Newbie 803 - Game Over.

[Vino]

No problem. Hello everybody. I've got to read 24 pages now, here I go.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 2.7

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

Porkens: 3: Hurleys_Van (3), Einlanzers (5), jammer (7)
Einlanzers: 1: Porkens (10)

Not voting: Col.Cathart, Head_Honcho, Vino

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Currently Porkens would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 4:00 PM EDT/1:00 PM PDT on Thursday, July 30th.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Vino]

O dam how did I end up in another game with Honcho? (AKA adding to my watch list.)

[Vino]

Okay so here's a read and commentary as I read through the game:

I like VP Baltar's early play even if I don't pick up on his view of Clara.

I'm glad Santos isn't playing anymore. So many things he said were scummy (I'm only on page 5 mind you, he hasn't been lynched yet) and already he looks like the scum. 124 looks like a slip. If he didn't flip townie I'd have sworn up and down that he's scum.

I think Ein's frustration and then renewed interest in the game speaks pretty townly of him, even if it probably wasn't intentional. I think I believe 145. In retrospect, this makes Porkens look bad in my eyes for tunneling on him so early in the game.

When I was Lupo I was also on a quest to save the world and frankly it took first priority.

Something always tickles me about your sense of humor. Maybe it's because I don't have one.

Porkensvane. (The Porkens weathervane.)

Second instance of "Don't blame me, I'm a newbie!" from Clara

Chi reads town, largely for this post.

Oh wait I replaced Chi, so that's pretty useless isn't it.

Up to page 18 and the beginning of D2. I see a bit of a rift opening between Honcho and Chi, who I am replacing. I can't really say I see the same case against Honcho that Chi saw against him. It seems more like a premeditated OMGUS to me, rationalizing another player as town because they are attacking him, which I've seen Chi do before. On the other hand though I think Honcho's case against Chi was a bit of a stretch too, which mostly circumstantial evidence.

What I am noticing that is odd about Honcho is his verbosity. He certainly isn't this vocal in another game I'm in with him. I'm trying to figure out what it says about his role. What are your thoughts on this topic Honcho? (Obviously don't comment on that game as it is still in progress -- only this one.)

I really don't like this post. Especially from an IC. It reeks of WIFOM and scumminess, but I wouldn't expect an IC to act so blatantly scummy, especially in a newbie game. Since I don't get it, I don't like it.

Okay so he's a cop and that confirms my vague suspicions. You know Porkins, there are ways to behave as a cop that don't involve looking ridiculously scummy.

1) Porkens replaced into Sensfan's role. In newbie setups, Sensfan frequently likes to claim cop as scum in lylo (he's done this in a game I've been in with him. More importantly, he's done this in a game Santos has been in with him) and I can see him not wanting to deal with defending an actual cop claim with that kind of meta working against him.

This is the worst kind of meta. (Worst in the sense that it is reaching, not in the sense that it is scummy to use.) You're trying to apply motives to SensFan. I think he just didn't want to be in any other games with Santos.

READ OVER!

Now my analysis. We are at RB/Doc/Cop or Cop only if Porkens is telling the truth, or we are at Doc only or RB only if Porkens is lying. Either way, unless the real cop is in hiding, scum now know what the setup is. I like laying them out all in a row so I can see them.

---

Possibility 1:

Porkens cop, Hidden doc, Scum with RB.

Tonight, Porkens gets protected but also roleblocked, or I die and Porkens gets roleblocked, or Porkens dies because the doc protects me, or doc protects me and Porkens lives but probably also gets roleblocked.

---

Possibility 2:

Porkens cop, no doc, Scum with no RB.

Tonight, me or Porkens dies.

---

Possibility 3:

Porkens scum, real cop or doc hidden or nonexistant.

Tonight someone other than Porkens dies.

---

Personally I'm inclined to give him a chance. His story is consistent. Consistency is more important than scumminess in this case, and so far he hasn't said anything inconsistent, except for one thing: Porkens, if you don't like Ein so much then why did you investigate Chi last night and not Ein? How do you explain your tunneling and weathervane actions on D1?

In the meantime, I am going to refrain from voting until I can go back and re-read Hurley, jammer, and Cathart, who are my remaining scum suspects. Einlanzers and Honcho I think are town, or very well-played scum. I'd rather avoid lynching Porkens tonight because we can gain information from Mafia's choice of NK. If there is a real cop then Porkens is soon toast anyway.

Lastly I sense a slowdown in the game's momentum lately, so everybody

POST MORE!!!

[Einlanzers]

Nice long post, Vino. I'm glad to see that Chia got replaced by another person who posts quite a bit of content .

Secondly, sorry I haven't been around much. Yesterday was my birthday and I've been relaxing/having fun all weekend.

@Vino,
You post that H_H seems quite towny to you. What post(s) make you think that?
Also how can you go from critiquing Porkens so much on his irrational actions to saying that he plays consistantly, and that he must be town?

[Head_Honcho]

oh my god anyone but vino

[Porkens]

I thought it was reduntant to investigate lazers. He'll get himself hung one way or another without a cop report. I went for a less obv. scum and was totally dissapointed.

[Head_Honcho]

words

hey there's a post about you

Jam: You say overthinking but you seem to be describing underthinking. Either way I don't agree with you. I'm having a really hard time understanding parts of your post. I didn't forget d, I explicitly discounted it.

As for his votes on you and Ein, I realize that both of you are voting him. And yes, so is HV. I could easily see a townie thinking Ein or HV are scum, I'm leaning that way myself! I could also see a cop feeling a bit like scum were trying to railroad him if they claimed and then you voted them in response. You're saying his case is bad because he is scum instead of critiquing the actual case.

I mean, come on, HV's reaction to 'people need to be posting' is "I don't think we're getting anywhere". Ein opened the day with "It sure does suck that we lynched a townie guys I was right all along" when at the same time I was scum for having second thoughts at the end of day one. You're going to have a hard time convincing me the only reason to suspect these guys is that you're da scum.

[Vino]

oh my god anyone but vino

Haha! I feel the <3. I didn't realize you were in this game when Zorblag was looking for a replacement.

Ein, it's not any particular post. His behavior at the end of day one spoke pretty townly to me. I don't see any scum motivation for pulling back from the Santos lynch. Also I see a lot of scum hunting from him. Also happy birthday.

Concerning Porkens, he looked pretty scummy near the beginning of the game, and his play can still be interpreted as scummy, but none of it (latest explanation notwithstanding) is inconsistent with the explanation that he is also a cop. I don't think he

must

be town, but I do think that he has a good chance of being our real cop, and that it would be a wrong move to lynch him D2.

Porkens, other than an appeal to emotion and newbie defenses I don't see much of a case against Ein from you in D1. Also you said you believed his claim (twice). Now you say it was redundant to investigate Ein because he is obvscum, but from my read it looks like at that time you thought he was obvtown. What's the deal?

Honcho I think I asked a question of you, if you please

[Head_Honcho]

I think I intentionally ignored it for reasons you can probably figure out. What I will say which regards no game in particular is that I always end up hating large games and I always hate myself for joining them.

[Porkens]

I was wrong to believe his claim I think. It's all appeals to emotion on a level inconsistent with sincerity.

[Head_Honcho]

If there is a cop that wants to counterclaim he should do that immediately.

[Zorblag]

Mod Note: Prodding Col.Cathart and Hurleys_Van

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Head_Honcho]

Do you guys not realize how close we are to deadline? Cathart I know I've seen you online : (

[Col.Cathart]

3 days already? D'oh! Sorry for this guys. Hectic time at work. I was online, but I was only reading short posts, because I didn't have time to read everything

I have a thoughts about latest stuff, but give me an hour or something, so I can wrap all things up.

Once again sorry. I really thought I still have some time before the prod. Post coming...

[Einlanzers]

Vino,
You don't think Porkens vote on me seems scummy? If it isn't scummy is it personal? Short-sighted? What?

[Col.Cathart]

Right. I caught up. First things first, hey there Vito!

Now. Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't notice anywhere Ein's answer to HH's post 590

I know you never stated you knew Santos was town, my problem is you never stated you thought he was town. Also, apparently you're trying to use what you didn't like about the Santos wagon to.. Further the Porkens wagon? You're basically saying 'these were worthless points against Santos, but DING they apply to Porkens too!'. Additionally, they weren't really the points against Santos, nobody wanted to lynch him for being sarcastic. And I don't know if anybody's accusing Porkens of tunneling... If anything it's more that he's bandwagoning.

Though, I don't know why I'm banging my head against the wall here. What it comes down to is that you're lying. You basically called me scum yesterday when I was saying I was uneasy about lynching Santos. You open today with this post:

The Santos wagon looks awfully scummy now:
Porkens (15), VP Baltar (18), jammer (25), Col.Cathart (30), Head_Honcho (31)
And with VP out of the picture that just leaves:
Porkens, jammer, Col. Cathart, and Head_Honcho.

I assume at least one of those is scum (if not 2). And seeing as CC and HH were the last 2 to vote on him make them the most suspicious in my books. The last thing we need right now is another mislynch. I'm glad that I was correct in my assumptions of Santos being town, but saddened that he was mislynched :/.

Which seems to contrast slightly with one of your last posts of day one:

New list:
1) Porkens
2) jammer
3) Santos

It worries me that you refuse to answer for this inconsistency.

Actually it worried me as well, and since you didn't answer this one, you're getting another minus in my book, Ein.

In Porkens case, really nothing changed in my opinion. We are in dead end here, and only way to know the truth is to lynch Porkens. And I want to wait with this especially because, of HV.

Yes, I know, I will sound like a hypocrite here. Really sorry for this once again.

HV was called for active lurking. In response he gave us a one liner, which helped nothing and solved nothing. He went silent once again (isn't that 3 prod for him already?), and that's about it. If Porkens is ignoring call on him for playing scummy, then HV is doing it in spades.

So my current list of suspects right now:

1) Hurleys Van
2) Einlanzers
3) Porkens

Unfortunately, lynching the first one seems impossible now, but I'm gonna try anyway. I wanted to hammer Porkens several times already, but HH's and Vito's explanations made me change my mind. It's actually a bit weird, that two other players did it, instead of Porkens himself ~^

vote: Hurley's Van

[Vino]

Vino,
You don't think Porkens vote on me seems scummy? If it isn't scummy is it personal? Short-sighted? What?

Well...

Einlanzers

: votes for jammer even after

extensive pro-town behavior (this was the root of

my origional vote on Lazers). Reacts extremely

defensive and OMGUS -ly to Jammer's attack, but

says nothing about Clara's vote.

Continuous Appeals to emotion. Bizzare vote on

jonnydelawelsh.

...

unvote, vote Lazerz

Other than the fact that he can't seem to get your name right I don't see anything particularly personal or scummy about that. I might actually agree with him on the OMGUS point. I don't see as much of a case against you as he does though. Maybe you see something that I don't?

[Einlanzers]

Now. Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't notice anywhere Ein's answer to HH's post 590

I know you never stated you knew Santos was town, my problem is you never stated you thought he was town. Also, apparently you're trying to use what you didn't like about the Santos wagon to.. Further the Porkens wagon? You're basically saying 'these were worthless points against Santos, but DING they apply to Porkens too!'. Additionally, they weren't really the points against Santos, nobody wanted to lynch him for being sarcastic. And I don't know if anybody's accusing Porkens of tunneling... If anything it's more that he's bandwagoning.

Though, I don't know why I'm banging my head against the wall here. What it comes down to is that you're lying. You basically called me scum yesterday when I was saying I was uneasy about lynching Santos. You open today with this post:

The Santos wagon looks awfully scummy now:
Porkens (15), VP Baltar (18), jammer (25), Col.Cathart (30), Head_Honcho (31)
And with VP out of the picture that just leaves:
Porkens, jammer, Col. Cathart, and Head_Honcho.

I assume at least one of those is scum (if not 2). And seeing as CC and HH were the last 2 to vote on him make them the most suspicious in my books. The last thing we need right now is another mislynch. I'm glad that I was correct in my assumptions of Santos being town, but saddened that he was mislynched :/.

Which seems to contrast slightly with one of your last posts of day one:

New list:
1) Porkens
2) jammer
3) Santos

It worries me that you refuse to answer for this inconsistency.

Actually it worried me as well, and since you didn't answer this one, you're getting another minus in my book, Ein.

What am I supposed to answer here? Why they aren't consistent? They seem pretty consistent to me. I'm saying that the whole bandwagon for Santos looks scummy (including jammer and Porkens) after I made my top 3 list. Also you have to keep in mind that with new evidence comes new opinions. You think after Santos is lynched and found to be a towny I wouldn't change my opinion at all? I really don't get what BOTH of you are asking me. My top 2 people were still on my list even AFTER a lynch..that seems more than consistent to me...

[Head_Honcho]

...

what.

THE POINT IS YOU DID NOT THINK SANTOS WAS TOWN, YOU ARE JUST USING IT TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK ADORABLE TODAY. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED.

I am down to

Vote Hurley's Van

[jammer]

hmm, okay. Other view Porkens is at L-1 for a while now.

If he would be cop, or a mafia is not hammering. Or HV and Ein are both mafia.(fmpov) Or mafia is for some reason delaying laying down a hammer on Porkens, where I wouldn't see any point in at all.

fmpov, it would be a rather coinfidence if both Ein and HV are scum. And both where the first 2 to jump on the Porkens wagon. Not really likely.

Also as cc said, any defence of Porkens himself has not changed my mind at all. If anything, others are doing the defending for him. That doesn't make me want to trust Porkens.

@Ein,
I think this is part of the question directed at you. I think this would add.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 00#1744700

In the same post.
You found Santos scummy and listed him 3th. You list me and Porkens 1st and 2nd mainly for voting Santos besides voting you.

Explained as, Santos looks scummy to me.
Porkens and jammer are scum for voting Santos.

I hope this helps you understand HH's question.

[Head_Honcho]

see, THAT is wifom. In a non lylo situation it does not inherently make him scummy when nobody hammers him. We have a deadline midday tomorrow, I don't know if this has been made clear, but basically we lynch somebody else or our claimed cop gets lynched. We are in a much better position information wise to decide whether or not we want to believe porkens tomorrow. It is nonideal to lynch him today.

Basically, if Vino and Porkens don't vote HV Porkens gets lynched. Hopefully Porkens will check in, which makes it kind of up to you Vino.

[Porkens]

unvote; vote: HV

[jammer]

Actually, let me rethink this. I feel like being tunneled on Porkens to much this day. Exspecially after looking at HV and Ein a little now.
I'd be posting something more on that topic. After reading them in iso, later this day.

unvote

[Vino]

Honcho is right and I would much prefer just about anybody but Porkins get lynched today. Not that I don't think he still may be scum, but that I'm not willing to take the chance that he is a cop. If there is a doc he is the second least person I want to lynch, and anybody else is good game. HV hasn't been the shiniest example of good townsmanship and I don't have time to do a re-read, argue with you guys, and then vote someone, so I'll just skip to voting someone. Sorry Van Man.

Vote: Hurleys_Van