Mini 816: Revenge of the Monkey(GAME OVER!)

[Sajin]

SC is actively scum hunting. While using a theory argument is a weak argument I do not see it as scummy.

Devestation has not actively scum hunted and only posts are defensive imo. I think its a far better suspect to pursue.

Dramonic, can you tell me 2 people you think are town and why?

[StrangerCoug]

I just realized that I only counted the posts before my #19 in isolation when disproving that that post was the only time I brought up Devestation, but I feel that's disproof enough

[dramonic]

Well, we have a lot of lurky players, which annoys me a lot (SB, Regfan, Adam, Snake, Ryan and a bit you too)

It's hard to get reads on people who've posted like... 5 times in the game. I can't analyse well on such low content.

As to answer more correctly Sajin, my highest and only real pro-town vibe right now is Charlatan. I know he's been up my (perfectly toned) ass in his last few posts, but I think the way he pushes for people to add contain instead of going "he's not being useful, therefore he is scum"

SC has provided a bit of content on others, but mostly tunneled onto Charter for the most of day 1. It's not bad per se, but it REALLY isn't great.

The others who posted a decent amount are me, Charter, Konowa and Dev

I find Dev neutral, maybe slightly townish

Konowa I have mixed feelings. He's been buddying a lot with Charter, defending him and reformulating what he says to make him appear more town. slight scum vibe

Charter is my no.1 scum right now. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he just jumps on the highest wagon. After being called out on jumping on SB, he jumped to the second highest, Dev. It's a miracle he hasn't jumped on SC yet. <<

[Konowa]

Dramonic:

Please point out where I am 'reformulating' what charter is saying.

Instead of being vague, why do you find Devestation neutral, slightly townish?

[dramonic]

Konowa, ISO 4 and 5

About Dev, he's neutral slightly town because he hasn't done a lot in the game but did point out a few good points (Quickwagons being bad for the town) and trying to prevent a quicklynch/ridiculous wagon on SB.

[Konowa]

I had a feeling that that is what you were referencing. How is objectively stating what happened 'reformulating' anything?

Let me see if I understand this. You are giving Devestation town points because he agrees with your theory on bandwagons and that he tried to prevent a random stage wagon on Scott?

[dramonic]

You are reformulating what he said in his steed, effectively allowing him to not have to explain himself.

And you are partially misunderstanding me. what makes him get town points his him trying to prevent the idiotic quicklynch that could have occured in the RVS. The fact he agrees with me is just a side-effect (since if he didn't agree he probably wouldn't have tried to prevent the quicklynch)

[Konowa]

I take that as two different things. By reformulating, I take it to mean that you think I am changing the wording and adding my subjective view. That is not what happened at all. I restated objectively what occurred because I believed that Snake mis-repped what happened.

That "could have occurred". We do not know what would or would not have happened. However, we are delving back into theory again. Random stage wagons are bound to happen and try to deflate one without letting it garner any attention or let anyone respond to it is scummy.

[dramonic]

considering it was at l-3, I don't think it was in need of more momentum. If Dev had tried to "deflate" a wagon at like, l-5, then I'd agree.

[Konowa]

Where do I mention momentum? That is not what I am talking about at all. Four votes in random stage is hardly worth getting worked up about.

Let me rephrase.

Devestation called for people to unvote, before anyone could give an opinion and/or take stance on this wagon. That is what I find scummy.

[dramonic]

I see, I don't consider that particularly scummy though.

Well, now that we're clear on that, if one of the 5 lurkers could post something analysis worth... considering their ridiculously low amount of posts, they better have good cases coming up.

[Konowa]

@Mod - Mass prods and/or replace please.

---

I see, I don't consider that particularly scummy though.

But it makes you give Devestation town points ?

[Snake]

Sorry, been busy with work. Not much to say though since it's pretty much the same as last time I posted.

It seems that back and forth with Charlatan and dramonic was pretty pointless. Dramonic said that he doesn't find anyone particularly scummy and charlatan was all over him because he's "not committing". Dramonics explanation was enough and there wasn't much reason to try and condemn him for something he admitted to. There's only been a few pages worth of actual discussion, so I'm not surprised he doesn't find anyone particularly scummy. Give it time and then it'll become a big deal, but until then...

That said, when he made the easy semi-random vote on Scott, I fully expected scum to jump on him for an easy early mislynch target.

So you know it'll be a mislynch?

A lot of this theory about how scum will be in the tail of the wagon is shaky. If the scum is any intelligent, they'll let the newb players be the tail of said wagon to put suspicion on them instead.

^This is exactly what I've been saying. Only stupid scum would actually quick hammer, which makes me suspect anyone who has said they would want a quicklynch.

Was anybody talking about me? Was anybody saying "vote charter, wagon"? No. Where do you come up with these pointless questions? The answer is no, you shouldn't discount the possibility.

So you think that that question was pointless? Why were you asking pointless questions then?

And do you have anything to back this up? I just showed a bunch of examples how they're beneficial for town, are you ignoring them?

It doesn't matter how many you show that helped town. The second you showed the one you the won game as scum, that's when all the reasons to bandwagon went down the drain.

Yeah, 9 times out of 10 bandwagons are good, especially in the RVS. I guess they can be bad, but I can't recall a game I've ever been in where town quickhammered town on a wagon. I only remember scum quickhammering town.

Did you know about 98% of statistics are made up on the spot? Anyway, bandwagoning can only be good in RVS because that's the only time you don't have opinions on anybody. If you were to try that during Day 3, you'd probably be lynched because that's not the time to take risks.

NO ONE has ever attacked that much over something so trivial, which is why I think those that are doing it are scummy.

That's just ta coincidence because it's common knowledge that bandwagoning is a classic scumtell.

[AdamNW]

How is this game 7 pages in and only on day 1?

[Konowa]

*headdesk*

[Devestation]

Calling to unvote was my stance, Konowa.

And when I post, I just defend AND scumhunt at the same time. When I'm not constantly having to defend my own actions I will think more about the actions of others.

[Sajin]

How is this game 7 pages in and only on day 1?

Thats how many games go. Care to place an opinion on anyone?

[Konowa]

@Devestation: Can you point out where you have been scum-hunting this game? From what I can read you have only been commenting on what has been happening around you. Who do you think is scum?

Also if calling to unvote was

your

stance, why do you say in your iso 5 that you were talking to the bandwagoners?

[StrangerCoug]

How is this game 7 pages in and only on day 1?

It's rare for Day 1 to end before page 15 or so. Scumhunt rather than worrying about it still being Day 1.

[charlatan]

It seems that back and forth with Charlatan and dramonic was pretty pointless. Dramonic said that he doesn't find anyone particularly scummy and charlatan was all over him because he's "not committing". Dramonics explanation was enough and there wasn't much reason to try and condemn him for something he admitted to.

You're pretty much wrong, but it's cool. There's much to be gained from stirring the water and gauging the reactions of others, and I wasn't making things up from thin air. I had (have) every reason to want to get a better read on dramonic, since he has defended a player I find scummy (Devastation) without stating facts to back it up, has mostly avoided scumhunting (but cast vague suspicions to appear more involved than he is), etc. Meanwhile, he also says things like this, from his eighth post in isolation:

We've gotten some conversation going, why are there still so many different lynch candidate?

It's hard to claim you can't get reads on people because it's too early and there's not enough meat yet, and to simultaneously push people towards being quicker about forming their bandwagons.

So, what's the point of the first paragraph of your post? Does my ("pointless") scumhunting make me more or less likely to be scum? Or dramonic? I'm typically suspicious of players who just sort of regurgitate what's happened recently, since it's a good way to fill some post space without actually saying anything.

That said, when he made the easy semi-random vote on Scott, I fully expected scum to jump on him for an easy early mislynch target.

So you know it'll be a mislynch?

Oh, damn! You got me! Epic slip-up!

No, I don't know if it'll be a mislynch or not. Since I'm talking about a hypothetical in which scum are pouncing, I was assuming such for the sake of the post. Of course, if charter were scum, I wouldn't expect townies to grab on to that vote and stick with it for the entire day, because I think it's basically a disastrous thing to try and build a case from. But, from a scum perspective, it's a good thing to anchor in from the beginning since it was an ill-placed vote.

Honestly, it's silly, the weight this thing is being given. In case I haven't been loud enough on the record: anyone who thinks it's a valid concern that Scott might've suddenly got three additional votes placed on him before we could derail a baseless wagon is sorely out of touch with reality. Anyone building a case on the assumption that charter was pushing for a quicklynch is probably scummy.

^This is exactly what I've been saying. Only stupid scum would actually quick hammer, which makes me suspect anyone who has said they would want a quicklynch.

Who said they want a quicklynch? Provide quotes, please.

Anyway, bandwagoning can only be good in RVS because that's the only time you don't have opinions on anybody.

This implies that you do think bandwagons can be a source of gaining information or helping to draw opinions. It would be useful to me to know for sure whether you do, in fact, believe this. Bandwagons can be helpful in getting reads on players: yes or no?

That's just ta coincidence because it's common knowledge that bandwagoning is a classic scumtell.

Trying to start or control a bandwagon can often be a scumtell, but it a) it isn't necessarily and b) simply voting on one is not. Townies run up bandwagons on folks to see what they do when they're in the hot seat all the time, and it's often effective (especially Day 1). This appeal to common knowledge is not legit.

[dramonic]

People are more likely to talk and slip under pressure, but right now with all the lurkers we can't even havev 4 players on one wagon, it's a bit ridiculous.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ryan, Devestation, and ScottBrosius are being prodded

and I am looking for a replacement for Regfan

[MonkeyMan576]

Pim

is replacing

Regfan

[Pim]

replacement has been found
Hi everyone.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count
With 12 playing, it requires 7 to lynch

Devestation(3) - Sajin, Ryan2754, charter
StrangerCoug(3) - charlatan, Scott Brosius, Konowa
Charter(2) - dramonic, StrangerCoug
Scott Brosius(1) - AdamNW
Snake(1) - Ryan2754
Pim(1) - Snake
Ryan2754(1) - Pim