The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Percy]

I didnt fuel the Light kun lynch with my doll plan. I was clear enough that the plan for the day was to give the doll to the lynch of the day, didnt matter which player.

Yes, but now it seems like L-K's lynch is a foregone conclusion. If we decide not to lynch him, do we get him to pass it to someone else? Is that even a good idea?

I'm concerned that the doll can't be passed, and that L-K will be lynched for no other reason than we're hoping to kill the doll.

Also, I would appreciate it if those voting L-K would summarise what they found scummy about him or his predecessor.

L-K not claiming is tricky. @L-K: can you at least let us know if your role is confirmable in some way? Also, please clarify your "suggestion" in 3494, and why you think dramonic has a good reason to be voting you.

I didn't. I voted because I was still hoping to lynch that day (foolish me).

Hmmm...
See, you're artfully dodging the question here. You stated that Devestation would be vigged upon deadline

without

your contribution, but you wanted to contribute to

make it happen

. One of these things is untrue.
My issues are the lack of a case and your abandonment of your other convictions (such as preferring Steph) for a vote that you really didn't believe in.

[Light-kun]

1. Populartajo is being voted by me for mostly omgus reasons.
2. Claiming is not the best play for me.
3. Dramonic, that' cute, but you stil haven't explain how my plan is flawed.
4. Percy, God bless you and your willingness to actually read the game.
5. In case I didn't make this perfectly clear, I'm not reading he entirety of the game. I am simpling entering, using the list of confirmed and cleareds and going from there. However, since the doll enters now, I would think it is obvious that whoever has the doll is potentially a serial killer now. Therefore, all previous reads are pretty much invalid.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sajin re-replaces in for Setael. He has no knowledge from his previous life.

[Pyromaniac]

My contribution will make it happen faster.

[Sajin]

/confirm replacement. Give me a day for a catch up post.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.

This.


Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.

Look I think your question is extremely stupid. I've already explained that I re-voted right after my unvote and that's all I'm going to say.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I like the Percy catchup post except for two things that I think need clarification:

1) I didnt fuel the Light kun lynch with my doll plan. I was clear enough that the plan for the day was to give the doll to the lynch of the day, didnt matter which player. Its a fact that Rocka active lurked and I just dont find any protown motivation in Kun refusal to claim (when this could have been the only way to at least try to clear him) and in his vote, so what fueled Light lynch was this and not my plan.

2) Do you think Light kun refusal to claim is scummy? What about his plan and his vote for me?

Ya I'm basically supporting this. Rock gave me very bad vibes with his disruptive, anti-town posts and I'm not finding that LK has changed this feeling.

Also, on a separate note, my vote for Nyx was only a pressure vote to get him to come back and go through with the vigging before the deadline. He had shown some early indications of not wanting to do this that I attempted to clarify and then when he started to lurk I just did what the town has to do to get lurkers to stop.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamontand Zwet, stop being jerks, and answer the questions.

This.


Quote Pyramide, until Lamont and Zwet have answered.

Look I think your question is extremely stupid. I've already explained that I re-voted right after my unvote and that's all I'm going to say.

Btw, I support Percy's read on you (severe town PR het) although I would like his opinion on:

1) The chances of scum making the excellent NK analysis that you did at the beginning of this day

2) Your extreme PM rolefishing expedition

[Lamont_Cranston]

1. Populartajo is being voted by me for mostly omgus reasons.
2. Claiming is not the best play for me.
3. Dramonic, that' cute, but you stil haven't explain how my plan is flawed.
4. Percy, God bless you and your willingness to actually read the game.
5. In case I didn't make this perfectly clear, I'm not reading he entirety of the game. I am simpling entering, using the list of confirmed and cleareds and going from there. However, since the doll enters now, I would think it is obvious that whoever has the doll is potentially a serial killer now.

Therefore,

all

previous reads are pretty much invalid

.

There are a few humm-dinger posts like this that really get me wondering. It seems like a point that is just purposely designed to screw with the town. Rocks posts were there same way.

Btw, we really need Amished to come back. He could help us understand this doll better and how Trilby escaped from its power. This is what leads me to believe its SK properties are temporary because as I recall Trilby just wakes up in that outdoor supply room free from the doll's effects.

[Percy]

I find it interesting that after essentially saying "The L-K case has no legs, and there is scum all over it, someone please give me a case to look at" we've had posts from dramonic (who started the wagon), L_C and zwet (early riders, though zwet jumped off a bit for some pyro distancing), populartajo (who joined later) and Pyromaniac (who wanted to hammer before I could finish my read), and only one has tried to explain the case.

Rock gave me very bad vibes with his disruptive, anti-town posts and I'm not finding that LK has changed this feeling.

So the case is "bad vibes from the guy L_K is replacing".

Everyone else on the wagon who didn't clarify the case needs to (1) say why they didn't think it was worth mentioning in the first place and (2) tell me something more compelling than this weak crap.

ISO read of Rockatansky:
His response to dramonic's case was bad, but I think dramonic's attack in the first place was pretty weak.
His vig vote on Dev was without any reason I could see. I don't like this at all.
Doesn't like L_C, which (though understandable given the scumtells he's racked up so far) strikes me as a little odd, possibly forced.

He's certainly a player to watch, and the refusal to RC

must

yield results

soon

. I'd also like for him to explain this "plan" of his, because it's not clear to me what he is proposing.

There are far stronger lynch candidates today. They are zwet, dramonic, and Pyro.

@L_C: Of those who have been confirmed or semi-confirmed as town, who do you think are still confirmed in spite of the doll complication?

I would like his [my] opinion on:

1) The chances of scum making the excellent NK analysis that you [Zazier] did at the beginning of this day

2) Your [ZazieR's] extreme PM rolefishing expedition

(Please address questions to me, I almost missed this)
1) I would say that scum-worried-about-SK and town-worried-about-anyscum could both produce this analysis. Not a scumtell.
2) This is what you said on the matter:

I'm sorry but Zaze has earned the benefit of the doubt with her hard work at scum hunting; I'm just very sick and tired of her obsession with role PM's & power roles. I think it is likely she is scum engaging in rolefishing while pretending to believe there are no PR's AND advocating the lynch of a town PR. But again, she has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like how much you're wringing your hands here.

But to answer your question, I think scum faced with a confirmed self-protecting doc and an unNKable powerrole cleared by a cop may be tempted to do something about it. Her arguments don't make much sense, either - saying Amished may be scum/vanilla begs the "what happened to hohum N1" question, for example, and claiming

three incredibly powerful PRs

with

confirmable actions

would be an incredibly gutsy and probably fatal scum move. Desperate scum or tilted town are the ways I can read ZazieR, but I'll have to see more of her "live" (so to speak) before I can make up my mind.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Point #1: Begins the game off on the wrong foot regarding myself. I realize this does not qualify as a main argument or anything but it

IS

part of the overall case and needs to be noted:

Let me get this straight:

Lamont was the leading wagon for a while yesterday

He (by his own admission) made up a story about how the shotgun shell was growing increasingly hot and potentially even threatened to kill him

The Cranston Wagon folded up like a cheap suit and the day ended in a no lynch

Lamont was miraculously saved by healer who visited him in the middle of the night. He then MENTIONED THE FACT THAT HE WAS HEALED IN THREAD and reminded the healer to not come out

yes, keep going...

Spoiler Alert:

You're probably scum

Point #2: He makes several posts which are an anti-town attempt to (1)derail the vig vote and (2)minimize the potential importance of items and item-town interaction. I point out how it is an anti-town sentiment:

How did it survive 'till today intact? It IS an obvious vig item right, a SHOTGUN shell...??

I don't think it's an obvious anything. There's been entirely too much WIFOM speculation about what items might do and whether someone who chooses to use an item is/isn't scum.

The mod clearly stated that day-drop items have to be used that day.

The shotgun shell was a day-drop item that was not used the day it was found.

So of course, what we end up doing is devoting 85% of the discussion to who should be vigged.

Good job, carry on.

Point #3: This is a simultaneous attempt to both sound town-like in defending a town power role but also cast suspicion against both roles:

As problematic as Naomi's claim may be, why is she being wagoned when she's claimed power villa and hasn't been counter-claimed or peeked nor recanted her claim?

I'm also glad to see some people finally questioning Amished's claim. As loathe as I am to speculate on roles, a self-protecting doc seems so overpowered as to be implausible. I think Amished's claim is less believable than Naomi's. However, neither of them should be wagoned yet.

Of course I see this ending like weird claims usually do, with one or both of them living to LYLO and then saying "lulz, I was just kidding" and wondering why they have to be lynched.

/soapbox

As for today,

vote lamont

A final note. In my research I came across a post that might of cleared Rock. He mentions the town role PM. It took me an hour but I finally tracked down that it was Zazier that discovered this and made it very plain for everyone to see. So the point here is that he was only following along and not leading the way and so it doesn't at all clear him.

On a separate note, I no longer suspect Zazier at all and I think she is town. I wish she would stop role PM fishing though.

Unvote

Maybe Dev isnt the best lynch today.

Wait a minute... You're buying a vanillager claim??

You see no reason to believe Deves his claim from any post on this page?

I can claim Bozo the Vanillager Clown and make the same post...

There are two things that aren't right in that post.
If he's an Innocent, it should say an Innocent and not "you're innocent" and the 'brain' is called differently. All the other things fit with my flavor.
So the only thing is that he didn't claim an Innocent, but said "you're innocent". As it's paraphrased, it's not a point against him.

Dev came about as close to quoting the Town role pm as he could without getting modkilled. Unless scum were given copies of it (and why the mod would do that rather than just quote the town role pm in the rules is beyond me) then he is town.

Ok there isn't much to look at from Rock which is another point against him; his lurking.

Overall his entire profile is of someone who doesn't care about the town or town goals. Not only that but

actively attempts to subvert the town in its efforts to accomplish those goals

. This is why I suspect him.

Now for the case on his replacement.

[Lamont_Cranston]

He's certainly a player to watch, and the refusal to RC

must

yield results

soon

. I'd also like for him to explain this "plan" of his, because it's not clear to me what he is proposing.

Right. He needs to explain it more because there seems to be alot of confusion regarding it.

There are far stronger lynch candidates today. They are zwet, dramonic, and Pyro.

I can see a Zwet. I cannot see the others; I think they have both been town assets.

@L_C: Of those who have been confirmed or semi-confirmed as town, who do you think are still confirmed in spite of the doll complication?

1) I would of preferred a post that helps the town deal with the issue rather than a carte blanche "all reads are off".
2) I believe the doll SK properties are temporary and I think this can be used to help the doll holder claim and help the town. I believe the doll needs to be used in the final scene to kill the dispossed boy before the manor is burnt down.

But to answer your question, I think scum faced with a confirmed self-protecting doc and an unNKable powerrole cleared by a cop may be tempted to do something about it. Her arguments don't make much sense, either - saying Amished may be scum/vanilla begs the "what happened to hohum N1" question, for example, and claiming

three incredibly powerful PRs

with

confirmable actions

would be an incredibly gutsy and probably fatal scum move. Desperate scum or tilted town are the ways I can read ZazieR, but I'll have to see more of her "live" (so to speak) before I can make up my mind.

I no longer suspect her and consider her conf-town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

#1: I don't like how he advocates destroying important items needed for a town win:

Hm... how would you suggest eliminating the doll?

FYI, I agree about saving the matches. From the flavor people have suggested, we can't use the matches in order to win, but as to the doll, how should it be destroyed.

@zazier:

Oh, in that case... hm...

Who thinks that destroying all three things is a good thing? a bad thing? Why?

#2: Making a claim that is not a claim..

I know I am the wrong person, and were it an earlier day, I would be relatively okay with being given the doll

and flipping innocent

.

However, that would be stupid now since we already lost 7 and only one scum flipped among them.

I know I am the wrong person, and were it an earlier day, I would be relatively okay with being given the doll and flipping innocent.

However, that would be stupid now since we already lost 7 and only one scum flipped among them.

That is not a claim

No, it's not.

If it is not a claim what is it exactly?

I am witholding my analysis on all posts after the ones I quoted until he explains his plan in detail. Too many people are confused over it.

Right now I can see a profile of caught-scum trying desperately to divert focus from himself to anything else. I have other reads but I don't want to go into those atm.

[Lamont_Cranston]

2) I believe the doll SK properties are temporary and I think this can be used to help the doll holder claim and help the town. I believe the doll needs to be used in the final scene to kill the dispossed boy before the manor is burnt down.

Errrm, on second thought

claiming

might not be the best idea...

I'm not actually sure what is in fact...

[Pyromaniac]

Damn I wish I knew L_C's alignment. The fact he hasn't been NKed makes me suspicious. And with his alignment we get a lot of info.

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm seeing a simple bussing attempt between pyro and lamont.

[Light-kun]

My plan is confusing? Huh...who knew.

Look: I am the favorite for today's lynch. I cannot disprove this fact. However, what if we had the cop investigate me, so that the night kill is controlled to kill an innocent person with very little draw back. The cop may lose the investigation still, but the mafia will also somewhat waste a kill. If they decide not to waste the kill on me, I am proven innocent, and that is one step closer to finding scum AND we have whoever else they kill for information. My death supplies less as a lynch than it does control as the night kill. Even if the cop's investigation is wasted, I theorize this control (or attempted if th mafia are currently being controlled by the doll) would be extremely advantageous to us.

I would be the favored lynch today. However, what if we were to lynch someone else. Let's say pyro (for the sake of argument.)
d4: Pyro is lynched and flips ???
N4A: Cop investigates me, gets town. Mafia kills me (or tries to) and the kill is controled.
N4B: Cop investigates me, gets town. mafia kills me, but fails due to doll? We learn town, kill couldn't be controled anyway.
N4C: Cop investigates me, gets town. Mafia kills someone else (not cop). We learn town, kill is diverted so information is gained.
N4D: Cop investigates me, gets mafia. Mafia obviously kills someone else. We learn mafia member, and lynch me for the result.

I know D is impossible. C is unlikely, and B would happen anyway if my theory prior to this is correct. A is the most likely if the doll holder doesn't have to make the mafia kill, though we may then lose two people.

The only flaw is, of course, if the cop dies. That isn't impossible I guess, but my I assumed from the attempts at directing the investigation, the cop won't die tonight.

[Pyromaniac]

That never works. You could be godfather. In both A and D we end up behind. We are in potential lylo tomorrow.

[Setael]

Thanks for replacing, sajin.

Almost

makes up for WoT.

Good luck, all.

[Stephoscope]

Light-kun, please summarize in a sentence or two why someone like Pyro should be lynched and not you. You can go on and on about your investigation plans, but why do you feel you are the right candidate to investigate? Also, do you have a roleclaim? Sorry if I've missed something...

[Pyromaniac]

He has refused to claim. =(

[Stephoscope]

Well, I'm on the record as wanting a dramonic list, and I also appreciate and mostly agree with Percy's list, but I hope Light-kun has some good answers to those questions. And: WHY do you refuse to roleclaim?

[Stephoscope]

list = lynch

[dramonic]

I'm still waiting for an actual case on me.

Also, I'll go find the ISO post where I state my reason to want to lynch Rock/L-K

[dramonic]

Let's do a post analysis of Rock

1. Attacks Lamont with his reasons for voting being ridiculous.

2. Speculation about how the shotgun shell is apparently not a vig item. Of course it's to be used as a supository

3. Accuses Xtoxm of flooding the thread with item speculation without actually bringing an intelligent explanation to the shell (mind you, it's a pretty obvious item)

4. Plays victim

5. vigvote dev without ANY explanation

6.

Also, someone just have me prodded once all this vig nonsense is over with.

Nice way of not participating. He's not even V/LA, he's just running away. Useful way to avoid suspicion, when you don't say anything.

7. Use of fail logic to push more of his illusions on the town about lynching Lamont

8. Fails to understand basic logic when faced with it

9. Twists people's intentions to fit his needs.

10. Lurks hard.

11. L-K refusing to claim

12. L-K not bringing any town play after Rock's play

Yeah, he's scummy alright.

12 reasons to lynch Rock/L-K