Mini 817: Chosen (Game Over!)

[TDC]

I do think that the lists have value even though Nuwen was in the other game. Unless Nuwen was scum in this game her being in the other game doesn't change anything at all. Even if Nuwen was scum (and Raivann is now) the four players that Raivann lists will give us information later on to look at when determining if he was trying to manipulate us.

If we lynch someone we're pretty sure is not the Chosen (based on being hard to lynch) and that person ends up actually being the Chosen, I think it would point into Nuwen's direction.
Of course anyone could've read along with that game (or perhaps come to that conclusion without doing so), but she was actually there.
At least, it would rather speak against a scum team consisting of two relative newbies.

[Herodotus]

I just went back and checked. My question about that other game was different -- it was a question of the Chosen knowing who they were. (Which would break the setup because the town could just lynch all the vanillas.)

Troll is right. If we were to simply NoLynch repeatedly, we'd eventually get to 2 vs. 2. Even if the mafia claimed at that point, it would be a coin flip.

unvote

vote: Ash

[Zorblag]

If we lynch someone we're pretty sure is not the Chosen (based on being hard to lynch) and that person ends up actually being the Chosen, I think it would point into Nuwen's direction.
Of course anyone could've read along with that game (or perhaps come to that conclusion without doing so), but she was actually there.
At least, it would rather speak against a scum team consisting of two relative newbies.

If we're going to try to win we have to lynch someone at some point. There is a danger that we'll get it wrong and lynch the chosen but that's why I'm saying we should both spend today trying to figure out who is least likely to be the chosen and lynch who among them is the most scummy. In 780 I know that Nuwen was town and I recall that on day one of the game she advocated playing the game as though it were mountainous. I was hoping that she would respond to my questions as that would have given me more information to work with about her reactions to the setup before and after having been in it a while.

I think that the best play for the mafia would have been to exclude those that were least likely to be lynched given how they play in other games; I have to start somewhere and I know that were I making the decision that would be my primary deciding factor. There is WIFOM to be taken into account but if the mafia were pretty sure they could get someone lynched I think that would overwhelm anything else they might use when making their decision especially as the setup is as new as it is.

If we do end up lynching the chosen then we'll have to make a careful evaluation of the entire state of the game. It could be that Raivann, as Nuwen's replacement, will be the most suspect at that time but I think it will depend a fair amount on what has gone down since then.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BloodCovenent]

I'm currently seeking replacements for both Archon.

Saw that coming.

I have to say, that i think a no lynch is a horrible idea. Because if scum made it both to lylo(?) then as soon as a townie voted for someone, scum would just jump on the wagon.

anyways. Here is my list. based on original characters.

Archon

- keep - kubrick, replaced out day 1 (as scum). Can't say I didn't see it coming

AshMC1984

- keep - kubrick, played a pro-town role, mediocre-ly

BloodCovenent

- one cool cat!

ClockworkRuse

- exclude - never played with before, have no experience with, would have been harder to read at the moment.

MiteyMouse

- exclude - never played with before, have no experience with, would have been harder to read at the moment.

nadroj15

- keep - Never played with before, don't know the play style.

Nuwen

- exclude - Has a decent amount of experience in MS, more than me.

Papa Zito

- exclude - Currently in 95 with him, he played very well, and even earned a NK day 1.

TDC

- keep - Never played with before, no experience with him.

[Herodotus]

BloodCovenent, how do ClockworkRuse and MiteyMouse differ from nadroj15 there?

[Zorblag]

BloodCovenent, how about afatchic instead of ClockworkRuse if that's who the mafia had to look at?

Also, your endgame scenario there isn't quite right. If we've still got the chosen in the last four players then the mafia have to lynch them and cannot lynch the other townie or we lose. Knowing how the dynamics for this game works is going to be vital for everyone that ends up in endgame so I want to make sure everyone is clear on what could happen.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[TDC]

BloodCovenent, how do ClockworkRuse and MiteyMouse differ from nadroj15

and TDC

there?

Seconded.

[hohum]

This is the last time this setup will be run in a 9P format without some major changes, so I would appreciate it if you guys would just play the game instead of using the mechanics to figure out a breaking strategy. I'm going to revoke the ability to no-lynch for this reason Please note the rule change accordingly.

[Papa Zito]

Herodotus, do you have any experience with Papa Zito? Same question in reverse to Papa Zito.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

We've not played together yet.

Posting explosion is awesome. I'm actually having to catch up in a game. Sweet.

[Papa Zito]

No lynch = no fun. Basically the Chosen is just an extra scum-loss mechanic. Since lynching the Chosen doesn't guarantee the town a loss, I'd just ignore that he/she even exists. I still like the lists though, it's good to get in people's heads.

If we've still got the chosen in the last four players then the mafia have to lynch them and cannot lynch the other townie or we lose.

ORLY

[Zorblag]

If we've still got the chosen in the last four players then the mafia have to lynch them and cannot lynch the other townie or we lose.

ORLY

No, not really, I said that wrong. The mafia have to lynch the townie who isn't the chosen. If they don't then we win. I could also have been intending to write they lose but I don't remember. It's a slip and I apologize for the confusion. Make of it what you will.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BloodCovenent]

No, not really, I said that wrong. The mafia have to lynch the townie who isn't the chosen. If they don't then we win. I could also have been intending to write they lose but I don't remember. It's a slip and I apologize for the confusion. Make of it what you will.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I Understood what you meant. The scum must lynch the chosen one in order to win, correct? And that might be difficult. So what happens if it comes down to two scum and 1 townie after that day lynch?

No lynch = no fun. Basically the Chosen is just an extra scum-loss mechanic. Since lynching the Chosen doesn't guarantee the town a loss, I'd just ignore that he/she even exists. I still like the lists though, it's good to get in people's heads.

I Tried to convince all the players in a vengeful mafia game to no lynch to day 100. (3 VT's, 1 GF mafia, 1 Mafia goon) Would have been epic.

BloodCovenent, how do ClockworkRuse and MiteyMouse differ from nadroj15 there?

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

[Zorblag]

I Understood what you meant. The scum must lynch the chosen one in order to win, correct? And that might be difficult. So what happens if it comes down to two scum and 1 townie after that day lynch?

13. The Chosen One can't be Nightkilled or Endgamed; it can only be lynched while there are still townies alive.

If it's just the chosen and the mafia then the chosen can't be lynched and the town wins is my interpretation. If it was one non-chosen townie and two mafia then the mafia would win.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Raivann]

I want to hear from Raivann regarding Nuwen's opinions. Do you agree or disagree with them?

I agree with them.
Seems to me she was scumhunting
As for the whole discussion of 'overblown accusations' i could agree that the're somewhat overblown, but I think it's a good thing in RVS to get some reactions and what not.

I've never played a complete game w/any of you guys. But if i had to pick 4 to exclude from being the CO I guess I would pick the most level headed influential players?

[Herodotus]

@Troll:
No, you were right the first time. The mafia need to lynch the Chosen.

So what happens if it comes down to two scum and 1 townie after that day lynch?

Chosen + (1 or 2) Mafia = Town win
1 or 2 VT's + 2 Mafia = Mafia win
1 VT + 1 Mafia = Mafia win
0 Mafia = Town win

@Mod:
My apologies. I hope you understand that I did not intend to attempt to break the setup when I joined the game.

[TDC]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

[Zorblag]

@Troll:
No, you were right the first time. The mafia need to lynch the Chosen.

Did I ever say anything other than that? If so I didn't mean to.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BloodCovenent]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

Not sure, was just going down the list, didn't really research anyone's games or anything. I've heard that you were a relatively pro-town player. I'd rather have players in the keep category that were known to be clumsy and make mistakes, or ones that i have no knowledge about.

[Zorblag]

Where did you hear about TDC's play?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Herodotus]

No, not really, I said that wrong.

The mafia have to lynch the townie who isn't the chosen.

If they don't then we win.

Not that this slight misstatement really matters. I'm pretty sure the endings in post 164 are a complete list of all possible endings.

So, now that it's settled that we will be playing properly, and Raivann has answered my question, this is my current theory of the game:

(Not an official VC)

2

Herodotus

:

TDC

,

Raivann

1

AshMC1984

:

Herodotus

1 BloodCovenent: afatchic
0 afatchic:
1 MiteyMouse: BloodCovenent
0 Zorblag:
1 Raivann:

Papa Zito

2

Papa Zito

: MiteyMouse,

AshMC1984

0

TDC

:
1 Not Voting: Zorblag

(Not an official VC)

One scum on each of the two wagons that have multiple votes fits nicely, but that was something I didn't even notice until after I made this chart.

[BloodCovenent]

Where did you hear about TDC's play?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Cateraction, Real life friend of mine. He tends to read up on old games and such. I told him that I was in this game, i mentioned a few of the player names that stuck out to me, he mentioned his thoughts. Both of us tend to talk a lot about mafia games that we play in (not ones when we're playing together though). In case your wondering, "why were we talking about players," we talk about other peoples play styles and such, and fill each other in with what-not. We just really enjoy the game, he was the one that showed me the site, we're also going to try and mod a game together in the future.

[Zorblag]

Well crap, my correction of my correction still wasn't right. Again, sorry for the confusion. I need to stop drinking or start being more careful with my posts.

Herodotus, why are Papa Zito and TDC apparently confirmed townie for you?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Raivann, I'd like to hear what your list of the four most level headed influential players out of the list I gave is in that case.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Herodotus]

@BC: I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to get advice from anyone about your ongoing games, even if they're not playing in the same game as you. Not that I'm assuming that's what you meant; just wanted to put that out there so you've heard it.

Herodotus, why are Papa Zito and TDC apparently confirmed townie for you?

They're not confirmed, but I lack the artistic talent to choose a color that expresses my degree of belief.

In PZ's case, it's mostly because of page 2. I love page 2 tells. Page 4 helped, too. Also, he's been attacked by both Ash and Nuwen.

In TDC's case, I'm not as confident. But posts 131 and 156 look relatively good.

[Zorblag]

Herodotus, do you think that AshMC1984 is less likely to be the chosen one than Nuwen would have been? The answer to this should be obvious but I'll ask anyhow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh