Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Namttam]

I'm an Emerald Townie. No magic role to save me unfortunately. I still would like to hear reasons for everyone's votes on me, please don't hammer before that. I have nothing to respond to. So that means SC, Kmd, SpyreX, Xyl, and KK. Could I get reasons for your votes? (Not so much Xyl since I already understand your reason) I think all the scum are already on my wagon so the remaining town don't hammer until we hear some reasons.

[Namttam]

And I fail at counting. I'm at L-2 not L-1.

[Kmd4390]

Nam, gut and VC analysis.

[Lowell]

Pages 51-60. I want to make sure I finish this today.

1260s- rofl and kmd agree to a death wager, rofl if mastin is town, kmd if he's scum, both vote mastin
1303- wicked reluctantly votes mastin after trying to derail [-]
1336- KK hammers mastin
1339- ckool, VP, emp (town) die night 2

Day 3
1349- hayker votes rofl for setting up kmd lynch
1351- rofl votes kmd
1369- rofl votes hayker
1380s- rofl, hayker, wicked all argue, two vs. rofl
1417- KK votes rofl for being fishy
1418- kmd votes rofl, agrees
1442- faraday votes hayker
1448- lowell votes hayker
1461- kmd votes wicked
1465- SC votes namttam for sneaking onto VP wagon [+]
1469- mole votes hayker
1483- namttam FOS SC [-, OMGUS]
1496- KK votes hayker

Thoughts on pages 51-60:
1) Much of this stretch was consumed with a running argument between rofl on one side, and hayker/wicked on the other. In light of future revelations, this makes a little more sense and doesn't look so bad.

2) People who look good:

SC

- developed a new case in 1465, which gains a bit of traction and was probably needed. This doesn't make me feel better about his early derailment of the mastin wagon.

rofl

- I see how the "death wager" between rofl and kmd could look bad for rofl (directing a kill after bussing a partner). But since its rofl I tend to think it's just playstyle and a genuine (but not certain) belief in mastin's scumminess. I find bussing unlikely, as I doubt mastin would have sat back and taken it, AND I think rofl dug deep to keep the mastin case alive. He wasn't just riding the wagon, he was driving it, so I don't think he's cerulean.

hayker

- coming out of his shell a little, especially after some votes pile on

3) People who look NOT good:

kmd

- something about him is off. His accusation that rofl is directing a kill doesn't really hold up to me. The way he then completely drops the rofl case to focus on others looks bad, like he's trying to get rofl to leave him alone and would rather fight easier targets (lowell, faraday).

namttam

- 1483 is pure and simple OMGUS. My sense is someone who would so reflexively and defensively FOS his first attacker is also someone who would relatively openly circle the wagons for a scum teammate, like on D1 with zazie.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm an Emerald Townie. No magic role to save me unfortunately. I still would like to hear reasons for everyone's votes on me, please don't hammer before that. I have nothing to respond to. So that means SC, Kmd, SpyreX, Xyl, and KK. Could I get reasons for your votes? (Not so much Xyl since I already understand your reason) I think all the scum are already on my wagon so the remaining town don't hammer until we hear some reasons.

You're not one of the people I think are town (which is pretty much the same as SpyreX's list - this gives me a good feeling about SpyreX). There is a bandwagon on you, driven largely by people I think are town. Right now I don't feel like trying to divert the bandwagon from you to Lowell. And yes, I would like to avoid being lynched today and lynch a scum instead, preferably Vermillion because that will return roflcopter to productive scumhunting.

[Xylthixlm]

Namttam has been posting a lot of words but avoiding taking strong positions on issues. I think that's the biggest reason for my gut read on him.

[Lowell]

From page 61:
1516- hayker leads with 5 votes
1517- hayker claims mason, knows partner is town
1520- xyl thinks he wants partner claim, maybe [-, seeking approval]
1527- ckd wants to know more, hayker stonewalls
1541- lowell says hayker's partner needs to claim
1544- rofl votes xyl for accusing wicked strangely [+, good point]
1550- hayker reveals his partner (wicked)
1552- mole votes lowell for rolefishing [-, stupid, masons don't matter]
1553- kmd votes namttam
1565- nam calls masonclaim "useful" for getting rid of his suspicions
1572- mole votes hayker, claims neighbor to emp, questions that there would be masons and neighbors [+]
1582- wicked confirms hayker's claim [+]
1586- wicked votes xyl
1587- SC discusses roles [-, a pointless distraction, trying to look active]
1593- lowell votes xyl
1595- ckd votes xyl
1633- mole explains his claim and the timing
1640s- rofl/xyl argue over xyl's scumminess
1658- xyl speculates lowell is mufasa's partner
1677- xyl leads with 4 votes (7 needed)
1695- lowell says he's not mufasa's neighbor
1697- xyl votes lowell
1709- Spyrex enters
1724- spy calls the 4th neighbor scum
1725- spy votes nam
1729- xyl would "put money" on lowell being mafia neighbor [-, douche-posting]
1732- spy too would put "heavy money" on things [-]
1742- nam votes xyl
1743- xyl votes nam
1745- wicked defends lowell's charges against him [meh]
1747- KK votes nam
1750- nam claims townie, no powerrole

Thoughts:

1) Regarding game setup: 4/4 scumteams would be waaay too powerful. I'm not sure why everyone sees masons/neighbors and assumes we have a super-strong town. Really? Neighbors? The scum have powerroles, we have self-confirming townies? Not exactly a battle of the titans. It's 3/3 for scum. I believe the mason claims, as well as mole's neighbor claim (and that he's town). Were he scum I think he would have exploited this earlier, right after emp ended up dead. No reason to wait until now. I agree that the fourth neighbor could be scum, but I don't particularly think it matters.

2) People who look good:

hayker, wicked, mole

- as stated, I believe the claims. Hayker and wicked in particular. I don't buy that they'd try such a crazy gambit.

3) People who look NOT good:

xyl

- His indecisiveness in 1520 is bad. His speculating on mufasa's neighbor is bad. Also, I hate posts like 1729. When people say "I'd put money on..." what I read is "I'm scum lazily going through the motions pretending to be emotionally invested in this scumhunt!" It's a cheap rhetorical device, in addition to a obvious attempt to cozy up to a new player (spyrex)

spy

- His running dialogue of catching up is horrible. In my case, I'm reading through while staring at a list of dead players and their roles. He's trying to look town by doing it "blind" and seeming like he doesn't have anything or anyone to protect.

namttam

- his vote on xyl is opportunistic, and his claim doesn't save him.

I'll hammer namttam if needed, but xyl and even spy are much better lynches. Take xyl's squirmishness and buddying and add it to fallen's insane scuminess and I'm starting to see a pattern with players in that role.

[Kmd4390]

Lowell, Rofl can suspect me all he wants. I think he is town and I'm going to continue to scumhunt. Why do you mention yourself and Farady as my targets though? I'm voting Nam and also suspect Serial.

[Lowell]

I have this feeling like a few people aren't posting:
Achilles
Lowell
curiouskarmadog
Faraday

This post is a note to myself that they're the ones to look at if I want a lurker hunt.

Lowell is probably scum. Maybe Faraday too.

This post is what I was referring to. Yes, I see that at other times you've looked at other players as well.

[Xylthixlm]

Nobody takes anything I say at face value any more...

His running dialogue of catching up is horrible. In my case, I'm reading through while staring at a list of dead players and their roles. He's trying to look town by doing it "blind" and seeming like he doesn't have anything or anyone to protect.

4) People who look REALLY bad:

wicked

I thought you were trying to look town by doing it "blind". Odd.

[Lowell]

No I was trying to give honest assesments as I saw them of LIVING players. You'll notice the already-dead don't appear in my town or scumlists. Unlike Spy, who wants us all to see how town he thinks ckool is.

[Xylthixlm]

July 20

not sure that I agree with rofl that xyl is scummy though, the only scummy thing I have seen Xyl do it follow/buddy up with rofl. going to read again.

July 21

vote xyl

, rofl was right about mastin

[Xylthixlm]

No I was trying to give honest assesments as I saw them of LIVING players. You'll notice the already-dead don't appear in my town or scumlists. Unlike Spy, who wants us all to see how town he thinks ckool is.

But you're still contradicting later information. So is SpyreX. I don't see the difference.

[roflcopter]

hey lowell, vote for xyl

[Xylthixlm]

hey roflcopter, remember War In Heaven II?

[roflcopter]

hey xyl, referring to a game where you were town doesn't make you town in this game

[Xylthixlm]

Also, answer this:

Possible, but not probable.

I'd put heavy money on if we lynched up my list the game would end before we got anywhere near Xyl.

i'd put heavy money on the following being the scum:
xyl - vermillion mafia doctor
kmd - vermillion mafia roleblocker
nam - cerulean mafia goon

So... you think we have six town masons/neighbors and six scum? Seriously?

[roflcopter]

Also, answer this:

Possible, but not probable.

I'd put heavy money on if we lynched up my list the game would end before we got anywhere near Xyl.

i'd put heavy money on the following being the scum:
xyl - vermillion mafia doctor
kmd - vermillion mafia roleblocker
nam - cerulean mafia goon

So... you think we have six town masons/neighbors and six scum? Seriously?

yes

[Xylthixlm]

hey xyl, referring to a game where you were town doesn't make you town in this game

Do you remember why you thought I was scum in WIH2?

[Xylthixlm]

Also, answer this:

Possible, but not probable.

I'd put heavy money on if we lynched up my list the game would end before we got anywhere near Xyl.

i'd put heavy money on the following being the scum:
xyl - vermillion mafia doctor
kmd - vermillion mafia roleblocker
nam - cerulean mafia goon

So... you think we have six town masons/neighbors and six scum? Seriously?

yes

Are you completely insane?

[roflcopter]

hey xyl, referring to a game where you were town doesn't make you town in this game

Do you remember why you thought I was scum in WIH2?

you were sitting on your haunches not attacking anyone after being wrong some arbitrary number of times in a row

completely unrelated to why i'm attacking you in this game

trying to make me doubt my scum read on you now by referring to a game where my scum read on you was wrong rather than disproving anything i've said about you (which you haven't) just makes you look worse

[roflcopter]

neighbors are almost a detriment to the town. they certainly don't add anything to the town's basic power level. the entire town could be composes of neighbor pairs and i'd still think the setup was 3/3 scum teams.

[roflcopter]

i also fail to see the point of you pressing the issue of whether the setup is is 3/3 or 4/4, as you are scum in either scenario.

[Xylthixlm]

I thought I had addressed your case against me

It started with something about me being scum because I was selectively scumhunting because I wanted to lynch Wickedestjr instead of Hayker, as I recall

[roflcopter]

I thought I had addressed your case against me

It started with something about me being scum because I was selectively scumhunting because I wanted to lynch Wickedestjr instead of Hayker, as I recall

incorrect. you are entirely misrepresenting what i have said. try harder.