The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

ZazieR · Post Post #2975 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:16 pm

ZazieR wrote:Wrong. If the house must be destroyed to win, we lose.
It says ALL Evil characters. So if the house is one, we can't destroy all.

After thinking, this is incorrect.
If the Manor is an Evil character, we must destroy it to win. So if we don''t we can''t win. However, the Manor doesn''t seem to be a player. So if every other Evil character is destroyed, no town player will get killed.
So with the Manor not destroyed, but with every other Evil character killed, it''s a draw. If Setael is telling the truth, it''s possible for a draw.

ZazieR · Post Post #2976 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:18 pm

Stephoscope wrote:
ZazieR wrote:
Stephoscope wrote:Did the shotgun shell go poof at the end of the day? No. No it didn't.

The game may hang in the balance, and I can investigate Setael tonight if everyone insists--there's no way she should be the lynch. If she is town, there is no reason for her to be lying about the matches. If she is scum, WE CAN LYNCH HER TOMORROW.
You really haven't looked at my reasons why I think she's lying, now have you?
If she's lying, WE CAN LYNCH HER TOMORROW.

I have absolutely read everything you have posted...and I have found you to be consistently wrong.

Then state why my reasons for thinking that Setael is lying are invalid.

ZazieR · Post Post #2977 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:19 pm

Setael wrote:Dramonic's unvote actually makes me more sure he's scum. He knows I'm town and therefore knows I'm telling the truth. Scum don't want a draw. They want to win. IMO he's unvoting in hopes it will earn him town points when I flip town. At that point it will be impossible for town to win but it will be possible for scum to win rather than draw.

Why did you only point out Dramonic''s unvote out and not mine?

ZazieR · Post Post #2978 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:22 pm

Hohum wrote:
OP wrote: 7. Any items found during the day must be used BEFORE the lynch on that day
unless expressly stated in the item PM
that this is not the case. Items given/found during the night can be used at the player's discretion.

SOMEONE
is playing an angle here. If we lynch properly we'll find out who. It's pretty safe to say that Zaz is of opposite alignment of Steph and Setael.

I hadn''t looked at the full rule. The first part was all I cared about as I thought it was the case for each item.

ZazieR · Post Post #2979 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:30 pm

@Amished

Can you say how many players you ''protected'' N1 and D2 for that matter?

ZazieR · Post Post #2980 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:35 pm

Amished wrote:@Zaz: Something I posted 17 days ago, with me working 2 jobs and playing softball two nights a week kinda distracts me from anything that didn't happen in the last like 3 days. For my vote on you, I think your position that there's no power roles is utterly craptastic and is the only way you can try to push a lynch on somebody that you can't NK as you're still the only one going after Naomi. According to my own thoughts of two weeks ago, I thought that you might be scum with him (well, him with you) so either works for me.

As already stated, I''m going after Naomi in case there are powerroles. Other than that, she refuses to flavour claim (as she didn''t respond to it after I asked her a few times) and that the player who she has claimed to have investigated doesn''t make sense.
But if you disagree with what the rules state (aka the two rules I pointed out why I think there are no powerroles) state why.

ZazieR · Post Post #2981 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:38 pm

hohum wrote:
Unvote

It just occurred to me that there's a lot of people tying themselves to Setael's flip. Here's what I propose the proper course of action is, just to heir on the side of caution:

1) Lynch someone else tonight and let StephO investigate Setael
2) Lynch StephO tomorrow in order to confirm the investigation result

If at that point the investigation result is sound

3) Lynch ZazieR
4) Lynch Lamont

If the investigation result is not sound

3) Lynch Setael
4) Lynch Dramonic or Pyro next.

Are you setting up lynches now?
Also, where would Naomi be?

ZazieR · Post Post #2982 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Stephoscope wrote:
dramonic wrote:then what's your alternative? I'm not about to vote myself and it seems people don't want to lynch Rock for serving no purpose.

As for Zaz, she's mental, but I don't think she's scum.
My proposition, as I have mentioned several times, is to lynch you, then I investigate Setael (I hate to do this, because I think she's town, but I'll do it if need be), then keep going.

Wasn''t your plan to not state the one who you''d investigate/ had investigated?

Setael · Post Post #2983 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:11 am

I don't think we can draw lines so black and white re: my wagon since scum would not necessarily push for my lynch. My death just hurts the town, not the scum - they don't care if all the town can get is a draw; they'd still have to survive to actually win. Knowing I'd flip town I don't think scum would go after me like Lamont has. I think they'd be more like dramonic and zazier, unvoting to avoid too much suspicion and never really pushing my lynch that hard.

After this wagon, i think Lamont is town and zazier & dramonic are scum and maybe Tajo. I don't like how he was certain I was town but didn't even consider I might be telling the truth. Scum is, obviously, a lot more likely to forget who they have put on their townie list since it's all fabricated. It's possible a townie would do that though so I'm not sure about him. I'd prefer dramonic or zazier.

@amished - do you know when you will start having less protects? I do not think we should lynch stepho. Amished has to protect himself and me and at some point he won't be able to protect us AND stepho and the mafia will NK him. Even if they want to wifom us by not killing him they won't be able to afford the investigation results. Mafia's top priority right now will be convincing the town to lynch stepho. That's the last thing we should do.

I would certainly prefer an investigation of zaz or dramonic (whichever is alive) but I can see the usefulness in confirming me. Just seems like a waste when we could use it to find scum.

ZazieR · Post Post #2984 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:18 am

Setael wrote:I think they'd be more like dramonic and zazier, unvoting to avoid too much suspicion and never really pushing my lynch that hard.

Wrong. First of all, I was one of the first who pointed out how likely it is that you are lying. Secondly, I unvoted because I didn''t fell comfortable with you at L-1.
Also, if you are telling the truth (Which I''d know if I am scum) why wouldn''t I want to lynch you as it would sure I wouldn''t lose with my team?

Lamont_Cranston · Post Post #2985 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:26 am

Setael wrote:@amished - do you know when you will start having less protects?

Scum would love to know this.

Set wrote:Amished has to protect himself
and me
and at some point he won't be able to protect
us
them

Fixed. I don't think Amished should worry about protecting you. The matches will live on after you and besides there is no reason for him to protect scum.

Set wrote:I would certainly prefer an investigation of zaz or dramonic... Just seems like a waste when we could use it to find scum.

Right. I'm sure it does. If you live into the night (you shouldn't), you bet your QT username you'll be investigated and it won't be a waste either.

Lamont_Cranston · Post Post #2986 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:28 am

Moar Set votes please.

ZazieR · Post Post #2987 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:31 am

No, Naomi should be lynched.

Pyromaniac · Post Post #2988 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:55 am

No. Set should be lynched. A naomi lynch would get us more info, though.

ZazieR · Post Post #2989 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:58 am

I''ve shown two rules that show that there are very likely no powerroles.
If we lynch Naomi, we can test this. If she''s scum, we know that Amished and Stepho are so as well. In case she''s town, we still have the stronger roles alive.

Lamont_Cranston · Post Post #2990 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:11 am

The town needs to lynch Set and investigate Zaze. She is mad PR fishing.

ZazieR · Post Post #2991 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:12 am

Where am I PR fishing?

dramonic · Post Post #2992 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:16 am

Setael wrote:I think they'd be more like dramonic and zazier, unvoting to avoid too much suspicion and never really pushing my lynch that hard.

Err... I'm voting you right now, you know that?

Setael · Post Post #2993 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:23 am

unvote, vote: zazier

Post 2984 took you above dramonic on my scum list.

Your WIFOM condemns you. I'm certainly not saying scum would not support my lynch at all. I'm still a town lynch which they'd certainly prefer over a scum lynch. What I am saying is that scum don't automatically win if I die so they would not be willing to attract suspicion in exchange for my lynch. It would make more sense to support the wagon without being as over the top as Lamont. They wouldn't want to push it so hard that the town turns on them when I flip town and you find out I was telling the truth and the best we can get is a draw. I would think scum would be more forward thinking since they will still be able to play for a win at that point. This is exactly how you've been playing. I think you're scum.

Setael · Post Post #2994 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:25 am

@Lamont: give me the benefit of the doubt for one day. Lynch zaz and investigate me tonight.

Lamont_Cranston · Post Post #2995 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:27 am

LYNCH SET NOW!

[/b]

ZazieR · Post Post #2996 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:29 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:

LYNCH SET NOW!
[/b]

No, Naomi is the way to go.

Setael · Post Post #2997 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:29 am

As for the power roles, imo amished is confirmed by this matches garbage, as without a multiple-protect doc, there's no way the mod would rest the town's win condition on one person.

ZazieR · Post Post #2998 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:32 am

Setael wrote:
unvote, vote: zazier

Post 2984 took you above dramonic on my scum list.

Your WIFOM condemns you. I'm certainly not saying scum would not support my lynch at all. I'm still a town lynch which they'd certainly prefer over a scum lynch. What I am saying is that scum don't automatically win if I die so they would not be willing to attract suspicion in exchange for my lynch. It would make more sense to support the wagon without being as over the top as Lamont. They wouldn't want to push it so hard that the town turns on them when I flip town and you find out I was telling the truth and the best we can get is a draw. I would think scum would be more forward thinking since they will still be able to play for a win at that point. This is exactly how you've been playing. I think you're scum.

So because I think that the fake powerroles are more likely scum than you, I''m scum? Even you admit that you wouldn''t believe the claim if somebody else had made it. I''m scum for going after a player who''s more likely scum?
You are also saying that you want to live an extra day. If Naomi gets lynched and she''s town, that proves that Stepho is telling the truth and if he investigates you and he gets an Innocent result, you are save. I''d be giving the draw away. Tell me why I''d do that.

Also, based upon rules 3 and 13, do you think that there could be powerroles. A yes or a no is enough.

ZazieR · Post Post #2999 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

Setael wrote:As for the power roles, imo amished is confirmed by this matches garbage, as without a multiple-protect doc, there's no way the mod would rest the town's win condition on one person.

In other words, if Naomi is scum, we''ve got four scum caught. If Naomi is town, we have three confirmed players.
Still convinced that Naomi is the lynch for today.