The Sopranos: A Deadly Game (GAME OVER!)

[Sir Tornado]

Frankly? I don't believe that he took a job yesterday, with such low earnings -- I think he's backfilling.

Is it possible to earn money outside jobs?

[elvis_knits]

Frankly? I don't believe that he took a job yesterday, with such low earnings -- I think he's backfilling.

Is it possible to earn money outside jobs?

Yes. I did not do a job and I earned money last night. zoneace has said he did also, and I think zwet did too. We all said we earned more than raj without doing a job.

[mneme]

But I guess we shouldn't assume anything about night actions vs. jobs based on earnings?

I guess.

you guess? I've stated that you do not have to take a job to earn money.

That doesn't mean we don't assume anything about night actions vs jobs based on earnings, though.

Someone who is among the top money earners probably either took a job and got the big bucks, or has a huge income. And if they took a job and claim it, that can be tested by seeing if anyone counterclaims the job.

Someone who earns the least money probably -didn't- take a job (thus, had a night action) and is low-status. Which means they're not high in the Family's trust/hierarchy, -and- they have a night action. Think this is suspcious? So do I.

[elvis_knits]

Is it possible raj did a job but had to kick up so much money because he's that low in the organization?

[inHimshallibe]

Well, I guess I'm back for now.

Noticing something weird...

Alko

was the first one to say that raj took a job last night:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

And then raj confirmed it, but not before alko said it.

So, this is probably partly where the misunderstanding came from about earnings and jobs. I remember I just sort of assumed this was right because I didn't actually understand the earnings thing yet. (Yesterday I had several PM's with the mod trying to figure out how earning work... and am not even sure I understand all the special mechanics yet.)

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1)Alko thought listed earnings were only from jobs (which is what I assumed after reading his post and raj's confirming the job). Or some other misunderstanding which led him to think that raj took a job?

or

2)Alko

KNEW

raj did a job last night. If it's this -- how did alko know? This option naturally makes me suspicious of them. I guess there are roles besides scum that could communicate at night, but scum is a definite possibility.

ALKO -- please explain why you thought/knew raj did a job last night?

This is what we at Pack call a "HOLY CRAP!"

The way alko's post reads, I'm certain he knows raj took a job.

vote: raj

- this one's easy. We vote raj as earning little money seems suspicious and because of the alleged slip by al.

[rajrhcpfreak]

Noticing something weird...

Alko

was the first one to say that raj took a job last night:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

And then raj confirmed it, but not before alko said it.

So, this is probably partly where the misunderstanding came from about earnings and jobs. I remember I just sort of assumed this was right because I didn't actually understand the earnings thing yet. (Yesterday I had several PM's with the mod trying to figure out how earning work... and am not even sure I understand all the special mechanics yet.)

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1)Alko thought listed earnings were only from jobs (which is what I assumed after reading his post and raj's confirming the job). Or some other misunderstanding which led him to think that raj took a job?

or

2)Alko

KNEW

raj did a job last night. If it's this -- how did alko know? This option naturally makes me suspicious of them. I guess there are roles besides scum that could communicate at night, but scum is a definite possibility.

ALKO -- please explain why you thought/knew raj did a job last night?

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.


FOS inhim

you vote for me because of somthing alko said? i can only assume that he was thinking like me because all i knew was that i had taken a job.

now there is somthing there, did you take a job alko?
i think alko just confessed to not taking a job.

[rajrhcpfreak]

should we mass claim on who did a job last night?

[elvis_knits]

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.


FOS inhim

you vote for me because of somthing alko said? i can only assume that he was thinking like me because all i knew was that i had taken a job.

now there is somthing there, did you take a job alko?
i think alko just confessed to not taking a job.

raj... what are you saying... that you weren't sure whether you had done a job or not? How did you not know?

And why is not taking a job scummy?

[elvis_knits]

should we mass claim on who did a job last night?

I say no.

[rajrhcpfreak]

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.


FOS inhim

you vote for me because of somthing alko said? i can only assume that he was thinking like me because all i knew was that i had taken a job.

now there is somthing there, did you take a job alko?
i think alko just confessed to not taking a job.

raj... what are you saying... that you weren't sure whether you had done a job or not? How did you not know?

And why is not taking a job scummy?

1. i knew i took the job. at first i thought that the three people mentioned were the only people that took a job. i should have known when I didnt get the full amount that there was more people in between #2 and me. only when SSF352 reposted the rules i realized what was going on.

2. not taking a job means you might have made one of the three kills last night.

[Porochaz]

raj, how much money did you earn on the job alone?

[Porochaz]

Never mind, I reread the thing. It doesnt say.

[mneme]

I'm going to Worldcon tomorrow early. Might not post until next Tuesday -- sorry about that (might have wifi somewhere in Montreal -- dunno), if so.

I'm a little mixed here.

On the one hand, raj's claim that he gets no income is provable -- just don't take a job tomorrow and you'll show up as having 0 income (and worst earner).

On the other hand, there's Raj suggesting a mass "I didn't have a night action" claim -- which is tres scummy, as scum can lie, and thus what it mostly does is expose power roles to the scum. Not cool.

Moreover, Raj proving he didn't take a night action last night proves nothing except that he's not a serial killer. But I'm not thinking he's a SK -- I'm thinking he's part of an evil group--and one member of an evil group might have done a kill while the rest took jobs. So even if he did do a job last night, this far from clears him.

[Porochaz]

In regards to cash I have no problem with raj.

[Gorrad]

Howdy all. I'm V/LA at the moment and have a lot more reading to do, but I'll post content as soon as time and technology allow.

[Dr. Melfi]

Empking, fuzzylightning, and MonkeyMan576 have been prodded.

[Empking]

Is it possible raj did a job but had to kick up so much money because he's that low in the organization?

That seems unlikely.

[elvis_knits]

We need everyone to comment on these issues:

1)Alko said raj took a job before raj admitted it.

2)Raj says he took a job, yet he is also the lowest earner.
(Is it possible he had to kick up so much money because of his place in the org?)

3)Raj suggests we claim if we did jobs last night.

[inHimshallibe]

We need everyone to comment on these issues:

1)Alko said raj took a job before raj admitted it.

2)Raj says he took a job, yet he is also the lowest earner.
(Is it possible he had to kick up so much money because of his place in the org?)

3)Raj suggests we claim if we did jobs last night.

We should not be claiming jobs.

And raj still hasn't given a Big Three, that I can see. rajscum.

[inHimshallibe]

Whoops, forgot to address the bolded:

If it turns out that the low man on the totem pole has to "kick up," then raj is a bit more verifiable. However, there still remains alko's post. One of the two need to die. Perhaps that is best left to the vig.

I think it's a slip.

[elvis_knits]

It's true about kicking up money, you can see it in the rules:

Based on a player's position within the organization, they will have to kick up a portion of their profits to their superiors.

But also, players earn a base amount:

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization. After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.

So even if raj is like the lowest guy possible, could he have gotten his base salary and done a job, and still only made 3,000, even if we figure that he had to kick up money and his base might be low?

[inHimshallibe]

It's true about kicking up money, you can see it in the rules:

Based on a player's position within the organization, they will have to kick up a portion of their profits to their superiors.

Ha, I should try re-reading.

But also, players earn a base amount:

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization. After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.

So even if raj is like the lowest guy possible, could he have gotten his base salary and done a job, and still only made 3,000, even if we figure that he had to kick up money and his base might be low?

That's all

possible

, as I rarely like to play "outguess the mod." Doesn't make the interaction any less suspicious, imo.

unvote

- this is a vig issue, I feel.

I'll try and catch up on what I missed.

[elvis_knits]

if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.

On the one hand, raj's claim that he gets no income is provable -- just don't take a job tomorrow and you'll show up as having 0 income (and worst earner).

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

Does this sound like a player could have a base amount of $0?

[inHimshallibe]

if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.

On the one hand, raj's claim that he gets no income is provable -- just don't take a job tomorrow and you'll show up as having 0 income (and worst earner).

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

Does this sound like a player could have a base amount of $0?

I think raj is just mistaken in that first quote - I see nowhere that I can find my base income.

[elvis_knits]

I see that as possible, that he was just confused where his earnings came from and didn't know he had a base salary since he had done a job and figured his money came from a job. Although his whole explanation about not know he had a job is a bit weird. It's hard to tell definitively since the special mechanics are confusing, so I can understand people getting confused (I know I have been at different point, and maybe still am).

This is the weirdness for me:

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.

1)Everyone didn't have jobs, so he's mistaken there.
2)Sounds like his low amount of money told him that a)he did a job, b)he's low on the totem pole, and c)if he didn't do a job he would have $0.

My problem with that is that it seems like he wasn't sure he did a job until he saw the money posted, which doesn't make sense, because I think you should know if you signed up for a job or not.

Also the $0 money thing, but I guess that's just him making assumptions not knowing that we earn a base amount.

ANYWAY, I also think we really need to hear from alko.