Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Santos]

IMO, following strong players as a newbie is kinda smart and helps newbies get more knowledgeable in mafia.

Quoted for fucking truth because its certainly helped me out.

[SensFan]

Alright, that's it.

Mod: Replace me. I won't play in any game in which I need to put up with the abuse Santos has given me in this one, especially when he also broke the rules and contacted me outside the thread.

I apologize to the Mod and the other players, and will do my best to find a replacement.

[Santos]

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to back up your reason to vote me.

[Santos]

What a sob train. Well, since doing rereads tends to help a lot:

Of course Scum can be wrong. But if Santos is genuinely wrong about this (and I think he is), then its

not a sign

of him being Scum.

is this my 'confirmation bias' like from the other game, Sens? :p

Sens: Can you give the best example of what you're taslking about in regard to Santos.

Newb game. 5 players alive, LyLo. I faked a Guilty on him. All he did was:

*Claim in every single post that I must be Scum, since "Cops don't get Guilty results on Townies in Newb games"
*Admit that he was purposefully spin-doctoring and making everything I say look scummier than it was, in an attempt to get me lynched
*Claim in every single post that I must be Scum, since "Cops don't get Guilty results on Townies in Newb games"
*Not even attempt to defend against any case I made against him
*Claim in every single post that I must be Scum, since "Cops don't get Guilty results on Townies in Newb games"

Luckily for him, I was lynched because my partner decided to bus, and the other IC saw 'pro-Town reactions' from Santos. Post-game, he refused to listen that he might have been wrong, since 'it worked, so I beat you, Sens, admit it'.

Sens, you're right.
How come you left out the part where Sotty was trying to get me to learn how to build up a proper defense and use it against your cop claim against me? As it turned out, I managed to get something instead of the rant you purposefully posted without including the rest of the details. Why would you withhold all the information to explain my actions to someone when you could have just said here's the link, Empking, make your own conclusions. But as it appears, Empking is trusting SensFan's post on my meta as opposed to just looking for himself. WHHHHHHYYYY? It was a Newbie game too, fyi, and Sens was also caught for not scumhunting and advocating lynches on townies because he 'couldn't care less.'

So since we're both right and both wrong about things pertaining to that game, Sens, can we please drop the meta and focus on what we have here? You too Empking, if you're so damned interested in finding something out, then do the research yourself you lazy couch potato :p

Vote: Santos

Combination of gut and policy.

my post in response to Sen's reason to vote me.

I won't play in any game in which I need to put up with the

abuse

Santos has given me in this one

So his first post towards me says I'm probably not scum. Later his vote towards me is 'gut' and 'policy' which I used evidence of meta to call him out on his own game.

Who is the one that started it, backed themselves into a corner they now realize they didn't want to get into, and quit the game and not having the spine to defend themselves? You started this 'abuse' in this game, I ended it. I'm glad you're gone Sens, but I feel bad for your replacement.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, despite all that's happened, I definitely cannot tell if Sens is scum or town and we were just having a huge war to prove or disprove anything.

I still want to keep my vote on Vino, but during my reread of the above I also saw a lot of people against Tajo and the silent speaker that makes them look a lot more suspicious.

[Mufasa]

dude santos shut up... it doesnt help to beat a dead carcass or kick someone when there down.

I find vino scummy for rolefishing when I clearly gave enough information to softclaim a town pr.

vote: Vino

i do believe santos should be mod killed

[/i]

[Fishythefish]

Korlash, I think I understand your angle, but your stalwart defense of Percy's slip in trying to make your point has reflected poorly on you.

Paraphrase: “Korlash, your defense of Percy is a reasonable one. However, if you continue it you look scummy. So stop.”

Could you explain to me the purpose of this paraphrase? I think I know what you mean, but I'd rather be sure.

I think Vino was trying to get Korlash to stop his fair defense of Percy, and discredit said defense, by telling him it looked scummy.

Tar's meta of me is accurate in the "ordered" regard, and my post explains rather than denies this.

[hasdgfas]

huge

FOS: Mufasa

mentioning that you think someone is modkilled is extremely anti-town and scummy.

[Tzeentch]

Mod: If Santos is remaining in the game, please replace me.

I cannot play in a game with a player with an attitude like Santos' - it is actively driving me away from reading the thread.

[Gorrad]

As three people have said they would rather be replaced than play with Santos, I'm making a mod ruling I hoped I wouldn't have to make. As of now, Santos is no longer in the game. A replacement will be found ASAP.

[Mufasa]

Thank you gorrad.

hasdgfas I only stated that because I didn't like the way santos was treating fellow players.

[Vino]

First off, I don't know what the big deal about Santos is. He's obnoxious but this is the internet people. I would think you'd be a little more thick-skinned. Tzeentch, that was the fifth post you've made in this game and none of them have had substance. You're lurking and you're complaining about another player's behavior?

Concerning what happened, it would have evoked a vote from me on SensFan, but two other players expressed problems so it would be unfair.

This is outright rolefishing. Mufasa volunteered the information that he was surprised that an action of his was not resolved. Clearly, he did this knowing what he was doing, and equally clearly it’s a softclaim of a town PR. Making him firm this claim up is of no use and is potentially harmful.

I apparently didn't get the memo that softclaiming is a pro-town tactic. Are you saying you actually believe him? And how is it role fishing if he's outed himself? There are scum protection roles, and there's also the possibility that he's lying. I think town needs to know which it is. He didn't need to post this issue in the thread. Also none of the questions I asked said anything about claiming or revealing information about his role, in fact I believe I specifically asked him not to do that.

Paraphrase: “Korlash, your defense of Percy is a reasonable one. However, if you continue it you look scummy. So stop.”

No. More like my way of saying

FoS: Korlash

. How do you read that it's me trying to get him to do something? Saying something "reflects poorly on you" doesn't mean "stop doing it." It means it looks scummy. What if I say that trying to put words in my mouth reflects poorly on you?

I didn't think about a double attack when I first posted that I thought the mod made a mistake. But now I am trying to find out why my protection didnt go through.

This isn't your first game on this site. You know how night actions work. You know that some of them can fail. The moderator has all of the information and is unlikely to make a mistake, and even if he does, what is your reasoning for complaining about it in the thread? Why not keep it private between you and the moderator?

[Mufasa]

Vino people were concerned we were lacking good useful Townie PR's so that was part of my reasoning.

[Fishythefish]

I apparently didn't get the memo that softclaiming is a pro-town tactic. Are you saying you actually believe him? And how is it role fishing if he's outed himself? There are scum protection roles, and there's also the possibility that he's lying. I think town needs to know which it is. He didn't need to post this issue in the thread. Also none of the questions I asked said anything about claiming or revealing information about his role, in fact I believe I specifically asked him not to do that.

He outed himself as some kind of PR. If he's scum, he has a claim prepared, if he's town, it's best not to out the details. In either case, forcing a full claim is not beneficial to the town, and is potentially harmful. This has no bearing on whether or not I believe him (actually, I really don't know whether or not his is telling the truth). None of the questions you asked said anything about claiming? You said "I demand an explanation". What form did you expect that explanation to take, without revealing role information??

No. More like my way of saying

FoS: Korlash

. How do you read that it's me trying to get him to do something? Saying something "reflects poorly on you" doesn't mean "stop doing it." It means it looks scummy. What if I say that trying to put words in my mouth reflects poorly on you?

Adressing someone directly, telling them what they are doing "reflects poorly on them", is clearly giving them a reason to stop. Your tone reads more like advising Korlash to stop his defenses than fossing him, particularly "I think I understand your angle but...". For me, your post is far more about building the Percy wagon than attacking Korlash.

[Vino]

forcing a full claim

... is not what I'm trying to do. Look at the questions I asked him. I did not ask him to claim.

Adressing someone directly, telling them what they are doing "reflects poorly on them", is clearly giving them a reason to stop.

So's FoS'ing and IGMEOY'ing. So what?

Vino people were concerned we were lacking good useful Townie PR's so that was part of my reasoning.

This doesn't really answer my questions. Nobody was concerned about that. Obviously we lost the cops but nobody said "Crap now there are no town PR's," so I don't really buy this explanation. I don't see a pro-town reason to make an unprovoked soft-claim for no reason.

Why is nobody else concerned about this?

[Fishythefish]

... is not what I'm trying to do. Look at the questions I asked him. I did not ask him to claim.

Unvote, Vote Mufasa

I demand an explanation.

This is the post I object to. I ask again- what did you expect this explanation to consist of, if not role information?

I think your way of criticising Korlash is deliberately passive, and the focus is on getting him to abandon his defense of the Percy wagon, rather than actually accusing him.

[Mufasa]

people were concerned our prs were doing crap work.

[Santos]

I concede to the replacement ruling. However, I feel I needed to say what I said because SensFan tarnished my name for other games to join on a technicality that I tried to handle outside the game instead of bringing it here.

/out

[hasdgfas]

First off, I don't know what the big deal about Santos is. He's obnoxious but this is the internet people. I would think you'd be a little more thick-skinned.

game attacks are not the same as personal attacks. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Personal attacks are anything but fun.

people were concerned our prs were doing crap work.

And how does claiming with no reason help that?

[Mufasa]

^ just lets them know they are working.

[Vino]

This is the post I object to. I ask again- what did you expect this explanation to consist of, if not role information?

An

explanation

not a

claim

. When did I ever say I wanted a claim? Never. The persistence with which you're trying to frame me as role fishing is starting to look scummy.

I hope to get information the same way one would expect to get information from any player when one drills them on a scummy action. Kinda like what's happening now, even if it is being dragged out of him. Mufasa, more than one line in a response would be helpful.

I think your way of criticising Korlash is deliberately passive, and the focus is on getting him to abandon his defense of the Percy wagon, rather than actually accusing him.

If you think this then we have a fundamental misunderstanding on what my goals were when talking to Korlash about Percy. For most of it I just wanted to understand his point of view. I never told him what to do, only what I think of him. It's no different than an FoS or IGMEYO.

hascow

, I don't condone personal attacks, but I've seen many game attacks turn into personal attacks rather quickly. The game can get very personal. I've seen it in games I've been in and games I've read, players flat out calling other players "retarded" and "you should never play mafia again" and so on. I confess regrettably I've done it myself. While Santos actions were unacceptable, it's not as bad as others I've seen, and I haven't seen this kind of reaction from it before. SensFan in particular I wouldn't have expected so strong a reaction from, especially when I've seen him be the cause of other players asking to be replaced, he didn't seem so sensitive when the tables were in the other direction.

[SerialClergyman]

But I need Gorrad to read his inbox pronto thanks.

people were concerned our prs were doing crap work.
^ just lets them know they are working.

They look like different motivations to me. Was the softclaim to stand up for yourself about people who were concerned or because you had a genuine worry about what your claimed role did or didn't do?

[Fishythefish]

An

explanation

not a

claim

. When did I ever say I wanted a claim? Never. The persistence with which you're trying to frame me as role fishing is starting to look scummy.

This response is not an answer to the post you quote. You didn't ask for a claim, and I haven't said you did. But you haven't answered my question: what form did you expect Mufasa's explanation to take? Rolefishing is rarely someone saying "what is your role?", and the fact that you didn't say you wanted a claim doesn't mean you didn't want one. As far as I can see, any explanation of Mufasa's actions would include more role information, and your demand for one is therefore rolefishing.

[Tarhalindur]

Hmm. I had a brainstorm.

Mufasa, please claim the flavor behind your protection. (Not the your role name, not the comic you come from, just the paraphrased flavor for how you are able to protect people from death.)

As an aside, I'm seriously considering massclaim here.

[Vino]

what form did you expect Mufasa's explanation to take?

I have to spell it out for you?

people were concerned our prs were doing crap work.
^ just lets them know they are working.

This is what I want, and it's what I'm getting, albeit I wish he were more verbose. I also wanted posts like 595 and 592 where other players are analyzing Mufasa and asking him questions about why he claimed, because I think it was a very scummy move and it requires more attention. I think you're fixated on role

fishing

because you are indeed

Fishy

the

fish

.

Tar, why on

earth

would you even consider a massclaim at D2? Maybe you have a big theory in your head about who is scum and the mass claim can confirm it, but there are still 21 players alive, 19 of which have not claimed, and I'm not even sure that

you

aren't scum. I don't see how it can benefit town.

[delathi]

Hmm. I had a brainstorm.

Mufasa, please claim the flavor behind your protection. (Not the your role name, not the comic you come from, just the paraphrased flavor for how you are able to protect people from death.)

What is that likely to help? He's claimed a protective role?
I would think that a role name would be a more useful revelation, if for no other reason than there is a chance that he fake claims someone already out there.

As an aside, I'm seriously considering massclaim here.

On day two?