were both distanced from the 2 infected players, so all is fair if you ask me.

[Kise]

Add that to the fact YOU were the one who suggested BM can be guard-killed if he's fakeclaiming... In the event the two of you are scum, it currently would look like you're rallying to lynch The Replacement and save BM. BM is a likely vaccine target, whereas you would have the opportunity to try and infect someone. (And before anyone says it, I know it's probable to target Test Subject) Understand where I'm coming from.

[Kelly Chen]

charter are you specifically asking why you or veerus could be

original

scum?

In that case it's an easy question, I think you and especially veerus would have been poor recruitment choices. You because your D1 suspicions appear to have sucked.

There are good points against veerus being scum at all, and I don't have anything conclusive on you either.


Atm I want to get this Mokina read out of the way and get to bed.

[Kelly Chen]

Upon going over Shotty's posts today, I got a bad feeling that he might be an infected (his play yesterday leads me to believe he was infected last night). He's posted a few times today, but largely said nothing of much importance.

Also, this post seems like he panicked that malthusis's infection didn't go through

Guard got infected? Guard didn't want to shoot someone when they weren't sure of alignment? How does the phrasing of the mod's post imply no security guard? It's pretty clear that Malthisus died of infection according to the death post, I'm pretty sure somewhere in D1 we talked about the guard not randomly shooting people if he wasn't sure.

This post is probably a little bit of a stretch, but his play today has been just trying to scrape by.

At the beginning of your post you say you think it likely he was infected last night based upon his day one play. Then you go on to say that today that it looks like he was concerned with whether or not Malthusis' infetion was successful, which means he had to have begun the game as an infected for that to be the case. It can't be both.

Yeah, I just checked the infected role PM and apparently they can talk all the time, so if malthusis's infection went through, he'd know if he was infected. I thought it worked like most cults where they can't talk with the new recruit until the next night, so my theory isn't true (though Shotty is still not posting at all today).

BS response, why didn't Replacement or Shotty remark on this?

In that post charter replies to both Replacement and Shotty discussing the same logical problem, but never even acknowledges the problem. He just says the above, and asks Shotty how he was role-fishing. How is that possible?

unvote, vote: charter

[Kelly Chen]

Ok.

Two of the four games I picked are not over yet. Mokina is revealed town though, and her posts... Same as here. Non-committal, obsessed with inactive players without thinking they're scummy, smug discussion of general strategy.

In the two that are over, she was scum in one. But her posts were more pleasant to read in both.

Not very conclusive.

It doesn't look like any of you played with her. So I still don't understand why nobody thought she was scummy D1.

[Rally Vincent]

I'm still in for a veerus lynch today (apparently, I am all alone in this). Besides yesterday, he originally had The Replacement as

infected

scum with Mokina "pretty townish" (Post #498). Now, he's declaring The Replacement/Mokina as

original

scum. No explanation why Mokina suddenly switched from town to original scum - just hiding behind charter.

I thought about charter being infected, but then veerus-scum wouldn't buddy up like this, so I am inclined to think that scum is preparing charter as a suspect for Day 3 with him leading a (mis)lynch on The Replacement. I liked what I heard from The Replacement regarding BM before his claim. Now he's dissapeared, so before judging him, I'll waiting for his replacement to say something.

[Rally Vincent]

EBWOP: *disappeared

[charter]

charter are you specifically asking why you or veerus could be

original

scum?

In that case it's an easy question, I think you and especially veerus would have been poor recruitment choices. You because your D1 suspicions appear to have sucked.

There are good points against veerus being scum at all, and I don't have anything conclusive on you either.


Atm I want to get this Mokina read out of the way and get to bed.

Ok, just because we would have been poor recruitment choices, how does that have anything to do with us being original scum?

In that post charter replies to both Replacement and Shotty discussing the same logical problem, but never even acknowledges the problem. He just says the above, and asks Shotty how he was role-fishing. How is that possible?

Oh wow. I was confused. Yeah, what I was saying makes no sense, I don't know how I bungled that twice.

[veerus]

RV, are you saying that I'm supposed to keep my read despite the fact that the role is now played by a different player in a different day (with possibly a different allignment)? That's ridiculous. That's even not considering the fact that charter's points make a lot of sense.

Give up your tunnel vision already and try to look for other scum. Who do you think is scum besides me?

[Kelly Chen]

I reskimmed a few people and I am going to completely flip-flop.

unvote, vote: Shotty

Much better bet I think.

Here's the breakdown I came up with:
Maybe original: charter, mokina/rplcmt, shotty, veerus, kise?
Maybe recruited: charter, pop, rally, shotty
Believe to be neither atm: me, bm, kid

[charter]

Kelly, can you explain how you came to any of those conclusions? I don't agree with just about all of them.

[Shotty to the Body]

Mind posting some reasons for that Chen? You completely buy BM's guard claim? Why do you think Kid is completely cleared?

[Kise]

I co-sign the two above me.. please explain both the vote and why you think those certain people could be infected or not.

[Kelly Chen]

You don't agree? Really? I'll say a word or two but then please tell me which ones you don't or didn't agree with.

@Shotty:
I buy the guard claim. At least to the point that I wouldn't worry about it today. I'll take another look if he "forgets" to kill me tonight.

But if BM is scum, didn't he claim kind of early considering the likelihood of a counterclaim? It's not a huge, or at least immediate, advantage for scum to draw out the guard, if we have a doc.

Yes, in my mind, Kid is pretty close to cleared. I think I may have discussed him a bit before. I felt the way he went at it with poptajo regarding FA and PP was superficially rather scummy, but, essentially defending FA like that wouldn't be something scum would want to do. It was awkward and pointless as far as I can see.

I definitely don't see someone recruiting him. Is that controversial?

charter and Shotty I have as possible to be either type. I could see either as good enough bets to be recruited (even if I wouldn't), and I see little reason why they couldn't be original scum.

As far as why Shotty and not charter... charter's not really that scummy. Sometimes I think there's something unnatural about his posts, but I mainly can't read him.

I'm content (more than I would've thought) with charter's response to my vote... It seems to me that if charterscum really had the balls to intentionally tapdance around a charge made by two people, then he probably would be prepared to stick to his story when I brought it up later, however he might be able to do that... I have trouble seeing that scenario...

Shotty deserves his own post... that's going to have to wait a day I think. I'm not sure how good the post will be; atm I just know I get a bad vibe from his posts that's more tangible than with charter's.

Mokina: Could be original scum. I don't think anybody disputes that much. Recruited scum is unlikely because her role was vacant when night fell. Don't think that's controversial.

Veerus: I'm leaving the door open. Original Veerus scum might not be the most sensible thing. But this breakdown was just about what's possible.

Kise: I almost have Kise as cleared, but there's a small possibility that fallen wanted to bus Paper. It doesn't seem like a good plan given this game's mechanic though. I don't think it's likely that Kise was recruited, because even if scum thought that Kise looked town due to being attacked by fallen, Kise was still picking up some suspicion due to his own posts.

poptajo: Not original scum, as he points out, because his play would be pretty insane I think, once I consider the mechanic. But in order to not be a candidate as recruited scum, we have to feel that the scum would believe that the doctor would regard pop as the top priority to protect. I'm not at all sure that is true, even if scum and doctor are all paying attention. I don't think it's obvious that that is the goal of the doctor, considering you can only protect someone once.

Rally: Not original scum in my opinion. A piece of evidence is post 320 where his rundown of players has fallen and malthusis, and only them, as possible scum. His next most harsh words are pretty mild, it seems to me. He could be a recruited scum just because I think he looks pretty good, pretty likely to not get lynched. But I haven't felt he's been scummy at all really.

BM: Based on his posts, I dunno. At the end of yesterday I was starting to lean more scum due to the rumored lurking tell. But then he started posting again. Since he claimed guard I'm happy to not think about him.

[charter]

My list would be
Maybe original: mokina/replacement
Maybe recruited: rally, shotty, BM, Kid, Kelly
Believe to be neither: charter, tajo, veerus, kise

I've gone on and on about why I think veerus is not original scum, if you think he could be, I'd like to hear something from you more than "I'm leaving the door open" because that translates to me as "I'll lynch him in a heartbeat if the opportunity presents itself" and I'd like for you to respond to my posts where I explain why I don't think veerus is original scum.

tajo I believe to be town because he clearly isn't original scum and I don't think scum would have tried to infect him last night.

Obviously I don't think "and I see little reason why they[charter/Shotty] couldn't be original scum" is a reason to think someone is scum since that applies to about everyone.

BM is scummy as hell and lurks like no one's business (which I've seen him do multiple times as scum, never as town) and in this game lurking is extremely scummy. Also, it's possible he was a guard and was recruited last night, thus guard would be a safe thing to claim.

I don't see why you've cleared KKN either.

Basically, your list for original scum seems really really large since we know two of the scum yesterday. Tajo is also superobv town in my mind and BM and kid don't look town to me either.

[Kise]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone? Also, your post doesn't quite explain why Shotty in particular is scum. I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

[charter]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone? Also, your post doesn't quite explain why Shotty in particular is scum. I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

These are good points too.

[Kelly Chen]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone?

How did you get that out of what you tl;dred?

Can you do better? charter has just one more person than me as neither, with most of his suspects as recruits. I don't understand what that can be based on. What makes Shotty, BM, or Kid impossible as original scum? (Surely what makes Kid unlikely as original scum also makes him unlikely as recruited scum...?)

Also, your post doesn't quite explain why Shotty in particular is scum.

It didn't try to and I wrote as much. I will point out where Shotty has struck me as scummy.

I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

Not sure what you mean. I prefer to place Shotty as original scum, because if anything he was scummier earlier than later. I'm not after anybody for being recruited scum. That's not a deliberate strategy (it sounds like a poor strategy), it's just a lack of D2 read on people.