The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Stephoscope]

Naomi could be scum and amished be town.

This is not possible, as Naomi is Trilby. There is a chance the vice-versa is true, but I think it's a very small chance.

[Pyromaniac]

Naomi could be scum and amished be town.

This is not possible, as Naomi is Trilby. There is a chance the vice-versa is true, but I think it's a very small chance.

There is definitely a chance that naomi is scum and amished is town.

[dramonic]

That requires Stepho to be scum, obviously he won't agree with you Pyro

[Stephoscope]

Setting aside the fact that I am 100% sure that I am Janine and Naomi is Trilby, I must point out that it's ridiculous to think there'd be no Trilby counterclaim, given that Naomi's roleclaim was so bad and that Amished can apparently protect, and it's ridiculous to think that there'd be a Chzo game without Trilby. Naomi is Trilby, and if we need to lynch her to avoid a Setael lynch then so be it, but it should really be clear that she is absolutely Trilby.

[Pyromaniac]

It is absolutely clear that none of you are clear.

[ZazieR]

Naomi could be scum and amished be town.

Very unlikely. If Naomi is scum, it means that there is no town-Trilby. Otherwise, that player should push for a Naomi lynch. So either, the scum are the main characters from the games or there are no main characters present. Both show that Amished is scum if Naomi is scum.

[ZazieR]

I'm of the opinion that Stephoscope and Setael are the same alignment.

Then lynch Naomi. If Naomi turns up scum, Stepho is scum. If Naomi is town, Stepho is very likely town.
We can confirm his allignment and keep him alive by lynching Naomi in case his claim is true.

[ZazieR]

If we let him investigate and then lynch him, nothing is forced. It's simply confirmed at that point.

Why are players proposing to lynch Stepho after he has given his results on Setael, when a lynch on Naomi can give us the same information as well?

[ZazieR]

It is absolutely clear that none of you are clear.

This. So support a Naomi lynch to find out what their allignments are.

[ZazieR]

@Everyone

Please state if you agree or not that the following rules show that there are only Innocents:

3. Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

The win cons are stated here. The mod has chosen to word it that Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. If there are town powerroles, then why would he have used Innocents and not Town or something like that?

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the town/innocents. You may be required to actually think, instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here* Get used to it.

This rule says 'town/innocents'. To me, this seems that the town=innocents.


So if you disagree, say no. If you agree, say yes.
Only the claimed powerroles must state their reasons for their answers. After that, I want to hear it from the other players.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Lamont - what makes you think I'm a good fake claimer? I don't think there is evidence for that in my meta actually.

Well, I'm holding to the theory that you are an eperienced player that would know & understand the effect of a claim on people.

In other words, you know that if you claim that the town will LOSE if you die, enough people will be scared into believing you, thus allowing you to live.

Its clear you are all focused on having doc protection and how Amished is going to run out of protections and how because of your claim the town has to let you live.

I call horseshit.

You need to be lynched. If for some reason beyond belief you are not lynched you need to be investigated but it would be better that you were lynched and Zaze investigated imo.

[Stephoscope]

@Everyone

Please state if you agree or not that the following rules show that there are only Innocents:

3. Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

The win cons are stated here. The mod has chosen to word it that Innocents win if they destroy all Evil characters. If there are town powerroles, then why would he have used Innocents and not Town or something like that?

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the town/innocents. You may be required to actually think, instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here* Get used to it.

This rule says 'town/innocents'. To me, this seems that the town=innocents.


So if you disagree, say no. If you agree, say yes.
Only the claimed powerroles must state their reasons for their answers. After that, I want to hear it from the other players.

Obviously, my main reason for disagreeing is because I have a named town power role.

But I also think there's some inconsistency, whether intentional or unintentional, in the way that the rules and the roles have been set up, and I think it should be nearly impossible for everyone to believe that there are no named town power roles, as that would take away so much opportunity for flavor in this themed game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't think even Zaze actually believes there are no power roles. I think she's actively trying to ferret them out.

[ZazieR]

I don't think even Zaze actually believes there are no power roles. I think she's actively trying to ferret them out.

Wrong.

[Amished]

Zaze: You're clearly creating a false dilemma. Have you seen any other theme games that had both town power roles and perhaps a safe claim for the scum? Almost every theme game has that. Naomi's alignment IN NO WAY proves my alignment/role. The only way that works is if Steph turns town then Naomi is proven innocent. Yes, also if Naomi is scum, then steph was obviously lying, and he's proven guilty. However, there's no correlation between them and me. Quit trying to setup a chain of mislynches of town power roles.

[ZazieR]

That's not stating. why you disagree with my explanations given by the two rules.

[Amished]

Can innocent also be an overarching theme for all pro-town (like, well, pro-town in a normal mafia game)? Yes. You know why I ask that? It's because I win when threats to the humans have been destroyed. So far, the humans seem to be all innocent, as the only "scum" that's dead has been a spirit. By your own explanation, town = innocents, so substituting that into 3: Town wins if they destroy all Evil characters. Seems straightforward enough and says nothing about there being power roles or not.

[ZazieR]

Amished, you have claimed to be some guy from the game. Your role is that guy. My role is an Innocent. You are not an Innocent.

[ZazieR]

In response to the first paragraph of post 3003:

For more flavor (while trying to avoid being modkilled): From going through the games, I always thought of my character as the gatekeeper, and I'm pretty sure they referred to me as that at one time. In my PM it does say Caretaker, but does say I'm Jonathan. I'm a prisoner of fate, yadda yadda yadda;

delivered myself the blade to kill myself to become a spirit

both directed by fate and to ensure that fate continues the way it's supposed to. Say's that because of killing myself I've become almost as powerful as the mastermind to open the bridge between worlds (Chzo). Goes into explanation how that the prisoner of fate translates into me being a doctor and saving people that need to be saved and all.

As for the rest of the first paragraph, you used it to try and confirm Stepho. Now that I have proved that this isn''t the case, it becomes invalid. Which isn''t the case. Why would the mod state when Innocents win if there are town powerroles? And why would he use town/innocents in rule 13 if there are town pwerroles.
He wouldn''t. Which shows there aren''t any to me.

BTW: How does Naomi potentially flipping scum tie to me? If she's scum, of course stepho is, but I don't have an investigation. Because they were scum doesn't have a bearing on my own. I see that as a feeble attempt to chain lynches without the proper logic to back it up (like hohum was talking about steph -> Naomi, but even then we'd have to look at it from a normal scumhunting perspective as Stepho could have hypothetically been telling the truth on Naomi's role.

See rules 3 and 13. It says Innocents. If one of the three is lying, all of you are.

@Zaz: Why do you feel it relevant to divulge how many protections I have in a night?

Not in

a

night. I asked for how many ''protections'' you used N1. For the information it will give.

@Lamont: Yes, the claim is unconfirmed. However, since you openly stated that you think Zaz is scum (which I agree with), we can lynch her, keep an unsupported claim til tomorrow with an investigation on Setael, then in an attempt to confirm all of Steph's investigations we can lynch him and see where Set stands at that point. Isn't that a better course of action than to lynch somebody that might have a key to a win condition?

Bad posting. Why lynch Stepho when a Naomi lynch will confirm Stepho if she turns up town?

And this, Amished.

[ZazieR]

Mod - Did Naomi pick up her prod?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod did Naomi pick up her doll?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Naomi has roughly 4 hours left on her prod before I replace her.

[populartajo]

I really dont think Zazier is scum. I think I can understand some of her points, even if I disagree with some of them. The fact that she is going behind the three claimed power roles also leans to her being inquisitive town rather than scum trying to lynch power roles, something that its obvious a polemic idea to push.

Zazie, do you think all the three power roles are scum? If not, who and why?

[ZazieR]

All 3. The only thing that was hinting at possible powerroles was the extra day Hohum/Elmo received. But as it didn't happen last night, while Amished claims that he targeted Elmo, this makes it very unlikely.
Other than that are the rules which to me seem to show that there are no powerroles (Do you agree with that or not btw Tajo?) and each claimed powerrole has said something that doesn't add up to their claims.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Look, were being mod-mind-screwed. The claims aren't going to make sense. Amished's is proven & Stepho-Naomi's are linked.

Something just occurred to me. Naomi is no longer a PR right? I mean she said she has no other powers than being non-NK right?

So if she can prove Stepho's claim that would be like awesome right?

Is there anything I'm missing here? (I don't care about all this role PM crap and obscure rule interpretation crap)