Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over

[Locke Lamora]

How did I know there was going to be a Reckoner wagon? That was before he put his vote on Jason and got called out on it; the Reckoner wagon didn't even exist.

I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes. I'd like to see some examples of what he thinks is Reckoner trying to appear town instead of just being town.

[Porochaz]

Votecount 4, Page 9

xRECKONERx - 4 - ChannelDelibird, VP Baltar, Jason, Locke Lamora
Jason - 3 - Juls, Jebus, xReckonerx
LockeLamora - 2 - Drench, curiouskarmadog
Jebus - 1 - canadianbovine


Not Voting:
Emptyger, ZONEACE

Deadline August 21st 3pm

Noone has requested a prod.

Will probably shorten longer user names, like curiouskarmadog to ckd, if anyone has a problem with that please say.

[ZONEACE]

I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes.

So wait, It's sensible but scummy? So, I did what was best for the town, but clearly that makes me scum????

Could you TRY A LITTLE HARD TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?! Why don't you just set it up so that you look good no matter which way you vote EVERYONE, set up a little thing like you just set up with me, so that no matter what happens, you don't look bad.

[VP Baltar]

I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes.

So wait, It's sensible but scummy? So, I did what was best for the town, but clearly that makes me scum????

Could you TRY A LITTLE HARD TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?! Why don't you just set it up so that you look good no matter which way you vote EVERYONE, set up a little thing like you just set up with me, so that no matter what happens, you don't look bad.

See, that is my exact problem with what LL is saying here. I personally think Zone did the right thing stepping back for a few days to let the dust settle. Even if you want to say it is scummy, that is ok (though I don't agree). The problem is when you are taking both sides on the issue.

@LL-if it made Zone more scummy in your book, and he was one of your main suspects before he took off, shouldn't you be voting him? Explain to me how Reckoner's sheeping onto the jason wagon made him more suspicious than someone you had already found suspicious?

[xRECKONERx]

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

[xRECKONERx]

By the way, I'll be V/LA through Monday. I'm on a writer's retreat for the weekend so most of my time will be devoted to it.

[xRECKONERx]

By the by, V/LA till Monday, on a retreat this weekend, may be able to check in occasionally.

[Jebus]

Hai, sorta flustered at the moment. Got back from Paul Mccartney concert at Fenway (which was amazing) pretty late, and made it home for work early this morning, and will be busy tomorrow. Will try to get a re-read + analysis either tonight or when I get back.

tl;dr - anti-prod post, V/LA till the end of tomorrow.

[ChannelDelibird]

This is one of the more interesting wagons I've been part of for a while.

(I'll be posting more tomorrow, but I wanted to say the above.)

[jasonT1981]

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

Hmmm funny, I put a case as to why you where scum i thought. not just due to your vote and misread. there are other things

And can you be 100% certain I am scum?

[Drench]

Gimme 4-5~ hours to catch up; my rhythm has been broken by my no-visiting-ms-for-drench day yesterday.(oh noes).

So, I guess what we learned today is to not set the 4-5~ hours square in the middle of your sleep. Also, preview editing is bad when you already have a period at the end of your sentence. Whee.

I can't promise a post today. I can promise one in 24 hours time. If I don't, you are free to throw polar bears at me.

[Locke Lamora]

VP: in the context of a player freaking out and being abusive over a few votes, I think it's a good decision to step away from the game. Given that Zoneace often adopts that kind of attitude from players and that his decision to step away came not earlier in the argument but when attention had shifted to Jason, I found it made him a little scummier. With regards to voting Reckoner, I thought that his following everyone onto the Jason wagon and not really doing any original scumhunting, as well as making that pointless post about roles.

[Locke Lamora]

Sorry, that should have finished with:

made him scummier than Zoneace and Jason, hence I am voting Reckoner.

[EmpTyger]

Jason:
Why does Reckoner (or anyone) need to be “100% certain” you’re mafia?

And I still would like answers to these:

why did no one quick lynch jason? =P

this here alarms me really to be honest... why has no one quick lynched me?

CB was trying to make a joke, but mixed up Jason/Jacob.
What’s your excuse for asking this?
And:

Locke, Zoneace has not really posted anything since his blowup, but recently Reckoner has been quite scummy, he has jumped on my wagon without giving any reasoning.

By this, do you mean that Zoneace is not suspicious?

---

Zoneace:
Okay about not yet voting Reckoner, but why the unvote of Jason?

---

LL:
Okay about 193, but I don’t think Reckoner’s explanation of 183 is implausible at all. Why couldn’t town have misread, and not realized the mistake until a day later?

---

CB:
HT?

[Juls]

Catching up...

Well, then, what makes him more scummy than you if you're doing the same thing? Just because you say you realize this is the case, doesn't make it any less so. So, explain what the difference is.

VP, I pose a similar question to you...why is Reckoner more scummy than Jason for doing the exact same thing that you are voting Reckoner for? Or more succinctly, what are your views of Jason?

unvote
vote: Reckoner

While I feel that Reckoner may be deserving of a vote, you jumping on the second largest wagon when I already have scum vibes from you does not sit well with me.

Juls:
I’m paraphrasing, but you seem to be saying “either Zoneace is town or he’s pretending to be town; therefore he’s town”?

No, what I meant was that if he is scum, it is pretty risky to bring THAT much attention to yourself on D1. Basically what I am saying here is his "rage" seems authentic. But...his disappearance after the big blow up and then his post 191 isn't giving me warm and fuzzies.


@ZONEACE - Re Post 191: What happened to your suspicion of Jason? Are you still suspicious of him?

every vote is on the current bandwagon (only when it is hot) spouting out what other's have said. every vote leaves himself open to jump back to the previous has needed. His net gets wider and wider....

I am with ckd on this one. We seem to have

a lot

of sheep in this game. Locke, jason, and Reckoner are the 3 most obvious examples...

====

OK, I still see no reason to move my vote off Jason but Reckoner and Locke are up there pretty solidly on my list. Also, I would like to see more from Drench than promises/non promises. Seems to be pretty lurky at the moment. Last but not least, Zoneace is very baffling to me. I was getting town vibes from him during Rage Fest 2009 but I really dislike his unvote of Jason with no explanation. He unvotes with intents to vote for Reckoner but does not explain what Jason has done to make him unvote.

[ZONEACE]

Jason hasnt done anything, i just felt reckoner was the better lynch and wanted to reread before switching.

vote reckoner

fos Jason and LL

[xRECKONERx]

So. That's me at L-2, for anyone not keeping track. Can we find a better wagon please?

I'll be back from V/LA tomorrow and be able to give this game more attention.

[ChannelDelibird]

VP: in the context of a player freaking out and being abusive over a few votes, I think it's a good decision to step away from the game. Given that Zoneace often adopts that kind of attitude from players and that his decision to step away came not earlier in the argument but when attention had shifted to Jason, I found it made him a little scummier.

This is kind of having your cake and eating it too.

I'm still dubious about Jason moving his vote only after I prompted him but Reckoner is not doing himself any favours. 183 seems implausible to me; surely he would have read back and looked at what was said when people jumped on him for the role post? Not only that, but if he didn't really buy into it, why is he trying to excuse himself now? There's not much to say about 189, it's another worthless post.

Unvote; Vote: Reckoner

This is a bad bus. See, this is such a great wagon. 2 for 1.

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

Yeah, if Reckonertown was looking at his wagon he'd be saying Locke here, not Jason.

Also I think you miss the point that the crucial words are 'when asked to'.

Can we find a better wagon please?

I doubt it.

[jasonT1981]

Jason:
Why does Reckoner (or anyone) need to be “100% certain” you’re mafia?

Well, if you are putting a vote on someone without being sure in your mind they are mafia... its a bit weird is it not? The fact he is declairing he has found the scum....

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

the fact he can say that he has already found scum... I would like to know how he is 100% sure I am scum... it is a pretty big statement to declare you have found scum.. It is almost like he knows 100% in that statement, that is why I asked can you be 100% certain as he declares I am scum

And I still would like answers to these:

why did no one quick lynch jason? =P

this here alarms me really to be honest... why has no one quick lynched me?

CB was trying to make a joke, but mixed up Jason/Jacob.
What’s your excuse for asking this?

Joke or not, I was concerned he was asking why there had been a quick lynch... sure he got mixed up, but when I saw Why has no one quick lynched Jason yet.... surely my mind is gonna start asking what?

Locke, Zoneace has not really posted anything since his blowup, but recently Reckoner has been quite scummy, he has jumped on my wagon without giving any reasoning.

By this, do you mean that Zoneace is not suspicious?

Well i made a case on him earlier in the game, so at the time I was suspicious of him... so much infact earlier I had my vote on him did I not? Though his blow up did confuse me, I can understand how it can be seen as a frustrated townie as oppossed to scummy.

It seems I am being brought under scruitiny for unvoting Zoneace and voting reckoner, I have already made a case, and explained my reasons for my reckoner vote ( see Page 8 post 176)

Still trying to catch up on a few things since having computer problems, going to watch the Man Utd vs Chelsea game so will be back later

[jasonT1981]

unvote
vote: Reckoner

While I feel that Reckoner may be deserving of a vote, you jumping on the second largest wagon when I already have scum vibes from you does not sit well with me.

Considering I built my case on him in 176(not saying it was entirely my case as others had also suspected him (the post you are partially quoted) and gave my thoughts its hardly like it was just a hop onto the wagon without any reasoning... I gave reasons in a detailed post by post of Reckoner recent postings and my thoughts on them that lead to the vote... you only quoted my vote there, you did not quote anything else I had said on the matter.

BUT

You admit he is deserving of the vote... yet then question me for voting? if he was not deserving of the vote by all means you have every right to question me about 'hopping on the wagon' but when you say it is deserving, makes me wonder why you would then question someone voting him... if it really is as you say 'deserving'

[VP Baltar]

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to

Well, let us take a look at your case for a moment:

You hammered on the discussion on Zoneace being "late to the party" on serious discussion, which I think was very gun-jumping of you.

What is the scum motivation for trying to move the game forward out of the RVS? How exactly is this jumping the gun? What should jason have waited for to make his vote on zone appropriate in your eyes?

And in your unbearable back and forth with Zoneace, I got frustrated townie vibes from him, while I got the "calm and collected scum" vibe from you.

Not everyone plays as calm scum or acts like they have an aneurism when they are town...and since you don't believe in meta, this means a whole pile of squat.

Also, WTF.

A misreading of a mistake is somehow unconvincing as a scumtell.

tl,dr-Your reasons for voting Jason are heavily padded and it was a very opportunistic wagon to try and get on at that time.

I can't promise a post today. I can promise one in 24 hours time. If I don't, you are free to throw polar bears at me.

tick tock

why is Reckoner more scummy than Jason for doing the exact same thing that you are voting Reckoner for? Or more succinctly, what are your views of Jason?

Because Reckoner is being very opportunistic and not actually scumhunting. That's the difference. As far as Jason, definitely VI but I don't have a good read on his alignment yet. He has made some tremendously stupid statements that could have scum motivations, but he also seems to at least be

trying

to hunt scum (however poorly executed those attempts are). I think there are probably better suspects to be pursuing at this time.

Ah, see, a prime example of this ridiculously scummy crap that is almost too hard to believe from jason:

the fact he can say that he has already found scum... I would like to know how he is 100% sure I am scum... it is a pretty big statement to declare you have found scum.. It is almost like he knows 100% in that statement, that is why I asked can you be 100% certain as he declares I am scum

[Juls]

You admit he is deserving of the vote... yet then question me for voting? if he was not deserving of the vote by all means you have every right to question me about 'hopping on the wagon' but when you say it is deserving, makes me wonder why you would then question someone voting him... if it really is as you say 'deserving'

Just because he is deserving of a vote doesn't mean that you aren't being opportunistic in jumping on the wagon. What do you think of other people? Most wagons are "deserving" on some level. What I have a problem with is that you are 5th on the wagon. If you made your case on him in post 176 as you say, why didn't you vote him then?

[jasonT1981]

If you made your case on him in post 176 as you say, why didn't you vote him then?

umm I did vote him in post 176 actually

unvote
vote: Reckoner

[Juls]

I'm sorry,my mistake. In my most recent post I had confused your vote and ZoneAce's recent vote as you can see by my "5th on the wagon" comment. My only valid point then from my post 221 is the first few sentences "Just because he is deserving of a vote doesn't mean that you aren't being opportunistic in jumping on the wagon. What do you think of other people? Most wagons are "deserving" on some level. " I would still like your answer to that. (Note to self, don't post before drinking caffeinated beverage)

[VP Baltar]

(Note to self, don't post before drinking caffeinated beverage)

QFT!

And here I thought I was the only one.