Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[camn]

a) im tipsy. maybey more than that.

b) getting mislynched is no problem if you go on to win.

c) I will not bold for you.

d) look at spyrex's post. he is obvtown.

3) incog = ether

f) korts is acting fishy. I dont know what it is.. but its fishy.

[Korts]

Sorry about my sudden lack of activity, I've got a health exam tomorrow, I've been spending a lot of my time studying. Expect me to catch up after tomorrow.

[Haylen]

So...I'm ill again, go figure.

c) I will not bold for you.

I am glad. That was my way of asking if nobody minded if I did it. Don't ask, thus is just the way of the Ruler of the World. I'll probably get bored of it by 3 or 4 posts, 8 at the most.

INCOGNITO IS ETHER? OMG! That can't be true, Ether is his pimp.

Korts is probably acting fishy cause he hasn't been very active. He mentioned a health exam on scumchat though, so I believe him with that.

[Incognito]

SpyreX:

fair enough.

My thinking was more along the lines of if Haylen is scum, then by self-voting, she just reduced the number of town votes necessary in order to lynch her (like you said, in this game, we basically need the entirety of the town

(

4 votes

)

to vote for scum in order for scum to be lynched). A self-voting scum would reduce this number by one to a total of 3 town votes necessary. Not to mention the fact that some people have a habit of enforcing policy lynches on people who self-vote; I don't know if any of the people in this group do so, but yeah, it's still risky behavior for scum, imo.

Haylen:

That's really damn annoying. Please stop. I thought you were learning the concept of

condensing

your posts from Ether? Oh and no, I don't really plan on bolding people's names. I do it in certain instances but not all the time.


That aside, I'm really not seeing Haylen as scum at this time. She's playing pretty much the exact same way I remember her playing in Mini 800 - cr3t1n's mafier where she was mislynched as town. Combine that with the self-vote, and the general feel I get from her posts, and yeah, I just wouldn't lend my support to her wagon. I don't necessarily agree with everything she's said up to now, but I get the feeling that

she

genuinely believes what she's saying and isn't attempting to push things for malicious purposes.

I don't think my case is very strong.. and MORE importantly.. I don't think it is

defensible

at all.. thus you need to get scummier before you earn my vote!

3) incog = ether

So 46 posts later, your case against me still amounts to what it previously amounted to in post 54. Why do you still think I'm scum, and why do you think Korts is my buddy? Also, if Korts and I are such obvious buddies, why haven't you voted for either one of us yet?

Also, you've said what you think about SpyreX, do you have any thoughts about Kmd and Haylen? It's strange that you've made almost no game-related comments about Kmd all game.

Ftr, I haven't really seen anything out of the ordinary from Korts thus far aside from the fact that he went silent as of recent, so do you also mind elaborating on what's been fishy about him?

-~-~-~-~-~

At the moment, I can definitely see the appeal for a Kmd/camn scum pairing. I

thought

I saw a minor connection between Kmd and SpyreX, but I'm not really feeling that one as much as the Kmd/camn one at this time. Common denominator appears to be Kmd.

[camn]

KMD is not tunneling.
KMD can't have cleared us that early!
KMD is not obvtown, like spyrex.

RE: Incog.
YOU HAVE TO BE SCUM SOMETIME!!!!
You can't ALWAYS be town!!!!

Statistics be damned.

[Incognito]

This is a good topic for you to read: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 7s_Fallacy

[camn]

I know all that stuff.. BUT I'M JUST SAYIN!!

Plus.. what is your defense?
You know that Ether was scum-driven when she did it... did you think it was a pro-town move.. that just happened to come from scum?

[Incognito]

I didn't care whether or not it was a pro-town move when I did it here. I just thought it was a good way to kick off the game and exit the RVS in a hurry by watching your reactions (especially if I actually DID catch you in something legitimately scum-motivated if you happen to be scum here) and watching the reactions of the other players in the game.

If you're asking me what I thought about it at the time Ether did it, yes, I thought it was a very pro-town move that just so happened to be coming from scum.

[camn]

Hmm.
Well, that throws off my world-view a tiny bit.

Why would scum do something so pro-town?
Before you say "to look town" remember that we both nailed her Day 1, right?

[Haylen]

Code: Select all

 Haylen's Pissed-o-scale (1-10)
Currently a 3/10 

^ you want me to be between 3 and 6. 1 and 2 are apparently too jokey for mafia games, the 'spyrex spyrex spyrex' post was an 8. Pissed-o-scale...the way in which Haylen shall now convey her anger/frustration rather than being annoying. If that's ok.


Riert so...I'm sorry I was annoying, everyone can just disregard those posts, that's why I'm not allowed to post when grumpy.

Incog

I was slightly freaked out by the lack of RVS cause I've never had a a non-RVS game before. I don't understand how you can find the reactions of non RVS scummy...not sure what you're getting at there Incog. Explain please? Or leave it to end game discussion if you wish...

But, I really don't understand the Incog=Ether thing...I think I might be taking things literally again?

I don't want bolding now. It doesn't help. Just ignore that request.

camn

Kmd is in the early stages of tunnelling
Kmd can't have cleared us all this early
Kmd and Spyrex are both scummy to me.

Like you are.

I don't like you using the gamblers fallacity thing as an offense against Incog, it would be slightly more (but not much more) note worthy is he used it the otherway round ie 'I can't be scum because I can't be scum all the time' It is more likely a person will get a town role than a mafia role.

[camn]

I'm not using it as an offense.
HOWEVER.. the more games I play with incog-town.. the more I am WAITING for incog-scum to show up. It has to be some time. FrRls!
Statistics be damned.. no one can always be town.

Incog=Ether because he did the

exact same thing

Ether did in a recent game... and Ether flipped scum.
But, if I believe that INCOG really thought it was a pro-town play.. then it is not as damning.
My previous supposition was this:

-Scum KNOW thier accusations are false.
-Thus..Scum cases are scum-logic-cases.
-Ether attacked Incog on /confim grounds.
-Ether was scum.
-Thus the /confirm case was scum-logistical.
-Incog KNEW all this.
-Incog argued the /confirm case.
-Thus INCOG was scum-tastic.

However, Incog disputes point #2 ("Thus..Scum cases are scum-logic-cases.")
Incog states that SOMETIMES, scum cases are pro-town cases?

Hmm.

I am going to have to mull over the logic of this.
How can a scum-driven accusation of a townie be pro-town?

[Incognito]

I lost a response to camn because MS went down for me.

Camn, I didn't nail Ether on Day 1 actually;

you

did however. If you recall, the only reason why I eventually ended up thinking Ether was scum was because I was a Watcher with a positive result against her during Night 1. I thought Ether was town even when I GOT the result -- I was thinking that maybe she was some kind of Quack Doctor or something.

What is the point of this line of questioning anyway? You're like hinging onto this one single accusation I made towards you that I used to kick the game off and not even BOTHERING to comment on anything or anyone else in this game. Even I moved on from that and began focusing on yours and other people's reactions, but you just don't seem willing to. I'm beginning to wonder if this is all some kind of smokescreen attempt to keep either you or your poss-buddy out of the limelight.

I was slightly freaked out by the lack of RVS cause I've never had a a non-RVS game before. I don't understand how you can find the reactions of non RVS scummy...not sure what you're getting at there Incog. Explain please?

You don't understand how I could try to determine people's alignments by just jumping straight into the actual meat of the game and not going through some "random banter" stage? If you don't understand that, then what do you perceive the basic premise of the game of Mafia to be?

[Haylen]

I don't adapt easily. I've got nothing against it. Just didn't understand why it was skipped *shrugs*

[Incognito]

unvote, vote: Kmd

L-1.

[Incognito]

I don't adapt easily. I've got nothing against it. Just didn't understand why it was skipped *shrugs*

To catch off-guard scum.

[Haylen]

How does it catch off guard scum?

[Incognito]

Picture this (do note that I know my own alignment, so I'm discussing this from my perspective):

-~- Scum are expecting the game to play out in a certain way.
-~- A townie comes out with a half-decent case against, say, another person whose alignment is unknown.
-~- If the person whose alignment is unknown happens to be scum, then wouldn't you think he or she would be thrown off and wouldn't completely know how to react to the townie's accusations?
-~- In a game like this where the scum are so dependent on one another's survival to actually win the game (they're Mafia LOVERS after all), I'd even expect the hypothetical scum's buddy to also be sent reeling and not really knowing how to react as well.
-~- Now think about how both camn and Kmd reacted to my accusation early on and how camn has hinged on this single thing I've done without commenting on much else even in the face of a mounting Kmd-wagon.

I think that should answer your question.

[SpyreX]

Kmd's questioning of me appears as though it is the early stages of tunnelling. His questions only appear to be directed at Haylen and he seems certain that she is scum. This amounts to tunnelling, but because we are only a few pages into the gae, it would not be deep enough to be considered full tunnelling - it is still in the early stages. Also known as Selective Scumhunting, it was said by Tarhalindur that Tunnelling is a scumtell. Tarhalindur is a well respected member of the Mafia Scum community and it is necessary to conclude that he would have the experience and knowlege to for Haylen, herself, to trust his word and tells when she is scumhunting, which is why she believes Kmd's tunnelling is a scumtell.

Why all the qualitative language (appears, seems, amounts).

How in the name of everything is that selective scumhunting?

But the big one is - why the appeal to outside authority? If you think he is tunneling you think he is. What does Tar have to do with any of that?

Do you really want me to express my views on mentioning your name again? The only people I am connected to in this game are the townies, but since I don't know who they are, I don't really want to be connected to anyone. You don't want to be connected to anyone probably because you fear you will be accused of being scum and have the town lynch you, then we'll win because you are probably scum with Kmd.

Do I need to go pick out where you've mentioned me specifically and how that creates a false connection that in a lovers game especially a.) doesn't make sense and b.) is scummy by nature?

I will agree that I do not talk like a townie, I know the theory almost perfectly, still a few things I get muddled here and there though. But if I don't know something, I can easily find out. The walking, however, is an entirely different kettle of fish. My playstyle is...'developing' as Ether put it. I make mistakes, I do stupid things and sometimes I just can't seem to get the hang of it. But, someone else said that's just down to lack of experience. So how you can say my actions don't coincide with that of an experienced player, i have no idea. Only completed 3 games.

I'm not playing the Newbie Card, I have much contempt for the use of the Newbie Card even in newbie games. I'm just using fact to contradict your statement. I have no wish for anyone here to treat me like a newbie, how on earth would that prove that I'm just as good as you lot? It wouldn't, it's counter-productive.

So, you post a giant paragraph about being new but not playing the newbie card?

Further, what statement of mine does any of this contradict?

I am going to use meta. I like meta, and I think it can be worth quite a lot in games. The views on it are obviously subjective so neither can be proven. Basically, you can say what you want about it, you can threaten to build a crap case against me to get me lynched because of it, you can curse and kick and scream all you like, I'm still going to use it. It has been worth quite a lot in my others games, so I am going to continue using it within cases against people regardless of your opinion.

Use it all you want. I'm not a dictator (sadly). However, I will call BS when it is used improperly (which is a majority of the time).

Further... you've talked an awful lot about using meta (mine specifically) but haven't in fact USED it for anything.

No comprende. Rephrase or explain?

Even if you, yourself, didn't think up the hammer-manuever and the scum gain your partner (whom I have to assume wasn't voting for you thus in the subset of Korts, Incog, Camn) sure as hell would have thought of it.

Other short post coming asap.

[SpyreX]

Incog:

Are you voting KMD as a function of being camn's partner or am I missing something?

(there will be more after this is answered)

[Incognito]

No, my vote isn't just based on the fact that I could see him as camn's partner (that would be silly -- a hypothetical camn-scum or any scum for that matter could easily attempt to draw a connection between himself or herself and any other townie in the game to create a mislynch opportunity). My vote is based on a lot of things:

1)

I think Haylen is town (see my previous reasoning). I know I'm town. And there's a two-person wagon on someone who I think is town. My guess is that at least one of the two people on that wagon is scum.

2)

I don't like how Kmd has steadily changed his reasoning for voting Haylen or suspecting (or even LACK of suspecting) you. He very clearly stated that a you-vote and a Haylen-vote were interchangeable since he, for the most part, couldn't see Korts, me, and camn as anything but town. He eventually changed his reasoning for voting Haylen to voting her for her reaction and changed his you-read to a null one. I'm just not buying his thought progression there.

Other things about his play are reminding me more of his scum play than his town play as well.

3)

I do want to see what camn does now that an L-1 wagon is on Kmd. I'm still baffled by the fact that she apparently thinks Korts/me are obv scum partners but hasn't voted for either one of us. Even more baffling is how Kmd, who claims to KNOW camn so well, hasn't commented on how out-of-character this is coming from camn.

I'm trying to accommodate for potential confirmation bias, but I just see a lot of things pointing to one direction and it's hard to shake at the moment. Not saying that I want Kmd lynched right this moment, but I think L-1 in Lovers games reveals more than any other vote count.

[SpyreX]

Its not often that I am ready to pounce all over something and then a wall of SENSE rears its ugly head and stops me.

If you're scum I'd eat a hat.

I'd like to see camn's response and/or kmd's as well.

[camn]

I have no real problem with a KMD lynch.... although I don't really see the case.

TBH, as Spyrex and KMD know, this game has been getting a little overshadowed by a DIFFERENT game that we are in....
But I will try and do better. I like you guys more.
(I AM out of town this weekend though!!)

Anyway.. I think KMD has kind of lulled me to sleep by calling me 'obvtown' right away....
Maybe I have been overlooking him.
Let me check him in ISO.
Hmm.

Nope. Dont see the case at all.
He is townhunting.. which might be a good strategy given the fact that we are all so chummy. Sometimes it is easier to find townies than scum.

OF COURSE.. it is REALLY easy if you know who they are.

I obv wouldn't dancing on KMD's grave... but I am not convinced enough to hammer right now.
PLUS, I think it is a little early, no? It hasn't even been a week and you guys are all up in arms!

PS.. you are right, Incog...
I like you guys so much I almost forgot my intense need to kill.
That is weird.

VOTE: KORTS

1) I think townhunting is TOTALLY legit.
2) Who takes classes in the summer?
3) WHAT quote wars?? this is a 6-person game!!
4) Ketchup.

[Haylen]

4) Ketchup.

I agree.

[Haylen]

Ok, this question cannot wait any longer. It has been bugging me since cr3t1n's. And will continue bugging me til I get an answer:

camn: Why know capital 'C' for your name?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I'm at L-1 and probably going to be lynched which is fine. I'm calling a Haylen/Korts scum team. Good luck Day 2.