Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[Haylen]

How on earth can saying nobody has told me any different be craplogic. Didn't I argue the same point about Randomlunatic in Cr3t1n's? Why did neither you nor Incog tell me then that tunnelling isn't a scumtell? For that you have just earned yourself a scumpoint.

I didn't really use appealling to authority to explain appealling to authority. This makes no sense what-so-ever, the point i'm trying to make is I'm going to write out my arguments they way i've been taught, and if that means referencing a more experienced player, i'm sure as hell going to do it.

That has everything to do with the game, he is arguing that I want everyone to treat me as a newbie when that clearly isn't true.

a) It was a metaphor!
b) I'm not playing poorly, I'm making the scum here underestimate me...which you have just completely blown, thanks.
c) Haha! You don't think I'm really paranoid? Wow. I'm one of the most paranoid players you're ever going to play here. I'm paranoid cause any two of you could be scum out to get me, it just so happens I think those scum are yourself and Kmd. Also...I have to powerrole to claim. There is no powerroles in this game. Do you expect me to be so stupid as to claim doc or something as town? Well, to be fair, I did set myself up for that in cr3t1n's...remember? When someone, I cant remember who it was, said I wouldn't be so sophisticated enough to breadcrumb a powerrole? Yeah, I lied when I said I hadn't done that.

I have no secrets here, I'm telling you what I see, think and believe.

I'm really sure that quickhammering me would not benefit the town in any way, shape or form, other than it would make my points against you and Kmd more valid on Day Two.

[Haylen]

EBWOP

Why did neither you nor Incog tell me then that tunnelling isn't a scumtell? For that you have just earned yourself a scumpoint.

You earnt the scumpoint here because since either you, nor Incog told me it wasn't a scumtell in cr3t1n's, but are now. Therefore, you are lying.

[camn]

a) I was scum in Cr3t1ns.... why would I want to help you?

b) I'm not debating whether tunneling is a tell.

c) I contend that:

i. selective scumhunting =/= picking one player to focus on
ii. JUST cause no ones ever told you any different =/=

anything

being true.

d) point ii. above is the especially craplogical part.

e) you TOTALLY appealed to the authority of your history teacher to 'prove' the validity of using an appeal to authority! This cannot stand from a logical perspective. I am not saying using a logical fallacy is scummy on its own..., but PERSISTING in using it once you know it is flawed IS.

[Haylen]

a) I was scum in Cr3t1ns.... why would I want to help you?

Because it's lying about what is an actually isn't a scumtell, which isn't right. So why should I believe you here?

b) I'm not debating whether tunneling is a tell.

Tar says it is, so I agree.

c) I contend that:

i. selective scumhunting =/= picking one player to focus on
ii. JUST cause no ones ever told you any different =/= anything being true.

Well, generally, you tend to believe something is right until you're told otherwise. That's how people improve. That's the logic in what I'm saying. There is nothing illogical to it.

I TOTALLY didn't appeal to the authority of anyone. I'm just telling it how it is.

Question: If my logic is always craplogic, why was I correct about yourself and CTD's roles in cr3t1ns? Does it in fact make it craplogic if I'm right?

My logic here should be taken more note of, I've proven even if everyone else see's it as crap, it tends to be correct.

[Haylen]

Also, seem's about time I wrote a rant on why I'm actually town since I'm at L-1.

(I have 35 points this time )

[Haylen]

If somebody hammers me, who will you lynch tomorrow?

[camn]

It depends on their reasoning, of course.

[Haylen]

It depends on their reasoning, of course.

Are you admitting knowing i'm town then?

[camn]

It depends on their reasoning, of course.

Are you admitting knowing i'm town then?

Don't be silly.
If you ask a hypothetical question, you get a hypothetical answer.

[Incognito]

I'm really really behind. I've been insanely busy the past two days, and I ended up spraining my ankle yesterday. I hope to have a catch-up post by tomorrow, but I will again reiterate that I'm almost certain that Haylen is town and that this wagon sucks. I'm not surprised that my two scum choices in camn and Kmd are on it.

And actually, the way I see things, if I'm correct about the two town reads I have in SpyreX and Haylen, from my point of view we could lynch any of {Korts, camn, and Kmd} Today and if that doesn't win us the game, we could lynch either one of the other two Tomorrow. Again, I plan to catch up tomorrow but just getting my immediate, 'without-completely-reading-the-last-page' thoughts down.

[SpyreX]

The only problem is that I think real hard that Haylen dost be scum.

Riddle me this in detail: why is Haylen town?

[Haylen]

Why do you think I'm scum so badly, Spyrex?

Anyone going to comment on how obvious it is from those statistics that I'm being tunnelled? No? Thought not.

[Incognito]

Riddle me this in detail: why is Haylen town?

I really don't think she'd put the amount of effort she has into figuring people out in this game as she has here if she were scum. I mean seriously, she went ahead and looked into your past games for meta-gaming purposes, she would've probably done similar with me and camn had she not already done so in our past game (Mini 800), and I'm guessing she did similar with Korts and Kmd. Also there was the self-voting thing that I mentioned earlier and her initial thoughts about this set-up just seem town to me; I'd expect scum to be a bit more informed about the impossibility of bussing in this game mechanic than she seemed to let on.

Yeah, I don't agree with a bunch of stuff she's said, but I think she's reacting to pressure the way town would.

Also, let's put it this way: with Haylen being at L-1, the only person who could possibly be her scum partner is Korts (since I know I'm not scum, obv). Do you believe there is a connection between them? Do you think Korts is scummy? If so, can you point out their connection and his scummy behavior?

-~-~-~-~

Haylen, what do you currently think of Korts?

[camn]

Yeah, I don't agree with a bunch of stuff she's said, but I think she's reacting to pressure the way town would.

I am interested in a Korts lynch.
Also.. I agree with the above statement.

[Incognito]

And yet you maintain your L-1 vote on her?

...what?

[SpyreX]

@Haylen

What statistics?

I've been pretty clear why I think you're scum.

@Incog

Korts seems to have absolute minimal contact with Haylen. Which could be a connection.
Further, there is still the connection between the two of you. However:

@Camn

WHAT?

[Haylen]

@ Spyrex- These statistics, I worked out the amount of times Kmd has mentioned each of us in this game. As you can see, he's spoken about me twice as much as the rest of you and after a re-read, it appeared that each of those 40 times it was in a negative fashion. Even if every time he spoke about everyone else was in a negative way (which i know isn't true), he's still focused on me twice as much as he has the rest of you. He's been against me from the start.

Haylen's control+5 wrote:

Haylen: 40 times in 33 posts
Camn: 21 times in 33 posts
Incog: 13 times in 33 posts
Korts: 10 times in 33 posts
Spyrex: 0 times in 33 posts
Edit: "Spy" was mentioned 23 times in 33 posts

Well make a summary of why you think I'm scum then.

At the present time, I have no read on Korts as he hasn't been very active, which could could be a scumtell but that will lead me into a whole debate of whether lurking is actually a scumtell or just anti-town.

[camn]

Look.. this game is hard!

Just cuz a hypo-scum-haylen has yet to fold doesn't mean she won't!
And my not agreeing with her statements AS YET outweighs my town-reaction-read.

I am starting to think maybe I am right re: incog/korts.
BUT, I like L-1. there are no snippy newbies here to quickhammer . . .and no night-phase to hide behind. L-1 is where the rubber hits the road.

NOW..
Haylen:
YOur post.. #228.. is totally flawed in every way.
I was wondering if anyone else would bother pointing it out.. but no one has.
Re: cr3tin's...
a) no one has said your logic is ALWAYS craplogic. Why would you imply we had?
b) You got your butt kicked in that game. Right or wrong, you were ineffective.
c) you have proven nothing.

That said, I await your rant.

[Incognito]

unvote
vote: camn

Obvscum. The pairing

is

Kmd/camn. I'll settle for either lynch.

I am starting to think maybe I am right re: incog/korts.
BUT, I like L-1. there are no snippy newbies here to quickhammer . . .and no night-phase to hide behind. L-1 is where the rubber hits the road.

This seems extremely contrived. If the pairing was me/Korts, what's really preventing either one of us from concocting a case against Haylen and lynching her right this moment?

Also, how could you possibly agree with my statement that I believe Haylen is reacting to pressure the way town would react to pressure when your 224, 227, and now most recently your 242

all seem to be pretty obvious attacks on her reaction to said pressure?

[Incognito]

Korts seems to have absolute minimal contact with Haylen. Which could be a connection.

This I have noted also. I'll help you out with the other portion: I'm town.

At the present time, I have no read on Korts as he hasn't been very active, which could could be a scumtell but that will lead me into a whole debate of whether lurking is actually a scumtell or just anti-town.

Well, what do you think of the content he

has

put forth?

[Haylen]

Camn: I got lynched in cr3t1n's because of craplogic. I never got my butt kicked in that game, I just sucked, big difference. If i've proven nothing, what were yours and CTD's alignments in cr3t1n's? Mafia, no? I've proven all, kthanx.

You'll be waiting a while for my rant...i can't write them all in one sitting.

I'll answer incog when i return from being late for work.

[camn]

A) Incog-- Im town.

B) Haylen.. I wasn't mafia in Cretins.

C) I want the rant.

[camn]

If the pairing was me/Korts, what's really preventing either one of us from concocting a case against Haylen and lynching her right this moment?

Actually.. I have been hoping you would.

...all seem to be pretty obvious attacks on her reaction to said pressure?

Like I said.. I don't like how she is playing.
But the $1M question, as always, is.. just cuz I don't like it, does it make her scum?
You know I have no way to be SURE. No one else seems to care about the same things I do.. and I am not really getting a coherent debate going.......so....
Does that mean I should ease up on the pressure?
I don't think so. Not until something else catches my fancy.
BUT..
Am I getting MORE convinced she is scum? Not really. Am I SATISFIED as to her townieness? Not at all.
Thus, my vote stands.
If anything, it is useful on drawing out people's commitment to her lynch... or lack thereof, which you and I both know can be helpful info later on.

[Incognito]

Haylen, if you're considering writing a 5 million word rant again like you did in cr3t1n's game, I don't want that. You've already spent some time defending yourself against accusations here, and if you're town, I think what you really need to do now is attempt to convince people as to why the people you're

suspicious of

are scum instead of

you

being scum. You should do try to do this as concisely as you possibly can while still getting your point across. The rant doesn't do that and usually only serves to make things even more confusing.

Camn, thanks for completely ducking my true issue with your recent posts.

If the pairing was me/Korts, what's really preventing either one of us from concocting a case against Haylen and lynching her right this moment?

Actually.. I have been hoping you would.

"Hoping"?

What does the fact that I haven't suggest to you though?

[Korts]

I'm sorry about my recent absence, I'll catch up shortly.

In other news, my vacation plans have changed and I will not be V/LA between aforementioned dates. I may or may not be V/LA between 26 and 29, I will post information when i have it.