Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Vi]

(procrastinates)

:\

Somewhat similar to what I'm doing. I'll try to make headway in my reread tonight v.v

This post contains 25 words.

[Zorblag]

Hmm, we no seem to be doing all that much. The deadline be next Tuesday, July 28th so we should be having what discussion we want to now so that it no be rushed and all can participate.

Troll has a couple questions:

BridgesAndBaloons, Troll asked a few posts ago but it might get lost in the middle. Why is it that you be so sure that Elmo be town at this time?

Ectomancer, what do you think of Troll's responses to your stated reasons for suspecting Troll? If your opinion be unchanged and strong enough for you to be sure that Troll be the one you will vote for what be the point in not voting for Troll now? Troll supposes that Troll can see thinking someone might reveal more when under the pressure of a vote but Troll no sees why you think unvoting will make Troll talk more.

Elmo, it feels like you have been saying that you need to re-read/get caught up since at least the middle of day three. Does there be a reason that this no has happened beyond simple procrastination? Do you think that helps the town's chances of winning?

Vi, you also said you had a re-read to do over the weekend to look at a few things. Did anything come of that?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Ectomancer]

You were talking, as long as you talk, I dont mind leaving you alive. You're right though, this has stalled to no end.

vote Zorblag

Either there will be a tomorrow or there won't. Whoever is alive can figure out the partner then (and please just NK me, seriously, I'm done).

[Zorblag]

And what Troll said about your reasons for suspecting Troll did little to convince you Troll takes it?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Hmm, we no seem to be doing all that much. The deadline be next Tuesday, July 28th so we should be having what discussion we want to now so that it no be rushed and all can participate.

Troll has a couple questions:

BridgesAndBaloons, Troll asked a few posts ago but it might get lost in the middle. Why is it that you be so sure that Elmo be town at this time?

Oh yes, I'm sorry I meant to answer that.

I wish I had a definite reason why, and I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could explain to you all why in a researched and long post (similar to me on DGB), but I don't think it would affect anything.

The lynch for the day will almost certainly be you or Ecto. I know it's anti-town to say something like that, but I really don't see anyone else being lynched.

Anyway, sorry for the bridging. The reason I think Elmo is town is that I don't see hir doing the things xe did and being scum. It just doesn't fit with Adel-scum. Also, hir posts have an air of towniness.


I really don't like Ecto's "please night kill me."

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@ Troll, Vi, or Elmo:

I just want to clarify how many of you think Ecto is scum. I know at least troll does.

I would really like to see your case(s) and evaluate it against my troll case.

[Adel]

meeting Yhtill in the mountains tomorrow.

V/LA for 86 hours from this post.

[Adel]

wrong thread, sorry ;/

[Ectomancer]

And what Troll said about your reasons for suspecting Troll did little to convince you Troll takes it?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No. There were a couple things you corrected me on, (or at least altered my perception of what may have happened), but you didnt change the core of my belief. Likely the only source that could do that would be someone other than you, and with a scum partner floating around, it would probably take 2.

@BaB - I think there is going to be a tomorrow. I don't want to be obligated to keep up with it. I'm done with this game for a very long time. Good luck to town, but better luck if I'm not the one expected to figure it out.

[caf19]

Votecount

Zorblag (1): Ectomancer

Not voting

Elmo
BridgesAndBaloons
Vi
Zorblag


Also, it's only a week to deadline. As per rule 4, I won't be reducing the required majority today.

[Vi]

Vi, you also said you had a re-read to do over the weekend to look at a few things. Did anything come of that?

I'm still working on it, unfortunately. Life hasn't been at its best recently, and I'm sorry it has to affect me/everyone ITT.

It just doesn't fit with Adel-scum.

This is the most concrete reason you DON'T suspect Elmo. Elaborate

por favor

.

[Zorblag]

Ectomancer, could you give your current reasons for thinking that Troll be the most likely scum given your alter perceptions after what Troll said about your case? Troll would like to see why you be confident enough to be voting Troll at this time.

BridgesAndBaloons, Troll would like it if you could look at Elmo's play after day one and find the things that Elmo has done or said that makes him look town to you. Troll feels that him has played a fairly background game without contributing much since at least day two. Troll likes some of what Elmo did early but no has any good reasons to agree that Elmo be most likely to be town based on his recent play. Days three and four in particular feel like a clinic in stalling rather than giving input in the game. At one point Elmo posited that Troll was playing a gray man scum game. This description feels to Troll like it could be easily applied to Elmo at this time.

As for the reasons Troll suspects Ectomancer more than others, here be the major points. Troll be happy to expand on any if people like but Troll will keep this brief for now.

Ectomancer's vote on day two for springlullaby seems to have been a poor move to Troll. Ectomancer said that him suspected that Porkens and springlullaby were a scum team and never seemed to back off on that. Troll thinks that the choice of springlullaby for the lynch over Adel after Porkens's cop reveal was one that furthered a scum agenda rather than a town agenda.

Ectomancer stayed largely in the background during day three. Him gave his bussing idea and little else in terms of contribution towards finding scum. Him said that him was willing to vote for any other than BridgesAndBaloons or Lord Gurgi. Him had no hesitation at all when it came to voting for Troll when BridgesAndBaloons did so towards the end of the day. Troll never saw any reason why Troll would have been a better vote than Elmo on day three.

Ectomancer's vote for Troll at the start of day four with no initial comment and subsequent withdrawal when Troll no got other votes be an issue for Troll. Troll would expect town to be more concerned with being right about their vote in the LyLo situation that we almost certainly be in.

Ectomancer no has wavered at all this day in his suspicion of Troll. Troll be biased here as Troll knows that Troll be town but Ectomancer's desire to see more analysis for Troll feels a bit false given how little we have seen from Elmo who, so far as Troll can tell, meets the same criteria for scumminess that Ectomancer be using as his case at this time. Further, Troll finds it somewhat telling that Ectomancer be complaining about the lack of contribution from Troll when him has done so little to help find scum himself.

For Troll personally there also be the fact that Troll no has been lynched yet. Troll knows that Troll be town. If Ectomancer also be town then all the scum need to do to win be to cast the other two votes to win the game. Troll realizes that others no will find this compelling as them no know that Troll no be scum.

Basically Ectomancer has stayed in mostly the background since day one and be going for an easy mislynch now that we be in LyLo for reasons that Troll no thinks should be compelling. BridgesAndBaloons's reaction to Troll's play in this game makes Troll most likely the easiest mislynch as Troll was wrong about DrippingGoofball. Ectomancer seems to be trying to take advantage of that without contributing to the game otherwise.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Ectomancer's vote on day two for springlullaby seems to have been a poor move to Troll. Ectomancer said that him suspected that Porkens and springlullaby were a scum team and never seemed to back off on that. Troll thinks that the choice of springlullaby for the lynch over Adel after Porkens's cop reveal was one that furthered a scum agenda rather than a town agenda.

Ectomancer stayed largely in the background during day three. Him gave his bussing idea and little else in terms of contribution towards finding scum. Him said that him was willing to vote for any other than BridgesAndBaloons or Lord Gurgi. Him had no hesitation at all when it came to voting for Troll when BridgesAndBaloons did so towards the end of the day. Troll never saw any reason why Troll would have been a better vote than Elmo on day three.
[snipped]

This is a good case. I would like Ecto to respond to it, particularily the allegations of him suspecting a SL Porkens team and when he switched to thinking SL was town, and also how he came to suspect you troll so strongly.

BridgesAndBaloons's reaction to Troll's play in this game makes Troll most likely the easiest mislynch as Troll was wrong about DrippingGoofball.

It looks like you're boiling down my case on you into a simple voting you for mislynching. This misrepresentation makes me angry. My case doesn't even mention the fact that DGB was a mislynch as a point against you. The only thing that came close to that is suspecting you for your very quick hammer. Not for the

who

of the hammer.

[Zorblag]

BridgesAndBaloons's reaction to Troll's play in this game makes Troll most likely the easiest mislynch as Troll was wrong about DrippingGoofball.

It looks like you're boiling down my case on you into a simple voting you for mislynching. This misrepresentation makes me angry. My case doesn't even mention the fact that DGB was a mislynch as a point against you. The only thing that came close to that is suspecting you for your very quick hammer. Not for the

who

of the hammer.

Troll no had the particulars of BridgesAndBaloons's case in mind at all when Troll made that statement. Troll be a bit curious to see what it be in brief at this point but Troll was referring to the way that BridgesAndBaloons seemed to start thinking that Troll was scum with various degrees of strength almost as soon as him entered the game. If Troll had been right about DrippingGoofball and she had flipped scum then this no would be nearly as much of an issue now. As DrippingGoofball flipped town it makes Troll's position vulnerable. If BridgesAndBaloons be town then Troll most likely be the easiest mislynch for scum to arrange given those two things together.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Ectomancer]

Ectomancer's vote on day two for springlullaby seems to have been a poor move to Troll. Ectomancer said that him suspected that Porkens and springlullaby were a scum team and never seemed to back off on that. Troll thinks that the choice of springlullaby for the lynch over Adel after Porkens's cop reveal was one that furthered a scum agenda rather than a town agenda.

Ectomancer stayed largely in the background during day three. Him gave his bussing idea and little else in terms of contribution towards finding scum. Him said that him was willing to vote for any other than BridgesAndBaloons or Lord Gurgi. Him had no hesitation at all when it came to voting for Troll when BridgesAndBaloons did so towards the end of the day. Troll never saw any reason why Troll would have been a better vote than Elmo on day three.
[snipped]

This is a good case. I would like Ecto to respond to it, particularily the allegations of him suspecting a SL Porkens team and when he switched to thinking SL was town, and also how he came to suspect you troll so strongly.

I know you aren't daft enough to be asking why I no longer thought SL was Porkens partner after Porkens flipped cop. You could still be a GF (not town).
Troll and BaB, I already quoted at least twice (if not more) the reason I put my vote on Troll. I spent a number of posts researching and figuring things out (basically forced by Vi to do so), so don't tell me that it came out of nowhere. As for why I finally chose Troll, that was when I realized that I had explained the fingerscuffs scumAdel put scum in directly to troll. Troll saw the light and lynched Adel. Elmo is still likely your partner, but you deserve the vote more and I've more than explained to you why. I don't need to convince scum of your scumminess anyhow...

[Zorblag]

Ectomancer, Troll no was asking you to post once more the reasons that you be voting for Troll just to see them. Troll wanted to know if you were interested in giving any revisions to them based on however your perceptions might have been altered based on what you said. Apparently that no be the case. Troll gave the reasons that Troll's hammer of Adel on day two no should have been motivated by a scum fear of Adel's staying alive would hurt the scum team but your main case still seems to hinge on that.

You no will be able to convince Troll that Troll be scum, that be true. Troll knows that Troll be town. You no need to convince the scum that Troll be scum either as them know it be false but have every reason to want to lynch Troll at this time. Troll thought that you might want to try to convince the town that you still had reasons you thought were compelling for being as sure of your vote as you be and Troll was interested in trying to address them but that no seems to be the case.

If Ectomancer be town at this point then the only reason scum no have won is that them no have managed to coordinate their votes to lynch Troll. Troll thinks that be unlikely. In any case, as Ectomancer seems to be set with his vote and Troll knows that him be wrong about Troll being scum there no longer be a reason for Troll to hold back with:

Vote: Ectomancer

Troll still be working out who the most likely partner be. Right now Troll's guess be Elmo based on lack of apparent interest in figuring things out (or generally participating) in the game but Troll will how everyone reacts to this for now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Troll and BaB, I already quoted at least twice (if not more) the reason I put my vote on Troll. I spent a number of posts researching and figuring things out (basically forced by Vi to do so), so don't tell me that it came out of nowhere. As for why I finally chose Troll, that was when I realized that I had explained the fingerscuffs scumAdel put scum in directly to troll.

I wanted you to restate so I could understand better. If you're town, it's in your best interests to be understood by me.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Troll still be working out who the most likely partner be. Right now Troll's guess be Elmo based on lack of apparent interest in figuring things out (or generally participating) in the game but Troll will how everyone reacts to this for now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

but elmo is town...

[Ectomancer]

Troll and BaB, I already quoted at least twice (if not more) the reason I put my vote on Troll. I spent a number of posts researching and figuring things out (basically forced by Vi to do so), so don't tell me that it came out of nowhere. As for why I finally chose Troll, that was when I realized that I had explained the fingerscuffs scumAdel put scum in directly to troll.

I wanted you to restate so I could understand better. If you're town, it's in your best interests to be understood by me.

No, you didn't ask me to restate it, you asked me to explain what Zorblag had to say, which was that my case came out of nowhere and then YOU implied my reasonings came out of nowhere as well by saying his case had merit. I spent days chasing that tail, and every bit of reasoning for choosing that particular cat is right there for both of you to look at.
If you wanted it restated, then ask for it to be restated, but don't tell me that Zorblag has a point and when I prove that he doesn't, you start pretending as though I'm avoiding a question from you.

I see from your "Elmo is town" statement you must be one of these multitude of 1 shot cops we have had in this town. Here's my result:

Zorblag is scum, or is the rule that we only can call someone town? I don't know how many times in this game that someone without a *&^# clue has called someone else town. (Oh hello DGB). How about playing the game using logic and cases instead of this losing game of meta town reads and lynch by consensus instead of debate???

[Zorblag]

Ectomancer, Troll never said that your case came out of nowhere. Troll no be sure how you be getting that. Troll does think that the case no be compelling but that be something else entirely. Your play day three did lead up to the vote for Troll based largely on the last minute panicked bussing at the end of day two idea but having that lead up no made it a sound theory.

BridgesAndBaloons, Troll be having trouble with your certainty that Elmo be town but Troll no will push it now. Troll will again ask that you make sure you look through the reasons you have for thinking it at some point rather than simply assuming you have it right but Troll agrees that today it be almost certain that Ectomancer or Troll will be lynched and Troll would rather have you focusing on the two of us now and making the most informed decision that you can.

Mod: Can you prod Elmo?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Vi]

Okay, so life and the Internet have conspired against me this week, and I'm tired of reminding myself to get the reread going when I'm in a meeting/thunderstorm/etc. So forget that; I'm going to go about this a different way.

It's pretty much granted that Elmo and Troll (henceforth referred to as Trollmo, or Elmoll) are not both scum. That leaves the following pairings, for visual convenience.

*Ectomancer and Trollmo (one of the two)
*B&B and Trollmo
*Ectomancer and B&B

I'm not going to worry about Trollmo, and instead focus on the other two. Both of them

scream

scum to me, investigation or no. So reading the last three pages ( ), these are the questions I have.

-----

B&B: What are your reads on everyone, and (concisely) why do you have these reads? Vagueness not welcome.

What would it take for you to vote today?

Would it be an unfair argument to say that you have been trying to find reasons to suspect specific people up to this point?

Why do your best arguments only seem to come within hours of the deadline?

-----

Ectomancer: You said in 1723 that s-lully was unlikely to be the Godfather. But realize that based on the vote count and the premise that both scum are not in Trollmo that

either you or B&B must be scum

. The notion that Lord Gurgi was trying to decide which mole to hammer has been shown to be basically unfounded. If B&B is not a Godfather, this means that you are scum by PoE. Any significant objections?

You have said "there will be a tomorrow" multiple times today, even now as you are being considered one of the lynch choices. One would think that if you were lynched - and you have been repeatedly mentioned as one of the only two people getting lynched today - as a Townie the game would be over (two remaining scum, four players, etc.). Where did the qualifiers go?

You said in 1744 that much talk and analysis came from unvoting Troll. What were the pragmatic results of this talk and analysis?

In as few words as you can get it, can you summarize your reason for voting Troll?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Sorry, just got in right now. Really had a rough week, but lots of free time coming up.

@Ecto, I really have no idea how to respond. This whole post caught me totally off guard and I need to think about the meaning. Also ecto, your patronization is completely unneccesary. It's funny to me that you have the nerve to attack my methods when

I was right

. Will respond better to the rest of the post later.

@Zorblag, nice post. I'm betting Ecto is getting really frustrated now.

@Vi one answer for now: it would be a totally fair argument to say I've "been trying to find reasons to suspect

specific people

troll up to this point;" and if I wasn't me, I'd probably buy that argument; however, that idea is false.

What is true is that I got an initial early scum read of troll and I may have let these initial feelings cloud my judgment.

. . .

I just realized that a Me/Elmo partnership looks like a pretty good bet [from an outside view]. How come no one has brought this up*? Is a single innocent result really

that

confirming? Sanity and Godfatherness possibilities.

I would like Elmo to comment on the above paragraph. I don't mind if anyone else does.


*Except Vi's above post, which really doesn't count since he listed 5 different partners.

Oh yeah VI, you say two of them scream scum to you: which of the two are you talking about "Me, Ecto, and/or Elmo?"

[Ectomancer]

It's certainly not Zorblag that is frustrating here. He's playing as I would expect him to be playing.

@Vi - just because I have a hard time believing that the cop coincidentally investigated the GF N1 and was his only revealed result, doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. I simply would not have put my chips on it back then. Yes, I fully expected another day tomorrow. Troll should be lynched today. I dont know, or frankly care who his partner is right now, and

really

dont feel like making a choice, much less an actual informed re-read on it. If I'm still alive, I'll suck it up and deal with it, but there was certainly more than just my opinion indicating that troll is likely scum and at least they have their roles revealed to back them up.

[caf19]

Votecount

Zorblag (1): Ectomancer
Ectomancer (1): Zorblag

Not voting

Elmo
Vi
BridgesAndBaloons

Prodding Elmo.

[Elmo]

Yeah, I'm really not into the game at all right now, which is part real-life stuff and partly because it's Ecto+Troll and cuz of that I really don't mind which we lynch. Like, dice tags time.

Is a single innocent result really

that

confirming? Sanity and Godfatherness possibilities.

I think we're hugely underpowered with a non-sane cop and 3 scum. GF is possible, but very unlikely (1 in 9 baseline?) and you seem townish to me. As to partnership.. eh, maybe, I don't think there's a good argument against it, maybe my interactions with Spring make it a bit unlikely, but I wouldn't really rule it out. I don't really see much to point to it in light of that, though.

Vi: B&B screams scum to you? Seriously? Also, fwiw, I can't be scum with B&B, otherwise we would've hammered one of Ecto/Troll.