VP Baltar wrote:You can look at my argument with Pesco on D1 for tubby's predecessor. Before PP's miller claim I was most definitely preferring a Pesco lynch. Tubby then replaced and said very little. I didn't go after him at that point because I preferred the Juls lynch and he was supportive of it.
Could you list your reasons for suspecting Pesco? Do you think tubby is independently scummy of him?
Sotty7 wrote:This is like putting the cart before the horse isn't it? I think your scum so your suspicions must be false. Seems backwards to me.
=/
I never said her suspicions must be false, nice misrep though. I said I thought that she wasn't really suspicious of him because maybe she was scum. I think it was fairly obvious I was talking in the context of ME during that quote.
I did have a feeling about X, but some of that is dampened a little with Hero attacking him. They could be buddies, but if that was the case he probably would have put a vote on Elvis rather than X.
? What does me attacking X have to do with anything?
VP seems to be actively scum hunting and asking questions. My only wonder is why he is still alive, but that is just chock full of WIFOM. I'm thinking likely town. I really want to hear more from Hascow when he gets back to the thread.
Ok, this is the second time now. What the hell about actively scum hunting and asking questions makes someone more likely to be town? Don't scum have just as much incentive to do that?
X wrote:Hero, I strongly disagree with you over the Empking issue. He did get worse, and as FL said, "Sometimes scummy playstyles actually do roll scum. You have to go for it sometimes."
I'm not saying we should've left him alive, I probably would've supported a policy lynch of him. But players like him simply aren't scummy when they always play scummy. That's just how it is.
Show me how he got worse.
Also, what exactly is a "supersaint?" I've never seen that role before.
hasdgfas: Do you think that tubby is acting like this simply because he plays the game poorly? IE. like Empking.
ek wrote:This is my simplified version. I tried to be fair when shortening Hero's points, but I may have missed something or some nuance of his meaning, so I am leaving his original words above so that anyone can refer to it and get his full meaning.
That's fine and everything, but why do you feel the need to simplify it in the first place? You can't reply directly to my quotes?
1)
Hero: You defended moriarty, which has no town motivations, and lots of scummy ones.
Elvis: I saw a bullshit attack on moriarty, so I pointed out what was wrong with the attack. It was not dependent on moriarty's allignment. Pointing out bad attacks is a way to find scum, which is indeed pro-town.
2)
Hero: You copied people's reasons for voting juls.
Elvis: I agreed with others in that instance, but I don't have a pattern of doing that. I think for myself, but sometimes agree with people. I don't see how that is scummy.
3)
Hero: Your suspicions on image were testing the waters to see if a bandwagon would be viable.
Elvis: I don't understand this one. Why do you think I was trying to make image look more suspicious and testing the viability of a bandwagon, rather than, expressing my feelings on the guy and scum hunting? It seems like you're just ascribing motivations to me all the time which are not supported by the events, and are WIFOM at best.
4)
Elvis: Empking suspected me with "no reason."
Hero: Why does that bother you?
Elvis: People have to have reasons behind their suspicions. If they don't they are likely manufactured suspicions. And if people don't explain their reasons, you can't judge their allignment. That's handicapping the town. It's scummy.
5)
Hero: Empking was playing scummy, but he's always like that, and you should know that.
Elvis: I do know empking's meta, but I also know he actually is scum part of the time. So I try to question him to the best of my ability, and judge his allignment even though I know it's hard because of his playstyle. I am not willing to give him a free pass in every game. That would be stupid. I don't want to lynch him every game either, but I have to err on the side of caution, especially since he's not helpful anyway even when he's town.
1) Ok, everyone raise your hand if you think image's attack was bullshit. It looked legitimate to me.
2) Again you're missing the point. It isn't the fact that you agreed with them, its the fact that you just restated their reason. You didn't mention agreeing with the reason, you were just asking her something that had already been asked. Like you were trying to look like you were scum hunting but were just doing the work others had done.
3) Uhm, I was under the impression ascribing motivations to people is the whole point of scumhunting. Correct me if I'm wrong. All I said was it looked like you could be doing that, and that the post rubbed me the wrong way.
4) There's a difference between anti-town and scummy. I'll ask again: Why do you think that sort of thing was strange coming from Empking, of all people?
5) I never said anything about giving him a free pass, but you can't try to paint him as scummy,
especially when you've already acknowledged that he always acts scummy earlier in the game
. If you had suggested a policy lynch or something then I wouldn't really have a problem with it.
