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[TDC]

[Ren Hoek]

@Ren, examples? I think I have been straightforward enough with my views.

I can't give examples. One has to look at your posts in isolation, or in context. I cannot give an example that explains that you are circumspect and overly cautious. One has to read your posts and FEEL it.

[Ren Hoek]

vote: Bulletproof

[SensFan]

First things first, TDC/Budja.

Use your QT way more.
Seriously, its such an invaluable tool, don't waste it!

[Yosarian2]

We haven't really used ours either.

If there was anything I specficially wanted to question goat about, I would do it in thread here and get reactions from other people as well.

[scotmany12]

did you note the posts where I explicitly stated that I did not Sens lynched? I didn't, and I still don't. His play has been sloppy, and he has been making sub-optimal posts regardless of what his alignment is. I fail to see a scum-motivation for his sloppiness, and RL drama seems like a good explanation. I see him as a relatively un-invested townie popping in and typing some words, and not thinking carefully enough about the game: mislynch material.

Being sloppy is not exclusive to town. Whether or not you think he has been sloppy, he has been scummy. Why you continue to deny this I do not know. And FL was way more of mislynch material than Sens will ever be in this game. That did not stop you.

more importantly, why would he post

I was the first person to go after FL.

Except you entirely dropped it until Adel brought it up again

First of all, I don't recall dropping it in here.
Secondly, and Adel can vouch for me here, I haven't dropped it at all in our QT.

as scum when our QT thread show no such thing:
...
I can see a bored Sens-town who got himself into trouble by just going through the motions doing such a thing, but I expect Sens-scum wouldn't. He has played in two games with me, and I abused him and violently lynched him in both of those game. He wouldn't give me fodder to lynch him with -- he would be much more careful.

Once again, his sloppiness is not exclusive to being town. If he is having RL issues, then that doesn't automatically make him town. As for why he would post that, maybe he truly believed you would, and maybe he truly believed he was being consistent with his attack on FL. Just because you would expect him to be more careful as scum does not excuse his scummy play.

Also, Adel, both you and Sens agreed in your QT that Ren should be the lynch today. What made you change your mind?

@scot, I did say it wasn't scummy enough for a lynch. I still saw FL as less scummy than Ren or Sens, but still a good lynch because of Adel's plan.

Fair enough. I misread your post wrong and thought you said you thought FL was scum.

@Ren, examples? I think I have been straightforward enough with my views.

I can't give examples. One has to look at your posts in isolation, or in context. I cannot give an example that explains that you are circumspect and overly cautious. One has to read your posts and FEEL it.

Actually you can. Show us why you believe budja to have been circumspect and overly cautious.

@CKD, I don't know how you can look at Sen's little tirade and call it a town tell. If anything it is a slight scum tell due to him dismissing our attacks on him as trying to piss him off.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD, I don't know how you can look at Sen's little tirade and call it a town tell. If anything it is a slight scum tell due to him dismissing our attacks on him as trying to piss him off.

I dont think he could pull that off. I have been in his shoes (perhaps that is "appeals to emotion"). I have seen others pull that shit, but his seem geniune. I havent written him off completely, but for now not seeing it.

also, that is another reason I am checking on Adel's links. has he done it before (especially in the scum game)?

[OhGodMyLife]

why is figuring out the mechanics in play anti-town? with 14 living players, and most of them not having an especially solid grasp of the mechanics, I thought that was where my talents would best be directed.

I didn't actually imply that the act of figuring out the mechanics was anti-town, so this response seems vaguely like a straw-man. The crux of my problem with you at that point was your overall lack of player analysis in favor of neutral game mechanic analysis, something your response here fails to address. Its not that what you

were

doing was anti-town, its that what you

weren't

doing is scummy.

...I was trying to get some traction on him. I suspected that he was scum attempting to undermine my plan, or figure out what his team's reaction should be to it.

This doesn't really tackle the issue that your questions were extremely leading. It explains why you asked him anything on the subject in the first place, but does not explain what I actually found scummy about the questions. Again you seem to be dodging the main points I've brought up in favor of answering something related but easier to explain.

and it did get vollkan posting.

The fact that this apparently did get Voll posting does not excuse the fact that a lurkerhunt or even a lurkerprod-vote was not really appropriate at the time, and seemed to have functioned simply to allow you to ignore the major game movements happening at the time.

I think it is one of the stronger anti-Ren posts in this game, and I think it is interesting that you focused on the irony. Chainsaw defense, I think.

My comment wasn't really even concerned with the anti-Ren portion of the post. You've ignored (again) the actual point about what was scummy and responded to something only tangentially related. You said you didn't want to be a pathfinder for a mislynch. You later got in the driver's seat and super-aggressively forced a mislynch of FL through.
Accusations of a chainsaw-defense of Ren would only concern me if there was even a slight possibility of Ren being scum. After learning that scot (who was not on the Ren wagon) was the true target for yesterday's scumkill, we know that had the scumkill succeeded, Ren would have been autolynched. Therefore the safe assumption is that Ren is town. Trying to make me look scummy for "chainsaw defense" of Ren is therefore a moot point.

My theory was, and is, that because she has had serious RL drama with TSQ, and figured out that TSQ=Ren, she replaced out.

Thats a sad story. So why didn't you say it then? Why did you leave an open-ended question obviously intended to be filled in with the best scummy reason to drop a game a player could imagine?

have you ever played with TSQ? Do you doubt that Ren is an alt? If Ren is TSQ will that help you determine Ren's alignment?

I have played with TSQ. I don't doubt Ren is an alt. I am confident Ren is not TSQ. I understand Ren's positions in this game, that was enough for me to conclude that Ren is town from early on. Ren is also now essentially cleared through coordinated night actions and the status of his bandwagon at the time of the Sera kill, so any further investigation into Ren's main identity becomes even more of a waste of time.

why? The same though occurred to me. I really didn't think that the scum would've targeted scot, for fear of the busdriver, and I was trying to figure out why Serapham was targeted by scum, and saving Ren's bacon seemed like a plausible cause.

Yos never even brought up the possibility of Sera being involved in busdriver targets, that I can recall. He simply tried to argue that Sera was the intended target and therefore Ren should be lynched. It was a scummy position to take, made moreso by the busdriver reveal confirming Ren.

how does Ren's reaction make him honest? More importantly, how do you equate Ren's corruption of the signal:noise ratio in this thread with a likely-town alignment?

1) Ren's reaction was the same as my initial reaction to scot's early post. Ren perhaps responded more strongly than I would have, but I completely understood the train of logic.
2) You are completely overblowing this whole "signal/noise" thing in regards to Ren. I think very little of Ren's posting has been noise. You seem to be grasping at any straw you can to keep Ren as a potential lynch.

It seemed to me that Ren was scum, and Sens was taking heat as an alternative to a Ren-scum lynch.

At that point, the idea of a Ren lynch was much more in favor, and the two Sens votes were the minority voice fighting hard to make headway. Again, now that we have mechanical confirmation that Ren is town, this is even more telling.

did you note the posts where I explicitly stated that I did not Sens lynched? I didn't, and I still don't. His play has been sloppy, and he has been making sub-optimal posts regardless of what his alignment is. I fail to see a scum-motivation for his sloppiness, and RL drama seems like a good explanation. I see him as a relatively un-invested townie popping in and typing some words, and not thinking carefully enough about the game: mislynch material.

Saving someone you have a "sloppy townie" read on by driving a quicklynch on another (town) player seems... sub-optimal to say the least.

which post number should FL-scum have swapped scot out by? At which post number should we have concluded that FL was town?

Post 522

why is my name in parenthesis?

I'm still unsure about the likelihood of you and Sens being scumpartners. I'm virtually positive one of you is scum. After this post, it seems much more likely that you're the scum.

my stated reason for the gambit was "to see what your response time was, and if anyone else would follow my vote" -- I wanted to poke vollkan since he was being quiet, and I am weary of lazy townies votes without thinking, especially during day 1 -- it makes later voting analysis much harder.

If I wanted to start a lurker hunt, I would've picked a legitimate lurker.

This still ignores my main point - addressing lurkers at all is simply a way to ignore the real meat of the discussion going on around you.

----

Adel's failure to grasp that Ren is now p much confirmed is a major red flag. She's been 100% on top of every other mechanical nuance in this game, yet ignores this one and continues pushing the "whose alt are you" and "signal/noise ratio" non-arguments against him.

Adel's spectacularly over-the-top defense of Sens makes sense only if she truly knows his alignment. If she's scum and he's scum, the reasons are obvious. If she's scum and he's town (which is where I'm now beginning to lean) then it scores her some easy points and could mean a trusting, uninvested townie buddy who she can communicate secretly with for the duration of the game and very probably direct.

Adel's indirect answers to almost all of the points I raised regarding her is very, very strawman.

[OhGodMyLife]

Anyway, the OGML post:

As always, OGML think's I'm scum, hah.

Anyway, he is right that one of my arguments against Ren, the one based on the kill, is no longer valid now that we know the scum tried to kill Scot, and hadn't actually intended to kill Serephem.

And no, I wasn't assuming that the scum was bus driven to Serephem. I was assuming that the scum didn't want to kill a creative team member because of the risk of PGO, they didn't want to kill scot because of the risk of bus driving, so they just targeted someone else, perhaps hoping to get bus driven back to scot if they got lucky. If that had been the scum motivation, then they certanly could just as easily have killed someone on the ren wagon as someone off of it.

Of course, we now know that I (and everyone else) was wrong about what happened, but I hardly see how that makes me scum.

Harping on this position for so long, and as far as I can tell spending a large stretch of the game not commenting on much of anything else, was a scummy position to take. Ignoring even the possibility that the Sera kill was the result of the kill being busdriven in constructing your argument against Ren was scummy. Trying to get Ren lynched at all was scummy.

Unlike most of my scum reads on you, this one isn't based on gut

Though I also have a gut feeling that this:

We haven't really used ours either.

If there was anything I specficially wanted to question goat about, I would do it in thread here and get reactions from other people as well.

Is scummy too. I think Yos, as town, would have made much better use of the private communication tool. Especially now that Goat is virtually confirmed, it seems like being able to communicate privately with him is exceptionally powerful. Not doing so makes it seem like he doesn't want to slip up there.

[TDC]

OGML: How is GR "virtually confirmed town"?

[OhGodMyLife]

OGML: How is GR "virtually confirmed town"?

His coming forward with his busdriver actions confirmed two other players, one of which is the most powerful role left in the game, and blew the shit out of the chances for a viable Ren lynch. This is not something scum would do.

[TDC]

Well, but it's not as if he had a choice whether he should claim or not.
So what would you've expected scum-GR to claim to have done?

[OhGodMyLife]

Scum GR would not have busdriven scot to sera. Scum GR would have told his scumteam scot about the busdrive, and they would have killed a more appropriate target than Sera.

[TDC]

Well, okay. I just don't think he's as confirmed as scot is.

Scot scum, gr town would require risky scum play, hence very unlikely.
Scot town, gr scum would require suboptimal scum play, hence unlikely.
Scot scum, gr scum would require short-sighted scum play, hence unlikely.

[scotmany12]

@CKD, I don't know how you can look at Sen's little tirade and call it a town tell. If anything it is a slight scum tell due to him dismissing our attacks on him as trying to piss him off.

I dont think he could pull that off. I have been in his shoes (perhaps that is "appeals to emotion"). I have seen others pull that shit, but his seem geniune. I havent written him off completely, but for now not seeing it.

also, that is another reason I am checking on Adel's links. has he done it before (especially in the scum game)?

It doesn't seem genuine to me. What I'm seeing is someone who didn't want to respond at all to our points against him and tried to write them off as us trying to piss him off. That's not a town reaction at all. I have not seen him do this anywhere else, then again this is only my second game with him.

[curiouskarmadog]

two points,

I have played with a TSQ alt before....he spammed the thread with the word "fuck" until he was replaced or mod killed (dont recall)..I have also played with TSQ...whose play was good....

It is my opinion that Sens isnt the best player in the world. this isnt an insult, just my opinion..I have not been in a game where he has contributed ANYTHING so when you say "That's not a town reaction at all" I tend to agree with you because I dont feel he is a protown player. I think I have only played with him as town.

when I get the time, I want to look at these games Adel posted. both adel and Sens are painting a picture of a better Sens player....I actually would like to see what that looks like...for two reasons...i am curious...and Adel is partially using it to clear him.

[Ren Hoek]

I'd appreciate if someone took a look a Budja, and report on whether they get the same icky feeling I do. Maybe it's my imagination. If it is, I'd like to know. I need a second opinion.

I'm not against an Adel or a Yosarian lynch, however, Budja does seem to be actively trying not to ping anyone's scumdar. In another game, I'd suspect he's a doctor or scum. In this game, only one of these is possible.

[Budja]

I do try to be careful with my posting in any game Ren - editing and sometimes rewording my posts.

I don't agree with the arguments against Yosarian. His posts have almost always reflected my views.

I have seen no great reason to talk to TDC in the quicktopic as I am entirely uncertain of his role and see no reason to share information only with him when I could talk in the open.

Scum goat could easily have driven scot to seraphim and then have the mafia kill seraphim taking out scot. I see goat as likely to be town.

I would agree that Ren is largely cleared by the busdrive. However, before the bus was revealed Ren was not cleared and Goats post about Ren been cleared only makes sense with this extra knowledge.

I don't believe I have ever played with Sens before but his play still strikes me as scummy in this game and a meta argument doesn't convince me otherwise.

I agree that an Adel/Sens scumteam is highly unlikely.

Sorry about the disjointedness of this post. Its basically the current flow of my thoughts while reading this.

[Yosarian2]

Harping on this position for so long, and as far as I can tell spending a large stretch of the game not commenting on much of anything else, was a scummy position to take.

I'm pretty sure I've "commented" on more then almost anyone else in the game, with the possible exception of Adel.

Ignoring even the possibility that the Sera kill was the result of the kill being busdriven in constructing your argument against Ren was scummy. Trying to get Ren lynched at all was scummy.

Oh, please.

You attack me for "ignoring the possibility" when no one else mentioned it either? Also, that was never my main reason for attacking Ren, and I specifically said that the kill thing wasn't conclusive, just that it was another point against him.

Your last sentance, . Ren was scummy looking. He overreached trying to lynch Scot, and then he over-reacted to mild pressure. I'm still not convinced he's town now, for that matter; the attempt to kill scot when it could have resulted in a ren lynch is a point in his favor, to be sure, but he's certanly not "confirmed".

Is scummy too. I think Yos, as town, would have made much better use of the private communication tool.

How so?

If I had something specific I wanted to talk about with goat, or ask goat, and didn't want to do it in thread, then I would. It hasn't come up. In a setup like this, when nearly all information is public, I'm not sure it will.

[vollkan]

Vote: Bulletproof

not played up to his level, and I take a lack of investment as a town tell for him.

Have you ever said this to him before? You raised met against him previously, so presumably this has come up as an issue before.

I can see a bored Sens-town who got himself into trouble by just going through the motions doing such a thing, but I expect Sens-scum wouldn't. He has played in two games with me, and I abused him and violently lynched him in both of those game. He wouldn't give me fodder to lynch him with -- he would be much more careful.

Was "Sens scum tends to be careful" (or something like that) part of your met?

I didn't actually imply that the act of figuring out the mechanics was anti-town, so this response seems vaguely like a straw-man. The crux of my problem with you at that point was your overall lack of player analysis in favor of neutral game mechanic analysis, something your response here fails to address. Its not that what you were doing was anti-town, its that what you weren't doing is scummy.

Agreed.

His coming forward with his busdriver actions confirmed two other players, one of which is the most powerful role left in the game, and blew the shit out of the chances for a viable Ren lynch. This is not something scum would do.

Maybe I missing something, but how did it "blow the shit out" of the chance for a Ren lynch?

I'd appreciate if someone took a look a Budja, and report on whether they get the same icky feeling I do. Maybe it's my imagination. If it is, I'd like to know. I need a second opinion.

I'll do a pbpa

[scotmany12]

Maybe I missing something, but how did it "blow the shit out" of the chance for a Ren lynch?

Ren is pretty close to being confirmed considering that the scum tried to kill me (if goat is telling the truth). Had the scum killed me, Ren would have been lynched since I was not voting for Ren. Thus scum would basically be killing me and losing one of their members at the same time.

[vollkan]

Maybe I missing something, but how did it "blow the shit out" of the chance for a Ren lynch?

Ren is pretty close to being confirmed considering that the scum tried to kill me (if goat is telling the truth). Had the scum killed me, Ren would have been lynched since I was not voting for Ren. Thus scum would basically be killing me and losing one of their members at the same time.

Ah, of course. I feel stupid for not seeing that.

[Adel]

only have a min, so I'll respond just to what I see right here:

not played up to his level, and I take a lack of investment as a town tell for him.

Have you ever said this to him before? You raised met against him previously, so presumably this has come up as an issue before.

I can see a bored Sens-town who got himself into trouble by just going through the motions doing such a thing, but I expect Sens-scum wouldn't. He has played in two games with me, and I abused him and violently lynched him in both of those game. He wouldn't give me fodder to lynch him with -- he would be much more careful.

Was "Sens scum tends to be careful" (or something like that) part of your met?

no I haven't said that about him before, I've never been town when I thought he was town.
Sens-scum isn't careful exactly, I'd say ballsy gambits and hubris are typical from what I saw, but he isn't sloppy.

did you note the posts where I explicitly stated that I did not Sens lynched? I didn't, and I still don't. His play has been sloppy, and he has been making sub-optimal posts regardless of what his alignment is. I fail to see a scum-motivation for his sloppiness, and RL drama seems like a good explanation. I see him as a relatively un-invested townie popping in and typing some words, and not thinking carefully enough about the game: mislynch material.

Being sloppy is not exclusive to town. Whether or not you think he has been sloppy, he has been scummy. Why you continue to deny this I do not know. And FL was way more of mislynch material than Sens will ever be in this game. That did not stop you.

more importantly, why would he post

I was the first person to go after FL.

Except you entirely dropped it until Adel brought it up again

First of all, I don't recall dropping it in here.
Secondly, and Adel can vouch for me here, I haven't dropped it at all in our QT.

as scum when our QT thread show no such thing:
...
I can see a bored Sens-town who got himself into trouble by just going through the motions doing such a thing, but I expect Sens-scum wouldn't. He has played in two games with me, and I abused him and violently lynched him in both of those game. He wouldn't give me fodder to lynch him with -- he would be much more careful.

Once again, his sloppiness is not exclusive to being town. If he is having RL issues, then that doesn't automatically make him town. As for why he would post that, maybe he truly believed you would, and maybe he truly believed he was being consistent with his attack on FL. Just because you would expect him to be more careful as scum does not excuse his scummy play.

Also, Adel, both you and Sens agreed in your QT that Ren should be the lynch today. What made you change your mind?

you being the target of the scum kill.

Maybe I missing something, but how did it "blow the shit out" of the chance for a Ren lynch?

Ren is pretty close to being confirmed considering that the scum tried to kill me (if goat is telling the truth). Had the scum killed me, Ren would have been lynched since I was not voting for Ren. Thus scum would basically be killing me and losing one of their members at the same time.

I basically agree, but GR-scum would be the major exception.

[Adel]

why is figuring out the mechanics in play anti-town? with 14 living players, and most of them not having an especially solid grasp of the mechanics, I thought that was where my talents would best be directed.

I didn't actually imply that the act of figuring out the mechanics was anti-town, so this response seems vaguely like a straw-man. The crux of my problem with you at that point was your overall lack of player analysis in favor of neutral game mechanic analysis, something your response here fails to address. Its not that what you

were

doing was anti-town, its that what you

weren't

doing is scummy.

and what exactly was I not doing? Analyzing other players. Please. Read my damn posts. I've devoted a majority of words to theory and mechanics, but the minority that is opinion and players analysis is still far more than the median contribution of players in this game.

...I was trying to get some traction on him. I suspected that he was scum attempting to undermine my plan, or figure out what his team's reaction should be to it.

This doesn't really tackle the issue that your questions were extremely leading. It explains why you asked him anything on the subject in the first place, but does not explain what I actually found scummy about the questions. Again you seem to be dodging the main points I've brought up in favor of answering something related but easier to explain.

why was I asking him leading quations? to get some traction on him.

and it did get vollkan posting.

The fact that this apparently did get Voll posting does not excuse the fact that a lurkerhunt or even a lurkerprod-vote was not really appropriate at the time, and seemed to have functioned simply to allow you to ignore the major game movements happening at the time.

yep, you got me, I'm lurking in plain sight, & evading chances to get involved with this game. Bravo to you skill!

I think it is one of the stronger anti-Ren posts in this game, and I think it is interesting that you focused on the irony. Chainsaw defense, I think.

My comment wasn't really even concerned with the anti-Ren portion of the post. You've ignored (again) the actual point about what was scummy and responded to something only tangentially related. You said you didn't want to be a pathfinder for a mislynch. You later got in the driver's seat and super-aggressively forced a mislynch of FL through.

Things changed, and I decided that a lynch of FL was of paramount importance.

Accusations of a chainsaw-defense of Ren would only concern me if there was even a slight possibility of Ren being scum. After learning that scot (who was not on the Ren wagon) was the true target for yesterday's scumkill, we know that had the scumkill succeeded, Ren would have been autolynched. Therefore the safe assumption is that Ren is town. Trying to make me look scummy for "chainsaw defense" of Ren is therefore a moot point.

Ren+GR scum pair is the huge exception. Right now I think it is a low chance of being true, but I don't think it is a good idea to forget it. I'm still having trouble accepting that Ren is probably town. My intuition continues to scream at me that he is scum.

My theory was, and is, that because she has had serious RL drama with TSQ, and figured out that TSQ=Ren, she replaced out.

Thats a sad story. So why didn't you say it then? Why did you leave an open-ended question obviously intended to be filled in with the best scummy reason to drop a game a player could imagine?

I was trying to establish if he was tsq or not. That is what I was focused upon.

have you ever played with TSQ? Do you doubt that Ren is an alt? If Ren is TSQ will that help you determine Ren's alignment?

I have played with TSQ. I don't doubt Ren is an alt. I am confident Ren is not TSQ.

why isn't he tsq?

I understand Ren's positions in this game, that was enough for me to conclude that Ren is town from early on.

please explain this to me, because I reached exactly the opposite conclusion.

Ren is also now essentially cleared through coordinated night actions and the status of his bandwagon at the time of the Sera kill, so any further investigation into Ren's main identity becomes even more of a waste of time.

if you know whose alt he is please just tell me so that I will stop wasting brain cycles trying to figure it out.

why? The same though occurred to me. I really didn't think that the scum would've targeted scot, for fear of the busdriver, and I was trying to figure out why Serapham was targeted by scum, and saving Ren's bacon seemed like a plausible cause.

Yos never even brought up the possibility of Sera being involved in busdriver targets, that I can recall. He simply tried to argue that Sera was the intended target and therefore Ren should be lynched. It was a scummy position to take, made moreso by the busdriver reveal confirming Ren.

why is it scummy? scum killing a person on ren's wagon instead someone off of it totally killed ren's wagon. It seems like an ideal way to stop the wagon momentum to me.

how does Ren's reaction make him honest? More importantly, how do you equate Ren's corruption of the signal:noise ratio in this thread with a likely-town alignment?

1) Ren's reaction was the same as my initial reaction to scot's early post. Ren perhaps responded more strongly than I would have, but I completely understood the train of logic.
2) You are completely overblowing this whole "signal/noise" thing in regards to Ren. I think very little of Ren's posting has been noise. You seem to be grasping at any straw you can to keep Ren as a potential lynch.

he self voted, and then made spammy post after spammy post, almost none of which make sense to me from a generic townie playstyle p.o.v.

It seemed to me that Ren was scum, and Sens was taking heat as an alternative to a Ren-scum lynch.

At that point, the idea of a Ren lynch was much more in favor, and the two Sens votes were the minority voice fighting hard to make headway. Again, now that we have mechanical confirmation that Ren is town, this is even more telling.

I'm not trusting that mechanical information on Ren, to the extent that I'm even double guessing how confirmed GR is.
As for the Sens wagon, I could tell how the momemtum was shifting, and that Sens was going to be the lynch for the day.

did you note the posts where I explicitly stated that I did not Sens lynched? I didn't, and I still don't. His play has been sloppy, and he has been making sub-optimal posts regardless of what his alignment is. I fail to see a scum-motivation for his sloppiness, and RL drama seems like a good explanation. I see him as a relatively un-invested townie popping in and typing some words, and not thinking carefully enough about the game: mislynch material.

Saving someone you have a "sloppy townie" read on by driving a quicklynch on another (town) player seems... sub-optimal to say the least.

There was a good tactical reason to lynch FL, and I was transparent about everything!

which post number should FL-scum have swapped scot out by? At which post number should we have concluded that FL was town?

Post 522

GTFO with 522. It was far from clear that FL would actually be lynched at that point, and he only had two votes at the time. What scum have you ever seen out himself with only two votes in such a dramatic fashion?

why is my name in parenthesis?

I'm still unsure about the likelihood of you and Sens being scumpartners. I'm virtually positive one of you is scum. After this post, it seems much more likely that you're the scum.

I look forward to seeing your case against me

my stated reason for the gambit was "to see what your response time was, and if anyone else would follow my vote" -- I wanted to poke vollkan since he was being quiet, and I am weary of lazy townies votes without thinking, especially during day 1 -- it makes later voting analysis much harder.

If I wanted to start a lurker hunt, I would've picked a legitimate lurker.

This still ignores my main point - addressing lurkers at all is simply a way to ignore the real meat of the discussion going on around you.

what was this "meat" at the time that I was ignoring?

----

Adel's failure to grasp that Ren is now p much confirmed is a major red flag. She's been 100% on top of every other mechanical nuance in this game, yet ignores this one and continues pushing the "whose alt are you" and "signal/noise ratio" non-arguments against him.

I've been flipflopping on what I think his alignment is. It seems to me that his play has been scummy, and too many assumption are necessary for him to be confirmed town.

Adel's spectacularly over-the-top defense of Sens makes sense only if she truly knows his alignment. If she's scum and he's scum, the reasons are obvious. If she's scum and he's town (which is where I'm now beginning to lean) then it scores her some easy points and could mean a trusting, uninvested townie buddy who she can communicate secretly with for the duration of the game and very probably direct.

I tried to direct him to vote for FL, but he didn't.
I get players who I think are scum lynched, and I try to keep players who I think are town alive. I think Sens is town, and I've explained why.

Adel's indirect answers to almost all of the points I raised regarding her is very, very strawman.

If other players think I am being intentionally evasive, please let me know. Sometimes I don't read the question the way the writer intends, and I think it is rather more useful to the town to rephrase a question or at least restate it if my first response isn't adequate.

~~
Is it typical of OGML-town to jump to conclusions like this?

fuck, that took far too long.

[Adel]

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